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Old 04-03-2006, 06:33 AM   #15
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To answer your question, yes, you can tow that trailer safely with a gas-powered F250, and the 156" wheelbase crew cab/short bed or 158" extended cab long bed would be a little safer than shorter trucks. We have the latter not only for the 8' bed, but also because it came with a 38 gallon fuel tank vs the short bed's 6-3/4' bed and 29 gallon fuel tank.

Our 2002 F250 has the diesel with 3.73:1 gearing and we'll never go back to a gas-powered truck.
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Old 04-03-2006, 06:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
That's pretty bad. Hard to believe that .8 of a litre could produce that much of a difference with just 2 extra (though smaller) pistons.

...have you driven a Ford.....lately?
That's comparing the 6.8l V10 with the 3.73s to the 6.8l V10 with the 4.10s in similarly equipped Excursions. I was surprised at the reported difference in mileage.

Roger
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Old 04-03-2006, 09:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
That's comparing the 6.8l V10 with the 3.73s to the 6.8l V10 with the 4.10s in similarly equipped Excursions. I was surprised at the reported difference in mileage.

Roger
Yea, I had figured that's what you meant....I was talking about how the 6.0L in my Burb w/4.10s can get 13mpg towing and me pops 2500 Silverado w/6.0L and 3.73s can get near 15 towing (granted he drives very s l o w) if he keeps out of it. Granted is 2 more hammers in it, but only a .8 litre difference. That's a pretty big mog gap between the 3.73 and 4.10s in a Ford, let alone getting into the GM/Ford comparision. I wonder if the Excursion is heavier or if the gears in the trans are different sizes. Those are some vastly different numbers. I don't suppose the folks you know that have the 4.10s drive 'em like the stole 'em? That right pedal has been known on occasion to knock down the MPG by a bit at times.
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Old 04-03-2006, 10:27 AM   #18
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Hard Hitch Ride with 3/4- & 1-tons

I saw something useful after my recent purchase of a 3/4-ton GMC. Roger (85MH325) addressed modifying the hard ride on lightly built Airstreams. He suggested actually carrying higher load than just the hitch weight within the tow vehicle. My interpretation was that the hard ride would be less with the suspension burdened beyond the 800-1000 range that hitch weight alone would impose. This will not be hard with my needs for a topper and planned in-box toys & tools.

Rog? I hope I'm not setting you up .... Did I get close to your meaning? I always wanted to see my 'warn' system lit up like a Christmas tree!!
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Old 04-03-2006, 10:56 AM   #19
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For what it's worth, I believe the 3.73 gears are no longer available with the V10- the 4.10 is now the standard ratio and the 4.30 is the optional ratio. I had a '03 model with the 3.73 and it really got pretty decent mileage - it would average around 14.5 empty and a flat 10 towing - the speeds being around 65-70. I put a 120,000 miles on it in three years and only had to replace the alternator at 85,000. Good engine.
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Old 04-03-2006, 11:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canoe stream
I saw something useful after my recent purchase of a 3/4-ton GMC. Roger (85MH325) addressed modifying the hard ride on lightly built Airstreams. He suggested actually carrying higher load than just the hitch weight within the tow vehicle. My interpretation was that the hard ride would be less with the suspension burdened beyond the 800-1000 range that hitch weight alone would impose. This will not be hard with my needs for a topper and planned in-box toys & tools.

Rog? I hope I'm not setting you up .... Did I get close to your meaning? I always wanted to see my 'warn' system lit up like a Christmas tree!!
Well, I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about... the suspension mods I did on MY Excursion had the net effect of making the rear end a little stiffer; although not sprung harder. I was a victim of the 4 spring stack that allowed for rear-axle steering. Unlike the SuperDuty 8 spring stack, the Excursion's 4 spring stack wasn't heavy enough to keep the axle centered under the truck. A Helwig sway bar and Land Yot radius rods along with new Edelbrock shocks and "E" range Firestones cured the problem.

Eric, I would conjecture that some of the difference in mileage may be attributable to the Excursion's extra 1,000 lbs of weight over the 3/4 ton Suburban. The Sub comes in at a little under 6k lbs, and the Excursion weighs in right at 7k lbs. Frankly, the weight differential between the Sub and the Excursion was part of the reason I chose the Ex as it has more mass to resist being thrown around by the trailer.

62 Overlander's mileage figures are about right for a normally aspirated Excursion at 60-70 mph. I try to drive mine "like a little old lady" for maximum fuel mileage whenever possible. I did add the K&N FIPK package and realized an increase of about 2 mpg over the stock system. And yes, I'm aware of all of the hoopla about whether or not the K&N system is better or worse for the engine; allows for less particulate filtration; fouls the MAF; etc. etc. etc. and I'm also aware that the MAF controls the amount of flow with the computer and it shouldn't technically get more air etc. etc. etc. All I can do is describe that I have realized a consistent 2mpg increase simply by adding the FIPK package.

Roger
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Old 04-03-2006, 12:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325

Eric, I would conjecture that some of the difference in mileage may be attributable to the Excursion's extra 1,000 lbs of weight over the 3/4 ton Suburban. The Sub comes in at a little under 6k lbs, and the Excursion weighs in right at 7k lbs. Frankly, the weight differential between the Sub and the Excursion was part of the reason I chose the Ex as it has more mass to resist being thrown around by the trailer.
And yes, I'm aware of all of the hoopla about whether or not the K&N system is better or worse for the engine; allows for less particulate filtration; fouls the MAF; etc. etc. etc. and I'm also aware that the MAF controls the amount of flow with the computer and it shouldn't technically get more air etc. etc. etc. All I can do is describe that I have realized a consistent 2mpg increase simply by adding the FIPK package.

Roger
Makes sense. If I wasn't a GM follower, I'd have most likely picked up a diesel Ex. As for the K&N, I added about 9HP on the dyno to the SS when it towed. Never really looked closely at the MPG side, but SOP (seat of pants) had better throttle response (which could have been part of the 9HP gains. I also heard that issue and have run it on the SS now for 54k so far so good. None of this issues have shown up (yet).
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Old 04-08-2006, 10:07 PM   #22
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Hello ,
The v10 engine and the 4:10 gear are what you want . You need the lower gearing to get the load moving and make pulling those mountain grades less stressful! The v10 has plenty of power . These vehical all have automatic overdrives so the engine will not be screaming at 65mph. 85mh325 is correct about the mileage but you know it depends on a variety of factors . Such as trailer weight loaded to go ,tow vehical tire size you travelling speed and so forth .now your not towing with an excursion either so your setups will not be identical . But getting info together as you are doing and asking questions is the way to do it .The excursion probably outweighs the pickup.The difference in the mileage between the 4:10 and 3:73 geared excursions is quite a difference . You need to see if someone has mileage figures with the setup you are contemplating to see if it is similar . My travelall with a 392 and 5 speed overdrive gets 13 without the airstream . 9 with it . It has 4:10 gears and is 4 wheel drive .Its a 1968 .

Good luck in your decision,


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Old 04-08-2006, 10:15 PM   #23
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My 04 F-250 5.4 Gas 3.73 rear, manual transmission had no problems with my 8000 pound Classic 31. GCWR 15000. Truck just under 7000 ponds.
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Old 04-09-2006, 05:37 AM   #24
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I have the 2000 F250 PSD, and although it tows our 30' Airstream OK, I was somewhat surprised to find out that we were actually above the GCWR for our truck when we're hitched up, with my wife and I in the cab and with a full tank of fuel.

With the trailer's tongue weight of (what is it - 1200#?) transferred onto the tow vehicle, that doesn't leave a lot of room for the toys, etc. that I like to take with us in the back of the truck.

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Old 04-09-2006, 11:26 AM   #25
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If you meant above GVWR instead of GCWR, I could understand that. What's important is whether you have the auxiliary springs that engage when the load is heavy, to protect the last bit of suspension travel and keep the suspension from bottoming out.

I made the decision to buy the F250 after spending months on what was then FordDiesel.com (now TheDieselStop.com). This was at the end of 2002, and more than one member there had gone through the parts book and couldn't find a difference between an F250 with P275 tires and single-rear wheel F350 which had them standard, other than the model emblems, and on the 4WD the spacer between the axle and springs was 3.5" vs 2". Same frame size and thickness, same axles, same springs, same auxiliary/helper springs, brakes, etc. I verified that with Ford's Body Builder's book. The F250 was rated 8800 lb GVWR and the F350 9900 lb GVWR and were virtually identical trucks except for the 4WD model's jacked up rear end. They didn't do this on the 2WD models, which had the same rear end height.

My biggest complaint, posted loudly numerous times, was that Ford also didn't raise the GVWR to keep the bed payload right when you added options that put weight entirely (i.e. the 600 lb diesel) or significantly (400 lb 4WD and 200-400 lb larger cab) on the front axle. In other words, a gas 2WD standard cab long bed had a bed payload capacity of IIRC around 3,000 lbs and could use most of its rear GAWR, while the diesel 4WD long bed with the 200 lb heavier extended cab, only had a bed capacity of IIRC 1800 lbs on paper and couldn't get near the rear GAWR. Rear GAWR on the F350 was exactly 2 x the max load capacity of the P275 tires, while on the F250 it was exactly 2 x the max load capacity of the P245 tires, even if you had the P275 option. The F250's 8800 lb GVWR was nowhere near the 5,200 front GAWR plus 6,080 rear GAWR = 11,280 lbs, nor was the F350 GVWR near the sum of it's GAWRs.

Besides license plates costing more for the F350 in Ohio, and insurance being slightly higher, my biggest problem was how high the F350's rear end was. It was known to hit the bottom of some fifth-wheels, and for some time, Ford was replacing the 3.5" blocks with 2" blocks at no cost to 4WD F350 owners. But by the end of 2002, they'd stopped doing that. What that meant for a travel trailer was that we'd have to pay for it ourselves to lower the F350 to F250 height, or use an 8" drop head versus a 6" head, and the longer the drop, the more leverage the load pulling on the hitch head has to twist the hitch receiver frame. It also meant a 2" higher tailgate for me to have to jump up on, or lift cargo such as the EU2000s onto.

So we decided to get the diesel 4WD extended cab/longbed F250, which on paper would be marginal to the GVWR with us and the Airstream tongue weight, and well over it, but under the F350 GVWR with one or both Harleys in the bed while towing the Airstream. We've never towed that way, but subsequently loaded the truck bed with 2300 lbs of roofing, bringing it to just over 10,000 lbs with us in it. That was right about 5,000 lbs on each of the front and rear axles, which put the rear 1,000+ lbs under the F250's 6080 lb GAWR, much less the F350's 6800+ rating. The auxiliary springs were just beginning to touch their bumpstops on the frame on one end, but not the other, and the truck sat level and handled fine on the highway.

I guess Ford finally listened to my continuous complaining, because when the new F-series came out in 2005, GVWR increased with options that didn't, or only partially, put their weight on the rear axle. Both F250 and F350 had much higher GVWR than the 2002 models. I did note in my research of the 2005, that the SRW F350 now had one part different, the shafts inside the rear axle housing were different by number of splines on the end. Other than the rear axle shafts, same frame, springs, axles, and brakes.

If you're going to order or buy a Ford SuperDuty, make sure you get the towing package, which was standard on all in 2002, AND the Camper package. The latter ensured that you got the heavier computer-selected front springs. Not all diesel models did, and some were actually over the front GAWR unloaded. As it is now, we're just under the heavier 5,200 lb front GAWR, loaded or not. Trucks with the snow plow option got the 6,000 front springs labeled "X" and some 4WD SRW F350 owners swapped for these to help raise the front end to better match the jacked-up rear end, at the expense of a little rougher ride. The Camper package also got you a rear anti-sway bar, which helps if you ever have a load with a high center of gravity, as well as improves handling.

And finally, it got you a certificate that the truck was able to carry a camper of a listed weight. That weight was after subtracting 150 lbs for every belted seat position in the truck, so bench seat extended or crew cab models took a hit there too. I think ours wound up being certified for something like 750 lbs, when it could actually carry over 2,000 with two passengers and the larger fuel tank of the long bed full. That doesn't really matter since most slide-in campers weigh 3,500-4,500 lbs these days anyway.

Hope this Sunday morning memory dump helps some.
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Old 04-09-2006, 12:35 PM   #26
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You will be fine with the F-250 Gasser.

I tow a 73 31' Sov with a 1996 F-250 7.3L Diesel and I more truck than I need. In fact, I have towed with and without the sway control and and with and with the 1000# load distributing spring bars and honestly can not tell a difference.

I have more than enough power (I've pushed it up to 85mph uphill just to see if it would do it) and still can get 16 mph towing on the Interstates.

BTW-I have towed the same trailer with an 03 Astro. It did not have an over abundance of power but it still towed just fine. I was careful to keep my weight down (no water in the tanks, one tank of propane, buy groceries after you get where you are going, etc., etc.) but it still towed fine. Keep an eye on the trans temp, stay about 10mph under the posted speed limit, brake early, take your time........
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Old 04-09-2006, 01:09 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKingMoe
If you meant above GVWR instead of GCWR, I could understand that. What's important is whether you have the auxiliary springs that engage when the load is heavy, to protect the last bit of suspension travel and keep the suspension from bottoming out.
You always amaze and educate me, Maurice!

I should have said GVWR, not GCWR.

On our 2000 F250 4x4, the GVWR is 8800#, but the front and rear axles are rated at 4800# and 6084#, slightly less on the front axle than on your 2002 model.

When we weighed in last summer, hitched up to our trailer, the truck was just over 9000# (I don't recall the individual axles) and the trailer was somewhere around 7500# (well within limits).

I have 265/75R16 tires, camper package, heavy duty suspension and whatever else Ford offered as options at the time.

However, here's what Ford says: ...if either of these (GVWR and GAWR) limits is exceeded, you should either go with a larger vehicle or a smaller trailer."

(or, I might add, just leave the dear wife at home! )

John
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Old 04-09-2006, 01:58 PM   #28
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If you're going to order or buy a Ford SuperDuty, make sure you get the towing package and the Camper package. The latter ensured that you got the heavier computer-selected front springs..
hi maurice and others.....

i agree with moe's 250/350 anaysis....

and in some urban areas parking lots now post signs ....
"no trucks over 3/4 ton".....so the 250s are permitted buy not 350s.

i ordered and went through the analysis and specs in detail also....

i wanted the rear antisway bar....so i just added it to the order.... on 2005 and newer, trucks reach the front spring computer selected max spring rating with the diesel, 4x4, towing package....so the "camper package" only adds the certificate for slide in campers...and buying just the antiway bar was less money...150--200 bucks as i recall.

cheers
2air'
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