F150 for a tow vehicle?

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by Action

The 1997 F150 manual tranny will not tow that load. The V-6 with a stick was meant to be a MPG leader. That year 4X2 with the 4.2 v-6 required an automatic, 3.55 axle, wd hitch and trailer tow package to get 4600 #'s of tow capacity. . >>Action

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Action,
I don't see how you can make a statement like that based on opinion,, I have had this particular vehicle and only changes made was to upgrade the springs and add a class IV hitch, I towed many things the same size & weight of this trailer without problems. The only drawback I found is you can not use the OD on a hill, you have to drop to 4 gear.
Other than that it served me well.

Sarge

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by Action

I believe in 1993 Crown Vic/Grand Marquis and Town Car lightened up to a 2000 # rating. And it has only gone down from there.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

This article by Mr. T explains the Crown Vic towing situation.....

RV Lifestyle - Hitch Hints

[Lumatic]

Originally Posted by SARGE/AF

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Action,
I don't see how you can make a statement like that based on opinion,, I have had this particular vehicle and only changes made was to upgrade the springs and add a class IV hitch, I towed many things the same size & weight of this trailer without problems. The only drawback I found is you can not use the OD on a hill, you have to drop to 4 gear.
Other than that it served me well.

Sarge

What kind of mpgs do you get towing and not towing?

[Action]

Originally Posted by SARGE/AF

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Action,
I don't see how you can make a statement like that based on opinion,, I have had this particular vehicle and only changes made was to upgrade the springs and add a class IV hitch, I towed many things the same size & weight of this trailer without problems. The only drawback I found is you can not use the OD on a hill, you have to drop to 4 gear.
Other than that it served me well.

Sarge

I can make the towing limit statement based on published data from the manufacturer. Ford built the truck to tow 4600 #'s with an auto tranny and Ford Motor Company states so in their publications. The manual transmission of any light truck (under 8600 GVWR) that Ford built in the last 30 years is not designed to handle big loads.

I have also worked for the company in the service end of things. (Not a dealership) The company introduced a V-6 F150 stick in the 80's (for MPG ratings) that one of my engineer friends said was overloaded with a passenger and a briefcase. Light trucks (under 8600 GVWR) with base equipment are part of the counters. They count for better MPGs in CAFE and are price leaders in marketing. Not really built to handle big loads. I consider a big load to be 2 tons or better.

Can it be overloaded? Or can one add items to make the vehicle do more than it was designed? Sure. I have done so too. However the manufacturer designed it to do a certain job. Beyond that you are your own builder and risk taker.

Sarge - In your experience of the 3 trucks you list above the 300 straight six is in a differnt category than I speak about above. The 300 had piles of torque however as you mention it isn't a high speed engine. The other F-150's you are light on details. The original poster is referencing the smallest engine available in the F-150 line up with a manual transmission. That 1997 unit is not designed to pull the weight of that Safari, not based on what I say, based on what Ford and Airstrem puts out. Airstream states the total GVWR can get to 6300 #'s and Ford states a F-150 with that engine can only tow 4600#'s and it requires the automatic transmission among other things. With out the automatic that F-150 won't evn do the 4600 #'s. So that combo is over loaded and for most people it isn't a good thing.

>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by Lumatic

What kind of mpgs do you get towing and not towing?

It has been a few years since I have had this vehicle, so I really dont remember.
Sorry

Sarge

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by Action

I can make the towing limit statement based on published data from the manufacturer. Ford built the truck to tow 4600 #'s with an auto tranny and Ford Motor Company states so in their publications. The manual transmission of any light truck (under 8600 GVWR) that Ford built in the last 30 years is not designed to handle big loads.

I have also worked for the company in the service end of things. (Not a dealership) The company introduced a V-6 F150 stick in the 80's (for MPG ratings) that one of my engineer friends said was overloaded with a passenger and a briefcase. Light trucks (under 8600 GVWR) with base equipment are part of the counters. They count for better MPGs in CAFE and are price leaders in marketing. Not really built to handle big loads. I consider a big load to be 2 tons or better.

Can it be overloaded? Or can one add items to make the vehicle do more than it was designed? Sure. I have done so too. However the manufacturer designed it to do a certain job. Beyond that you are your own builder and risk taker.

Sarge - In your experience of the 3 trucks you list above the 300 straight six is in a differnt category than I speak about above. The 300 had piles of torque however as you mention it isn't a high speed engine. The other F-150's you are light on details. The original poster is referencing the smallest engine available in the F-150 line up with a manual transmission. That 1997 unit is not designed to pull the weight of that Safari, not based on what I say, based on what Ford and Airstrem puts out. Airstream states the total GVWR can get to 6300 #'s and Ford states a F-150 with that engine can only tow 4600#'s and it requires the automatic transmission among other things. With out the automatic that F-150 won't evn do the 4600 #'s. So that combo is over loaded and for most people it isn't a good thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>Action

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Action let me break this into parts Q & A;
Q:Ford built the truck to tow 4600 #'s with an auto tranny and Ford Motor Company states so in their publications. The manual transmission of any light truck (under 8600 GVWR) that Ford built in the last 30 years is not designed to handle big loads.
A: This is one of those statements Auto makers put in because of lawsuits, this particular tranny was used not only in the F 100,150 but was also in the 250 as well. What restricted the towing class was the spring set up, this was available in Light- for running around town and HD- for towing and again they only changed the springs on them.
Q: I have also worked for the company in the service end of things. (Not a dealership) The company introduced a V-6 F150 stick in the 80's (for MPG ratings) that one of my engineer friends said was overloaded with a passenger and a briefcase. Light trucks (under 8600 GVWR) with base equipment are part of the counters. They count for better MPGs in CAFE and are price leaders in marketing. Not really built to handle big loads. I consider a big load to be 2 tons or better.
A: This is very true and one of the biggest mistakes ford ever made when they replaced the 300 inline 6 with the V6 which is like you say, little unknown fact at the time ford introduced the V6 westerns and the movie Urban Cowboy was at their high again and everyone was a wanna be.
Q: Can it be overloaded? Or can one add items to make the vehicle do more than it was designed? Sure. I have done so too. However the manufacturer designed it to do a certain job. Beyond that you are your own builder and risk taker.
A: In most cases especially with foriegn vehicles and the mini trucks that the big 3 made is definately the case. but with regular size pickups they was primarely designed for farm & small business work, the frame and such had not changed in years only the bodies and engines, thus the slight mods that can be made was not over doing the vehicle. of coarse I am not saying that you can take an F150 and turn it into a 3/4 or 1 ton because you are talking about a big difference in frames and stuff, however the 100 & 150 was built in 2 set ups 1/2 and heavy 1/2 and the latter was for small business and pulling campers. if you could go back in time to the 70's,80's, 90's (up to 98 or 99) and went to a dealer and ordered a pickup for a camper 25 foot in length what you would have gotten is a heavy 1/2. in fact that set up worked so well that Ford has brought it back out in the 08 to current 150's but with some mods such as the box frame, more cross members, lighter and stronger metal.
Q: Sarge - In your experience of the 3 trucks you list above the 300 straight six is in a differnt category than I speak about above. The 300 had piles of torque however as you mention it isn't a high speed engine. The other F-150's you are light on details.
A: Thats what all my trucks I had was in them. the Inline 300 was also known as a bulldog 300 and the motor not only had tork, fuel milage, but was almost indestructable. Another reason ford stopped making them, presure from Chev & Dodge, as well as the motors was lasting too long. And in a rebuild you very very rarely had to sleave the cylenders because of so little wear. In 2007 I found a 1989 F150 with a bulldog 300 & 4 speed with OD and bought it because of the durability. Added the Class IV hitch (frame mounted) and spring overloads for a F150, because I had a 16' flat cargo trler that i pulled around with motorcycles on it, I could load 2 dressers and 2 regular bikes and never even know they was there. Later when I was forced to trade because of a favor I done for someone I sold it for twice what I paid for it.
Q: The original poster is referencing the smallest engine available in the F-150 line up with a manual transmission. That 1997 unit is not designed to pull the weight of that Safari, not based on what I say, based on what Ford and Airstrem puts out. Airstream states the total GVWR can get to 6300 #'s and Ford states a F-150 with that engine can only tow 4600#'s and it requires the automatic transmission among other things. With out the automatic that F-150 won't evn do the 4600 #'s. So that combo is over loaded and for most people it isn't a good thing.
A: if he is then you are correct with what you are saying as far as towing, they was not made to tow just what you put in the bed and even then that was not much use. When I read it I was under the impression that he was refering to the type I was talking about, it is not uncommon to confuse the 2 because they are identical in appearance. It is like I said in my orginal post and if you look I mention both types and he would have to see which one he has to know whether he can tow with that truck or not.
Sarge

[Action]

I believe the transmission set up has everything to do with the clutch size and nothing to do with the manual transmission. Those manual transmissions have a very small clutch that can be burnt with the slightest load. And it is what the manufacturer has designed to meet a specific market niche. That set up isn't designed to take any load. It is the inexpensive entry level pick up truck. If one wants to over load the vehicle (based on the manufacturer's limits) that is their choice. Just because it has a box in the back doesn't mean it was designed to tow.

The change from the straight six was based on emissions and fuel economy. It was a good engine to do the work and it survived for many years because of this. However the change was not a mistake it was done on purpose. The engine was not designed for electronics and did not lend it self to run clean. So the government elected by the people created that change. And it is spilled milk to talk aboiut that engine (and so many others) cause the engine ain't available any more! - Other greats in my opinion are FE block, 302, 250 six for passenger cars, 429.

The heavy half had a GVWR over 8600 #'s. This allowed any manufacturer to not comply with many regulations. (Emmissions, MPG safety and other things) Thus all manufactures built these vehicles (heck I have a heavy 1/2 Van) and charged more because the market would pay. And in the 80's and later buyers wanted options. So options were available to all. Not just the F-150 wanna be cowboy. Even 1 ton rigs got PW, PDL and tilt wheel, not to mention AM-FM, A/C and auto tranny. Things that were never available in the 70's and 60's. Buyers were willing to pay for them and the car companies were very willing to put them in.

>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by Action

I believe the transmission set up has everything to do with the clutch size and nothing to do with the manual transmission. Those manul transmissions have a very small clutch that can be burnt with the slightest load. And it is what the manufacturer has designed to meet a specific market niche. That set up isn't designed to take any load. It is the inexpensive entry level pick up truck. If one wants to over load the vehicle (based on the manufacturer's limits) that is their choice. Just because it has a box in the back doesn't mean it was designed to tow.

The change from the straight six was based on emissions and fuel economy. It was a good engine to do the work and it survived for many years because of this. However the change was not a mistake it was done on purpose. The engine was not designed for electronics and did not lend it self to run clean. So the government elected by the people created that change. And it is spilled milk to talk aboiut that engine (and so many others) cause the engine ain't available any more! - Other greats in my opinion are FE block, 302, 250 six for passenger cars, 429.

The heavy half had a GVWR over 8600 #'s. This allowed any manufacturer to not comply with many regulations. (Emmissions, MPG safety and other things) Thus all manufactures built these vehicles (heck I have a heavy 1/2 Van) and charged more because the market would pay. And in the 80's and later buyers wanted options. So options were available to all. Not just the F-150 wanna be cowboy. Even 1 ton rigs got PW, PDL and tilt wheel, not to mention AM-FM, A/C and auto tranny. Things that were never available in the 70's and 60's. Buyers were willing to pay for them and the car companies were very willing to put them in.
>>>>>>>>>>>Action

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Well it comes to this you can believe what you read or not, believe what you want. I know better.
Given that I grew up in Michigan around the Big 3, family has worked there, family friends have worked there, I have worked for both Ford & GM, and have knowledge of details in the company that most don't have access too, given that most of the vehicles I have owned have been Fords, also given that my 22 years of my life has been in the transportation business with a perfect safety record, I have real experience with hauling from the size of a pickup to multiple axle semis.
I have personal knowledge and experience, I will keep it to myself because I am not going to argue with someone who has read something and takes it as fact over experience...

If anyone wants my advice or wishes to pick my brain feel free to PM me, I will do my best to answer your questions.

Sarge

[funkill]

Originally Posted by Wilburstream

Looking for some advise on a potential tow vehicle. I got a line on a 97 ford f-150 with low mileage and a good price. I need to know if it will pull my 2001 25 ft. safari. It has a 6cyl. engine, manual transmission and has a long bed. Any thoughts or information appreciated. Thanks. bill.

Last night I tuned in to "Extreme Makeover - Home Edition" (Almquist Forever Wild Sanctuary) and they (or Ford) gave the family this new truck . One of the design folks demonstrates using the computer and printer --- all from the drivers seat. And it was not a heads-up display!

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by funkill

Last night I tuned in to "Extreme Makeover - Home Edition" (Almquist Forever Wild Sanctuary) and they (or Ford) gave the family this new truck . One of the design folks demonstrates using the computer and printer --- all from the drivers seat. And it was not a heads-up display!

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Bill,
I know of the setup you are refering to, back when the program came on they did a show a few doors down from a hamradio operator who is active storm chaser and seen his vehicle with this set up, They got the information from him and made their own holder so they could have their computers in their vehicles.
The original set up is a plate to hold the computer with a small printer mounted on a second plate under it, an inverter to supply power to both printer and laptop, on the bottom of it is a bendable pole that connects to the floor or seat.
I had this same set up in my semi with a desktop once inverters came on the market, and they was not very good when they first came out. Since then I have converted to a laptop, batter operated HP printer, scanner that runs off the laptop, 1500 w inverter. I am going to make the same holder for the 05 Excursion I just bought once I get my ham radio installed, the radio, GPS both will be linked to the radio.

Sarge

[Aage]

Jeepers! And here they worry about people talking on cell phones when they drive...!

Mind you, all the police cruisers here have them, so what the heck, enjoy!

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by Aage

Jeepers! And here they worry about people talking on cell phones when they drive...!

Mind you, all the police cruisers here have them, so what the heck, enjoy!

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Aage,
LOL, no I am not irresponsible, 90% of the time I am parked when actually using the computer with the exception of once it is hooked to GPS, then it will only be turned on but not in use by me, it will be on a program that operates on its own. The other 10% of the time is during actual storm chasing and it has to be on to track radar/GPS for national weather service.

Sarge

[Aage]

Originally Posted by SARGE/AF

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Aage,
LOL, no I am not irresponsible, 90% of the time I am parked when actually using the computer with the exception of once it is hooked to GPS, then it will only be turned on but not in use by me, it will be on a program that operates on its own. The other 10% of the time is during actual storm chasing and it has to be on to track radar/GPS for national weather service.

Sarge

OK, I believe you are not irresponsible, but now that you tell me you are a storm chaser, I know that you are most likely certifiably insane!

Good luck catching one!

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by Aage

OK, I believe you are not irresponsible, but now that you tell me you are a storm chaser, I know that you are most likely certifiably insane!

Good luck catching one!

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LOL, your not the only one who says that about me, Trust me I like to keep my distance, safety comes first. Unlike TV chasers, when storm chasing for the national weather service your job is to monitor and report not engage the storm. The people on TV take too many risks for TV purposes to get ratings, and that unfortunately gives us bad reps.
When we chase for the national weather service we are not alone, there may be as many as 20-50 stationed at different points to watch the clouds, Our job is to report it when it starts because there is a point at which radar does not pick up all the details, but once the conditions forms, rotation is noticed, actual tornado forms, we monitor it for direction, destruction, etc and report to NWS.
So as you can see it is safety first,

Sarge

[Aage]

Well, that's certainly good to hear, Sarge. Keep your eye on the "eye"!