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Old 09-08-2016, 07:04 PM   #29
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Hi Ray, I bought a Super Duty turbo diesel in March of 2013. It is one complex machine. I admire all the technology in the drive train. The dang thing has reverse flow heads, turbo in the Vee, over 60 sensors, 11 coolers, 29000 psi direct fuel injection, variable vane turbo, and a virtual "oil refinery" for an exhaust system. We pull our 34 foot Limited with it. The Limited weighs in at about 8000 pounds and the truck is very similar in weight. We find the Super Duty quite comfortable for long distance traveling. We have about 43000 miles on it. I have experienced no defects or warranty claims, knock on wood.

We average about 12 to 13 mpg while towing at 65. We do closer to 13 in the great plains and closer to 12 in the higher elevations and mountains of Colorado area. My old E-350 V-10 van did 10 mpg towing, so we did experience an efficiency improvement. The engine braking through the turbo is very nice here in the mountains.

The main reason I picked Ford is our family history with the brand, staying with Ford even after the Navistar "six oh" debacle. I fully realize there are many very good trucks out there to choose from. Ain't it great!

But like you mention, the maintenance costs are higher and the fuel cost is higher. You have to have a good reason for a heavy duty diesel. The best reasons are lots of miles and lots of work needing done. I don't see many over the road trucks with gas engines.

Overall, we are happy with the Super Duty turbo diesel. I bought it figuring it is my last tow vehicle considering my "advanced years". It ought to outlast me! That's the plan.

David
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Old 09-08-2016, 08:09 PM   #30
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Tundra towing in mountains

To: Ray E & Meeks:
I bought the same Tundra Meeks has, 2014 5.7L, 1794 edition CrewMax, but have not towed in the mountains yet. Tell me if I am right......I always use the Tow Haul regardless of where I am towing. When going up the mountain I should let the trans shift as needed. When going down the mountain I should again let the trans shift down by itself or should I set the trans on 5 or 4 or 3, depending on the grade, and shift down further as needed to save on braking?? I don't understand the book; it doesn't explain the down shifting for towing down hill?? Does the Tow Haul assist the trans on shifting down when on a down hill grade?? Thanks for your help!
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Old 09-08-2016, 08:18 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by sheriff1 View Post
Caution: dodge owners lie about mpg...


2015 F350 CC 4X4 6.7 Diesel
2010 27FB Silver Cloud "The Silver Spoon"
My 1985 Dodge with a 1991.5 Cummins gets at least 68 MPG and 102 MPG while towing.

On the other hand, my Ram gets 21.something overall (still not broke in) and will dip to 17.something after I tow a good distance. Dodge doesn't make pickups anymore.

I am too lazy to even make the VIC track my trip milage, let alone to hand calculate.

I am in the mindset of put diesel in the truck, go play, burn up the diesel, and then repeat. Forget the loss MPG when making in-town runs with any of new diesels, the bigger cost to bear is the wear and tear on the clean diesel system. I try to only start my new truck if I am going to actually drive somewhere. If not, I steal the wife's rig, walk, or ride a bike, but I mostly use my old diesel. The start and stop and engine run/off cycles are hard on the waterpump and other parts, but those repairs are cheaper than dealer work on the emissions system of the new one because the parts are readily at our local parts store and my labor only costs a couple cold ones.

Go team diesel!
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Old 09-09-2016, 06:56 AM   #32
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boy you are spot on about the lower door seals, worse than terrible. They collect dirt, sand and grit and are a pain to keep clean, have no idea what Ford was thinking about it that design..
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:07 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingLink5 View Post
To: Ray E & Meeks:
I bought the same Tundra Meeks has, 2014 5.7L, 1794 edition CrewMax, but have not towed in the mountains yet. Tell me if I am right......I always use the Tow Haul regardless of where I am towing. When going up the mountain I should let the trans shift as needed. When going down the mountain I should again let the trans shift down by itself or should I set the trans on 5 or 4 or 3, depending on the grade, and shift down further as needed to save on braking?? I don't understand the book; it doesn't explain the down shifting for towing down hill?? Does the Tow Haul assist the trans on shifting down when on a down hill grade?? Thanks for your help!
Yes.
Tow/haul all the time-
When on a long downhill grade shift into manual mode and then 4, 3, or 2 depending on the grade and speed.
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:58 AM   #34
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Seems like all the safety items point to the diesel. Higher payload so no overloading, engine braking for safety, and power to spare just in case which happens frequently.
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Old 09-09-2016, 09:29 AM   #35
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Hi Ray:

Our 2015 F350 6.7 Diesel short bed crew runs like a chap, 30,000 miles almost all towing the 30' AS FC. I too added the 50 gal Titan tank to replace the 26 gal tank, best move I've made in a long time. Now I can pick where I fuel up. DEF is an EPA mandated waste of money, but cannot avoid it.

In Kalispell, MT in early July we pulled out of a Walmart and got a message "In 50 miles you will not be able to exceed 50MPH". M0nday morning found a Ford dealer and simply pulled into the new car lot and walked into the service writers area. He said might be able to get to it sometime today, saw the truck and trailer and told me to wait until the mechanics get back from lunch. Head mechanic saw the message, and said go around back, unhook and we will take care of it now. Found out the DEF which crystallizes on impact is doing same to the injector it needs to feed into the fuel. There is a bulletin out on 14s and 15s but no recall as it's random. Three hours later, done by a 30 year old computer guy who controlled the entire truck except steering with a laptop on the center console and let me ride with him as he punched in info, read info for 40 miles. No longer my 54 Ford for sure.

We will not buy anything but these Ford Super Duties. A good friend retired diesel mechanic says it's the best "home" diesel ie, diesel for small trucks, on the market far and away.

Safe Travels

Bud
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Old 09-09-2016, 09:36 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingLink5 View Post
To: Ray E & Meeks:
I bought the same Tundra Meeks has, 2014 5.7L, 1794 edition CrewMax, but have not towed in the mountains yet. Tell me if I am right......I always use the Tow Haul regardless of where I am towing. When going up the mountain I should let the trans shift as needed. When going down the mountain I should again let the trans shift down by itself or should I set the trans on 5 or 4 or 3, depending on the grade, and shift down further as needed to save on braking?? I don't understand the book; it doesn't explain the down shifting for towing down hill?? Does the Tow Haul assist the trans on shifting down when on a down hill grade?? Thanks for your help!
@MissingLink5

Here's the info from the Toyota "FAQs":

Tundra models with the 5.7L V8 engine include a Tow/Haul button to the right of the steering column or on the end of the shift lever. Push it any time you need more pulling, stopping or steering power to compensate for a heavy trailer or load. When you do, the TOW/HAUL indicator will appear in the bottom half of the speedometer.

When you're in Tow/Haul Mode, you'll notice the system holds lower gears longer when you accelerate or decelerate. You'll notice it even more on long grades and mountain roads.

Tow/Haul mode also gives you better engine response and adds engine braking to help in slowing the vehicle down.
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Old 09-09-2016, 09:55 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingLink5 View Post
To: Ray E & Meeks:
I bought the same Tundra Meeks has, 2014 5.7L, 1794 edition CrewMax, but have not towed in the mountains yet. Tell me if I am right......I always use the Tow Haul regardless of where I am towing. When going up the mountain I should let the trans shift as needed. When going down the mountain I should again let the trans shift down by itself or should I set the trans on 5 or 4 or 3, depending on the grade, and shift down further as needed to save on braking?? I don't understand the book; it doesn't explain the down shifting for towing down hill?? Does the Tow Haul assist the trans on shifting down when on a down hill grade?? Thanks for your help!
And here is my "real world" experience:

I tow in "Standard" rather than "Automatic" all of the time. I use "Tow Haul" except when I forget to . The reason I like to use "Standard" is the ability to control gearing on both uphill and downhill grades. For gentle rolling hills going uphill the gears can "hunt" downwards more frequently than I like (even with "Tow Haul" on, so downshifting to 4th gear or sometimes even 3rd gear eliminates this. I only use 5th gear on very flat roads and never use 6th gear due to the "downshifting hunting" that invariably happens.

On downhills I downshift at the top of the hill before descending the hill. I downshift at least to 3rd gear to begin with or on the really steep hills immediately begin with 2nd gear. It's easy to upshift if going downhill too slowly but scary to downshift if you're suddenly going too fast. You'll experience being in too high a gear at some point on some 10%+ grade and you won't forget to do it again next time for quite a while, I bet ! On the steepest grades I've ever been on I actually went down the hill in 1st gear. I didn't know that was even possible but it was. The Tundra went to 30mph or so and the tachometer was in the 3,500-4,000 range. I still needed to brake sometimes to keep the engine revs ins that range. I would pull over if more than a couple of cars backed up behind me.

The Tundra, unlike the 3/4 or 1 ton trucks, does not have air brakes or brakes as large as these trucks, so being prudent by choosing low gears at the top of the hills keeps everything safer.

My only other caveat on the Tundra, as I have mentioned in other threads, is the low payload, especially on these tricked-out, comfy, big four door versions. We had the dealer install Roadmaster "helper springs" which helps with stability when towing and/or carrying heavy loads. It theoretically allows one to carry more payload but I don't to want get into that debate. I will say that with our Tundra set up in this way, along with an Equalizer WDH which includes anti-sway, that I have felt safe towing our 25 Airstream for thousands of miles up and down many a mountain pass from the Rockies to the Cascades.

Hope this helps!
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:07 AM   #38
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Is the Roadmaster kit the thing that looks like a bracket and a big coil spring sitting on top of the leaf spring?
Does it help?
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:11 AM   #39
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What, I thought that was all brand owners. I have towed over the last 30 years with nearly every version of TV. On average 60-65 pretty good (14-16). 65-70 not so good (12-14), 75+ bad 1(10-12). There are just so many variables; wind, elevation, grades, traffic, fuel quality, height of rear tow vehicle, distance from rear of TV to trailer front, how close you are willing to tail a semi, etc., etc.. Even with my lighter ML350 and 25'FB it was about the same as my current 2500 and 30' Bunk. Drag including wind verses speed is the main factor. Probably could get 17 at a steady 50.
One of the drawbacks of the Tundra, for sure, is mpg (remember, I'm a happy Tundra owner but this is the reality ). We consistently get around 11mpg towing at 60-65 mph. Doesn't help that we've usually got three kayaks on the top of the Tundra, however. Just the empty racks on top, when not towing the trailer, drag down the mpg in a big way! So, from this seat, even your "bad" mpg is my average mpg. Ha!
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:30 AM   #40
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@ Ray Ecklund

....."I will check out the 2017 Tundra's if they have a heavier suspension coming. I was waiting for a 3/4 ton with a gas / diesel option, but feel some politics is keeping it from happening. If you saw all of the other kinds of Toyota models outside North America... diesels as well... something is amiss. You and I understand something does not add up. Maybe someone who knows something could step in... I tend to 'step in it'."

The 2017 Tundras are more of the same. Toyota seems content to just keeping the Tundra the same for now.
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:32 AM   #41
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As a happy Tundra owner I concur.
Pros:
Power
Comfort
Handling
Cons:
Fuel economy
Small fuel tank size
Borderline payload
Tell me more about the Roadmaster springs. Do they take away some of the bounce or wobble? Does the ride quality suffer at all?
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:32 AM   #42
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MissingLinks5.... taking your Tundra 'down a steep grade' is to Dance with the Devil.

- Overheat your vehicles brake fluid from constant braking, and you had better start... dancing.
- Too much speed downhill and you HAVE to do an abrupt braking to get into a lower gear. This is actually the best option I have found for short sections of steep grade for speed control and get into that lower gear. Keep your engine RPM below 'red lining'.
- The 'Tundra shift Paddle' is a wonderful system, you will learn the 'dance from experience'.
- Tow Mode changes the gear shifting going up. I am not sure if it did anything for me in steep Colorado passes.

Much like learning to ride a bicycle or skiing... you just have to get practice. Many would panic and create their own problems in the process. Find your comfort level and maintain that speed with downshifting to an appropriate gear. When speed begins to increase above your comfort zone, a good short session of braking to maintain... control, minimizing riding your brakes, and find the gear that maintains speed control in your comfort level.

Like landing an aircraft. It is a 'controlled crash'. A helicopter 'autorotates' and the same. A controlled crash. Your tow vehicle and Airstream in tow... preventing a controlled crash.

(The Diesel Engine Braking also takes a few times to get the feel. It does work. A stiff braking and it kicks in and you eventually find yourself going too slow and need to give it fuel to reset the braking speed. It does take getting adjusted to engine braking.)

- Maintain a speed which you are comfortable. Others will pass you if they are in a hurry.
- As you get better at speed control, your confidence will also increase.
- If the curve indicates a speed of 65mph on a 75mph highway and you are holding your own at 55 to 60... you are in a sweet comfort zone.
- When you can take advantage of the down grade, on a straight section of road going upgrade, get your speed back up for the climb!

This is the Dancing with the Devil.

Everyone learns this Dance by experience, by actually doing it. Start out conservative in your speed and get a feel how your trailer is assisting in the braking process. You sure do not want your trailer's brakes locking up and smoking tires and you are just 'riding the brakes on the tow vehicle'.

I found Monarch Pass in south central Colorado a great example of Trailer Skiing a Black Diamond ski slope. After a couple of these... you will have a Thread how you managed to find that comfort zone. We all start from the same basic level of towing.
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