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hhendrix · 06-26-2012, 10:31 AM

Not a scientific study here but observations for those interested.
We have almost completed our round trip from Portland, OR to Alaska. See our blog, http://tandhalaska2012.blogspot.com/. I have a 2009 27' Flying Cloud FB towed by a 2011 Ford F250 4WD diesel. We are traveling with friends and their 2007 19' Bambi towed by a 2011 Ford F150. He says his trailer is about 5,000 lbs and his truck is loaded. My AS probably weighs close to 9,000 lbs and my truck is loaded too.
I've been following him for about 5,800 miles so far and have almost 7 solid weeks of observation of how both combinations perform.
He slows down on grades because the truck wants to shift down often and high rev the engine. His concern is both engine wear and fuel mileage. He also has to be careful going down grades because there is not much engine assist in controlling speed. It tows fine on level ground and accelerates easily.
My combination has been a real pleasure. With the 6 speed transmission, engine braking, built in automatic yaw control, and huge amount of torque, I can just set the cruise control and forget it. It maintains speed perfectly and effortlessly going both up and down grades. If need be, I can even accelerate and pass long trucks on grades without fear. I can also easily stop the trailer if for some reason I lose the electric trailer brakes.
Towing a trailer with an under powered TV is frustrating and stressful. Same too for inadequate brake capacity when you need it.
The really funny thing is that my friends and I are both getting the same mileage, about 14-15 mpg.

starcraft · 06-26-2012, 11:20 AM

max torque without the drama

Wayward · 06-26-2012, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hhendrix

With the 6 speed transmission, engine braking, built in automatic yaw control, and huge amount of torque, I can just set the cruise control and forget it. It maintains speed perfectly and effortlessly going both up and down grades.

This describes well my experience with the 6.2L gas motor in the same truck as yours with a similar Airstream. Ford did an outstanding job with that transmission, tranny controller and, their integration with the sensors and engine controller.

When towing, the truck always finds the best gear that my right foot is calling for. It will lock the torque converter when necessary and knows when I want to slow down on descent, and the rate. This actually provides more effective engine braking than the 3/4 ton Chevy diesel it replaced. The 6.2L gas also has a wide flat torque curve which, like the diesel, helps the tranny work as well as it does.

I am surprised Ford did not use these towing algorithms in the new F150, or is it just a more narrow torque curve than the F250 motors?

AirHeadsRus · 06-26-2012, 12:08 PM

I have a 2011 F-150 6.2 gas and like it a lot. It does stop when I apply the brakes. I think if I had to, I could get it stopped even without the trailer brakes. And, like Wayward said, awesome engine braking.
Regards,
Joe

richinny · 06-26-2012, 12:18 PM

can you post the engine size and gear ratio of your friends rig? my experience with my setup more closely matched your experience.

AWCHIEF · 06-26-2012, 01:22 PM

It seems that most currently produced diesels get no better mileage than their gas counterparts. With the current cost of diesel that is not very comforting. I have been looking at the new 3.7 ecoboost engine. It seems to be getting excellent mileage (better than others trucks) and has plenty of torque, HP and towing capacity to get the job done.

Ricky, sounds like you have what I have been looking at. How has yours been working out for you. Gas mileage etc

richinny · 06-26-2012, 01:29 PM

michael,
i posted in the thread i started. the usage report is here: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post1159233 :-)

AWCHIEF · 06-26-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richinny

michael,
i posted in the thread i started. the usage report is here: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ml#post1159233 :-)

Thank you, Michael

wahoonc · 06-26-2012, 04:32 PM

I tow with either a 2003 F150 with the 4.6 V-8 or a F350 PSD. The mileage is the same, the F350 doesn't know that the trailer is back there. Mileage is about 13mpg.

Aaron

hhendrix · 06-26-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richinny

can you post the engine size and gear ratio of your friends rig? my experience with my setup more closely matched your experience.

I'll do it as soon as I can. Right now we are in Grand Coulee and it's pouring rain.

overlander63 · 06-26-2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

It seems that most currently produced diesels get no better mileage than their gas counterparts. With the current cost of diesel that is not very comforting.

I recently upgraded our tow vehicle to an F250 gas engine truck. My mileage is not that far below that of a diesel, and I can buy a lot of gas for the savings in purchase price. The truck has all the towing accessories the diesels do, except for the engine.

hhendrix · 06-26-2012, 05:43 PM

[QUOTE=AWCHIEF;1166071]It seems that most currently produced diesels get no better mileage than their gas counterparts. With the current cost of diesel that is not very comforting. I have been looking at the new 3.7 ecoboost engine. It seems to be getting excellent mileage (better than others trucks) and has plenty of torque, HP and towing capacity to get the job done.

I think I'd have to disagree with you first statement. Remember my truck/trailer combo weighs almost twice as much as my friends and we are getting the same mileage.

Bruce B · 06-26-2012, 05:51 PM

[QUOTE=hhendrix;1166178]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

It seems that most currently produced diesels get no better mileage than their gas counterparts. With the current cost of diesel that is not very comforting. I have been looking at the new 3.7 ecoboost engine. It seems to be getting excellent mileage (better than others trucks) and has plenty of torque, HP and towing capacity to get the job done.

I think I'd have to disagree with you first statement. Remember my truck/trailer combo weighs almost twice as much as my friends and we are getting the same mileage.

Might be interesting to see what happened if you swapped trailers for a day.....
I keep reading in the forums of how the aerodynamics have more impact than weight in terms of power needed to tow. I tow a 16' Airstream with a 2010 F-150 and I get between 13 and 15 mpg depending on the hills.

Bruce

slowmover · 06-26-2012, 08:15 PM

The power needed to tow the TT is just the same . . the power needed to move the TV is always the real question . . the trade-off of miles towing versus miles solo per fuel burn.

Spec'ng a vehicle to run best for 20% or less of it's total miles is the common RV'er mistake. A TV that has to work for a living is no penalty to the experience of travel, epecially if it is better suited for solo miles (and few would argue that a 1/2T is much easier to live with). A Bambi can be towed by about anything, after all.

The OP's comparison would make more sense with GVW shown. The thread is thus far lacking basics such as scale weights (just a total for each would do), engines, gearing, trans types, etc, that one would expect with a "comparison".

For example, there are any number of approaches to ". . He also has to be careful going down grades because there is not much engine assist in controlling speed" in understanding the statement as made. The above would help to clarify this as driver skill is first, then last in this kind of assessment. The "in-between" is the vehicle spec and its' mechanical condition, the least important consideration in grade descent (for roadworthy combinations).

Not enough info, IOW.

.

BigAl · 06-26-2012, 08:33 PM

I've towed my 8000 lb 31 foot Airstream at 55 mph 5 hours straight four times now to check mileage that can be had and have averaged 15 mpg all four times. Imperial gallon. That's in Ontario and down to Cleveland and back. I am very happy with that fuel economy. It does this at 1500 rpm with the 3.5 litre ecoboost six.
Oh and when not towing I can get up to 29 mpg.(imperial) You can't match that with a diesel. I understand how much more hp and torque the diesels have but from my experience with this truck I think it is overkill, and expensive to buy if only to tow an Airstream.
Al

Steve & Mary · 06-26-2012, 08:43 PM

We've had our F-250 Power Stroke for about four months now and have towed our 31 Classic about 2k miles. Our old tow vehicle was a 2007 Expedition EL with the 5.4. There is no comparison. I debated a lot over the 6.7 or 6.2 gas burner before I settled for the diesel. Best decision I've made in a long time. I'm getting 13 towing and that is running 65 on the interstate. Unhitched I average 17 running around town and best I've done was 23 running 55 with the cruise set on level road. Best thing I like is the power and torque. No lack of power with this beast :-)

MrUKToad · 06-26-2012, 09:00 PM

I'm not sure that the comparison being cited by the OP is a fair one in any meaningful sense. Using identical trailers would even things out a bit and give a fairer set of figures. There is no mention, either, of the gas mileage when not towing which, for people like me who use their daily driver as their TV, is very important and one of my key factors in deciding what sort of tow vehicle to buy.

dkottum · 06-26-2012, 10:33 PM

Sounds more like someone loving his oversized truck (that's fine), than a comparison of two trucks; we don't even know what the other truck is.

For towing an Airstream and everyday use the F150 Ecoboost may make both of them obsolete.

doug k

hhendrix · 06-26-2012, 10:44 PM

[QUOTE=dkottum;1166288]Sounds more like someone loving his oversized truck (that's fine), than a comparison of two trucks; we don't even know what the other truck is.

Try reading the second paragraph again.

ROBERTSUNRUS · 06-26-2012, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hhendrix

He slows down on grades because the truck wants to shift down often and high rev the engine. His concern is both engine wear and fuel mileage. He also has to be careful going down grades because there is not much engine assist in controlling speed. It tows fine on level ground and accelerates easily.

Hi, forget the comparison, if you want to go up hill with a gas engine you need to bring it up in RPMs into it's power range. And if you are going down hill, you need to manually downshift your transmission into the proper gear. My half ton Lincoln has been down many steep mountains with barely and / or never even touching my brakes. Sorry, but your friend needs a bigger truck and /or driving lessons.