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Old 07-09-2015, 08:47 PM   #29
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The thread is straying a bit from my original post, but that's okay as it has given me more information.

In my case I'll definitely be buying a used truck simply because I can't afford a new or nearly new one. I'm looking at $25,000 or so for the truck. That's why I was asking about the older F250/350 trucks.

One of the other guys here at this Habitat build has a 2008 F350 crew cab dually with the diesel engine. He bought it new, built to his specs. He chose a 4.30 rear end and gets 12 mpg solo and 10 mpg towing his 5'er.

That raises another question. What rear end is a decent compromise between fuel economy and towing capability? Remember that I'm looking at a 10,000 pound Airstream here, not a 15,000 pound 5'er.
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:11 PM   #30
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As a die-hard Ford man, I would not look at the diesel engine from 2003-2011. From 2012 up is an absolute Ford designed and built diesel engine and has proven itself to be a very reliable engine. The Ford transmission is actually better than the Allison and has no TSB's.

Also, if you can find a good used 6.8 V-10 or 6.2 V-8, you will save a lot of initial money even with the lower mpg, either one will keep up with any diesel except for long high-altitude hills. My V-10 has been flawless for 160,000 miles.
Actually the 2011 has the new diesel..I have one. I also had a 7.3 which is the second best although not a Ford motor. The new 6.7 is amazing.
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:30 PM   #31
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An F250 7.3 or 6.7 will easily tow your trailer. Here is another thing to consider. The F350 has a much stiffer suspension. I had a F350 when I first bought my 2009 27' FB. The combination of the truck suspension and probably too strong equalizer bars caused some compression fractures at the bottom corners of the front compartment. The stiffness was beating the trailer to death.
Even with the truck fully loaded as mine often is, the F250 tows the AS quite well. You may need a 1 ton for other reasons but I don't think you need it to tow your trailer. A well maintained 2011 6.7 or newer would be a good purchase. The integrated trailer brake control panel, automatic yaw control, 6 speed automatic transmission with engine braking would well be worth the extra expense of the "bullet Proof" 7.3
One more reason for diesel over gas is overheating. Diesels almost never overheat. That's why we switched our fire trucks years ago. I towed my AS over the Eisenhower Summit at about 11,000 ft on a 87 degree day without a problem.
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Old 07-09-2015, 09:31 PM   #32
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3.42 or 3.54 or 3.31 is fine with one of our trailers.
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Old 07-09-2015, 10:46 PM   #33
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Before I would ever buy used, compare the monthly payment for 5 years on a buy at $4k down vs leasing a new one for 36 months. No matter how you figure it, a lease is way better than an out right purchase. This is especially true on a Ford Red Carpet lease. You get a new truck and only pay sales tax on the monthly payment, plus at the end of the lease you can buy it, no matter how many miles you have, without any penalty. Even if you could pay cash, you are better off leasing.
Leasing is something I have not looked into. I assumed it was basically putting out the money you would spend on a monthly payment at the end of which you basically don't have the vehicle. Am I wrong here? I plea ignorance. What kind of price can you buy it for at the end of the lease?

Another x factor for me that I am not sure exactly how it fits in is I am 65. Hopefully I will be still be camping for another 10 years. Maybe a bit more. Who knows?

I am retiring next month. I would like to do some longer trips, but I really don't know yet how much mileage I will be putting on a vehicle and will probably be taking it kind of easy. I'm not sure how this fits into the equation.
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Old 07-10-2015, 06:43 AM   #34
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Lumatic: I opt for new and am able to buy. Leasing is another story, in my business we used to lease fleets of golf carts, which is the same as leasing anything. We did about 10,000 a year in my area of responsibility, so I understand leasing a little.

When you lease you do so for a period of time at a set interest rate. With autos there is a mileage contract as well, usually 10,000 to 15,000 miles per year, but you can purchase additional miles up front rather than pay a penalty at the end of the lease.

Usually there is an upfront payment, this is primarily to secure the deal and get the payments a little lower. Your payments are solely based on what the leasing company thinks your vehicle will be worth at the end of the lease. You are paying for the use and depreciation of the vehicle while you use it. Then at lease termination there is a residual payment which you are not obligate to make. This is the "payoff" number, which if you agree to and pay you can own the vehicle. The residual is again based solely on what the leasing company thinks the vehicle will be worth at the end of the lease.

Simplified, but that is leasing. I do not lease, it's more expensive than buying and keeping for a while, however, it does make a much nicer vehicle available to more people as the cost during which one owns the vehicle is doable for more people. Both my adult children lease and like the process.

Good luck, in used I would recommend the F250-350 from 2012 to now. The 6.7 simply cannot be beaten.
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Old 07-10-2015, 07:10 AM   #35
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Before I would ever buy used, compare the monthly payment for 5 years on a buy at $4k down vs leasing a new one for 36 months. No matter how you figure it, a lease is way better than an out right purchase. This is especially true on a Ford Red Carpet lease. You get a new truck and only pay sales tax on the monthly payment, plus at the end of the lease you can buy it, no matter how many miles you have, without any penalty. Even if you could pay cash, you are better off leasing.
This is generally true about leases, but Ford does not offer leases on it's Super Duty trucks to retail buyers. Only straight debt financing. He may be able to find a third party leasing company, however.
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Old 07-10-2015, 08:27 AM   #36
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Boy, there some false knowledge folks on leases. First, you can lease any vehicle on the lot including a Super Duty. Second, I never buy extra miles if I plan on buying at the end of the lease. Third, the "residual" contract price to buy at the end of the lease is usually around 50% of the sticker price. One big advantage is you only pay sales tax on the monthly payment, not the price of the vehicle.

Even if I rack up 100,000 miles during the lease period, if I buy it at the end of the lease, there is no penalty. If at the end of the lease you don't like the truck, you can either turn it in and pay the extra miles (if there is any) or again, buy the truck at the residual price and then sell it or trade for another one.

Another way to lease is to pay the entire lease up front thereby getting another discount, then you have no payment for the lease period. Some folks get a LOC or a 2nd on their home, pay off the lease and make their payment as a mortgage payment and get another tax advantage.

In the past 25 years, after a really good Ford salesman showed me on paper all of the advantages of leasing, I have leased all of my family's Fords and either turned them in or bought at the end of the lease. Even if you can pay cash for a $70,000 vehicle, you are better off to lease and buy stocks/bonds with the remaining dollars. When you really investigate, a lease is the only way to go, plus you get the latest and greatest available for less money than buying. After all, a lease is basically just paying off the depreciation.
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Old 07-10-2015, 09:07 AM   #37
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You are paying for the use and depreciation of the vehicle while you use it. Then at lease termination there is a residual payment which you are not obligate to make. This is the "payoff" number, which if you agree to and pay you can own the vehicle. The residual is again based solely on what the leasing company thinks the vehicle will be worth at the end of the lease.

Simplified, but that is leasing. I do not lease, it's more expensive than buying and keeping for a while,
I still don't understand the intricacies of leasing. Seems like it may be useful if you have a lot of money to manage, which, being on the verge of retirement I don't. But the information I have so far from the forums it seems like I can lease a new vehicle for a few years and then be at the point I am now and buy it. So I am not sure I see the advantage for me. The vehicle I am looking at is a 2013 Chevy Silverado Duramax with low mileage (60K). It is in really good shape and other than a few scratches in the cargo bed looks new. Being 65 it will last me until I no longer to tow.

I can also get an interest rate of about 2% on sale which I see as a reason to buy as much vehicle now as I can, but I am afraid a new 60K truck is over the top for me.

The mortgage thing is something for me to check out. The sales tax in NM would cost me about $1000.

If I am wrong on this please convince me otherwise.
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Old 07-10-2015, 09:20 AM   #38
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In Missouri, we have personal property taxes every year on our vehicles. Since I just moved here in 2014 I will be paying my first personal property taxes this year. I guess even a lease you have to pay. We leased a van back in the 90s when living in Texas and had to pay a tax every year during the lease to the state, some sort of inventory tax. We didn't realize this so that added to the cost of leasing. Just make sure of all the pros and cons before leasing.

Funny thing about the van. We liked it enough to refinance when the lease was up and a few months later it was stolen when we went to see the movie Independence Day, 1996.

Looking at preowned diesel 3/4t trucks in my area most have high mileage and still fetch a high price. Having never owned a diesel my choice would to go new and get the warranty and piece of mind. There are several 2015 model F250 XLT which are under $50k but one item I would really like is the back up camera and they don't have them. They load up the truck with snow plow package, goose neck package, camper package (no one here buys slide in campers) and then don't add the back up camera which on the XLT is in the rear view mirror which may not be that good anyway.

Looks like Ford's Ecoboost for F250 is delayed as one local dealer has 2016 F250 gas but has the same 6.2L gas which I don't like. The technology in this engine seems a downgrade from my Tundra's 5.7L plus the F250 is over 1000lbs heavier to start with.

I'm just going to hold on for a few more years and see what develops.

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Old 07-10-2015, 10:13 AM   #39
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Boy, there some false knowledge folks on leases. First, you can lease any vehicle on the lot including a Super Duty.
Must be a state-by-state thing, in Michigan Ford Credit definitely does not do retail leases on Super Duty trucks (at least they didn't do it about one year ago.)
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Old 07-10-2015, 10:29 AM   #40
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Leasing is actually pretty straightforward if you think about it as follows...

Break the purchase price of the vehicle into two components:

The first component is the residual value (i.e., the price you would pay to purchase the vehicle at the end of the lease.) Typically this is 55 to 65% of the sticker price of the vehicle.

The second component is the amount of depreciation that the lessor (e.g., Ford Credit) expects during the term of the lease. This is the difference between the up front purchase price (i.e., NOT the sticker price but the actual price you could pay to buy outright) and the residual value.

Note that adding the two above figures together should add up to the up front purchase price.

Your monthly lease payment is simply a combination of an "interest only" payment on the residual value plus what is essentially an amortizing loan with interest for the expected depreciation during the term of the lease (typically 24 to 39 months.)

The reason lease payments are lower than financing the entire vehicle with a typical amortizing loan is that with a lease you are only paying interest on the residual value (plus the amortizing loan on the depreciation piece) while with an amortizing loan you are paying down the principal on the entire purchase price of the vehicle, plus interest of course.

In my opinion, the principal advantage of leasing is a no-hassle, predictable vehicle turn in process since you've basically pre-negotiated the trade in price of the vehicle. Your monthly payments can appear to be lower, but if you keep leasing a new vehicle at the end of each lease, you could end up paying more over the long run than if you bought a vehicle and kept it for a long time. If you like a new vehicle every two to three years and can keep it in pretty good shape, then leasing can make sense. But, if you keep your vehicle for a long time, or beat the crap out of it, or want the flexibility to replace the vehicle anytime you want, leasing may not be the best way to go.
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Old 07-10-2015, 10:41 AM   #41
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If you talk to someone that buys a $60,000(plus sales tax) vehicle with say $10,000 down and finances the remainder for 6 years and after 3 years they decide for one reason or another, that they don't like the rig, they are so upside down they can't afford to make a change.

Your lease payment is paying off the depreciation. In all of the years I've leased, there was only one time where the residual was way different than the blue book value. On that one, we just turned it in to the dealer and leased a new one.

To each their own; leasing has been really good to me and my 2008 F-250 and the wife's 2007 Lincoln LT were both the result of leasing and then buying at the residual price at the end of the lease. You have a lot more options over the years with a lease vs buying a brand new rig. Check the value of a 3 year old vehicle with 40,000 miles vs the residual of a leased vehicle of the same value.
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Old 07-10-2015, 09:01 PM   #42
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F250/350 questions

Not true as I trade every 3 years for $15k F350 Supercrew platinum 4x4 SRW MSRP $68k ...but my trades are cleaner than the new one when I come in to pick it up.iIf you take good care of your vehicles they are in demand.Never upside down.


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