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Old 03-05-2009, 11:11 PM   #15
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Towing with a stick shift is not one of life's great pleasures.
I tow with a stick shift, and enjoy it.

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Old 03-05-2009, 11:20 PM   #16
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As a seller of tow vehicles, I'm gonna have to disagree with that and I bet Inland Andy might too. I have told no less than three potential buyers this week alone that the vehicle they were looking at was not suited for what they intended to do with it.

Wilburstream, A little more info on the Ford would help. I assume they only used one 6 cyl in '97 - a V-6. If not, what is the displacement. If it was the old inline 300, I'd say it could handle it. How is it geared and sprung etc.? I see from other posts that Canadians seem to be comfortable towing with big RWD cars. I'd bet that the Crown Vic would do as well as the 6cyl truck with proper set up.

Roger
I've owned a Bronco and an F-150 with the 300 straight six, and neither one of them was any good at towing. The F-150 was only rated at 1500 lbs. max. Great engine though, they both went 300,000 miles.

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Old 03-08-2009, 03:23 PM   #17
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I have had 2 F150's 1988 & 1992 both with 5 speeds and 1 1977 F100 with 4 speed, all with inline 300 6 cyls, all reg cab long beds. the only thing I did is change the springs on them and add a Class IV hitch mounted to the frame and never had a bit of trouble towing trailers under 5000 lbs gross weight. Drawback on the 77 with the 4 speed was speed, at 55 mph the engine sounded like it was screaming, it was not meant for highway use. On the 88 & 92 drawback was that you could not use the over drive or 5th (as on some) gear on a hill or even an incline, but once you dropped into 4th that was a different story.
Like I said before you have to look at the set up, Ford did put 2 different setups in these trucks.
Like one other mentioned here though and you should take into account is the fact that in a pull you would have to down shift, something you dont have to worry about with an automatic.
If given the choice I would rather tow with a stick shift vs an automatic, of coarse I have been towing trailers of all kinds since I started driving at the age of 10 (14 legally), then as a truck driver age 20. My family have been in camping most all my life.
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Old 03-10-2009, 05:51 AM   #18
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The Crown Vic has had a 2000 # tow rating for several years (at least 8) The car was lightened up because people that wanted to tow never bought one. That saved some manufacturing costs and it got better MPG.

The 1997 F150 manual tranny will not tow that load. The V-6 with a stick was meant to be a MPG leader. That year 4X2 with the 4.2 v-6 required an automatic, 3.55 axle, wd hitch and trailer tow package to get 4600 #'s of tow capacity.

Your 01 Safari is almost 5000 #'s dry and could get to 6300 #'s fully loaded. Your TV choices so far were not designed by the car maker to do the job you are asking it to do.


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Old 03-10-2009, 06:00 AM   #19
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The Crown Vic has had a 2000 # tow rating for several years (at least 8)
Here's your eight years. I think you'll find the Crown Vic at only 1,500 pounds for 2002-2007 and just bunched in with all "Ford Cars" for 1,000 pounds for 2008-2009.
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Old 03-10-2009, 10:26 AM   #20
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Thanks for the link!

I believe in 1993 Crown Vic/Grand Marquis and Town Car lightened up to a 2000 # rating. And it has only gone down from there. The buying public wanted SUVs and trucks for towables.

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Old 03-11-2009, 06:18 AM   #21
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The 1997 F150 manual tranny will not tow that load. The V-6 with a stick was meant to be a MPG leader. That year 4X2 with the 4.2 v-6 required an automatic, 3.55 axle, wd hitch and trailer tow package to get 4600 #'s of tow capacity. . >>Action
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I don't see how you can make a statement like that based on opinion,, I have had this particular vehicle and only changes made was to upgrade the springs and add a class IV hitch, I towed many things the same size & weight of this trailer without problems. The only drawback I found is you can not use the OD on a hill, you have to drop to 4 gear.
Other than that it served me well.

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Old 03-11-2009, 06:45 AM   #22
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I believe in 1993 Crown Vic/Grand Marquis and Town Car lightened up to a 2000 # rating. And it has only gone down from there.

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This article by Mr. T explains the Crown Vic towing situation.....

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Old 03-11-2009, 08:04 AM   #23
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Action,
I don't see how you can make a statement like that based on opinion,, I have had this particular vehicle and only changes made was to upgrade the springs and add a class IV hitch, I towed many things the same size & weight of this trailer without problems. The only drawback I found is you can not use the OD on a hill, you have to drop to 4 gear.
Other than that it served me well.

Sarge
What kind of mpgs do you get towing and not towing?
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Old 03-11-2009, 08:47 AM   #24
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Action,
I don't see how you can make a statement like that based on opinion,, I have had this particular vehicle and only changes made was to upgrade the springs and add a class IV hitch, I towed many things the same size & weight of this trailer without problems. The only drawback I found is you can not use the OD on a hill, you have to drop to 4 gear.
Other than that it served me well.

Sarge
I can make the towing limit statement based on published data from the manufacturer. Ford built the truck to tow 4600 #'s with an auto tranny and Ford Motor Company states so in their publications. The manual transmission of any light truck (under 8600 GVWR) that Ford built in the last 30 years is not designed to handle big loads.

I have also worked for the company in the service end of things. (Not a dealership) The company introduced a V-6 F150 stick in the 80's (for MPG ratings) that one of my engineer friends said was overloaded with a passenger and a briefcase. Light trucks (under 8600 GVWR) with base equipment are part of the counters. They count for better MPGs in CAFE and are price leaders in marketing. Not really built to handle big loads. I consider a big load to be 2 tons or better.

Can it be overloaded? Or can one add items to make the vehicle do more than it was designed? Sure. I have done so too. However the manufacturer designed it to do a certain job. Beyond that you are your own builder and risk taker.

Sarge - In your experience of the 3 trucks you list above the 300 straight six is in a differnt category than I speak about above. The 300 had piles of torque however as you mention it isn't a high speed engine. The other F-150's you are light on details. The original poster is referencing the smallest engine available in the F-150 line up with a manual transmission. That 1997 unit is not designed to pull the weight of that Safari, not based on what I say, based on what Ford and Airstrem puts out. Airstream states the total GVWR can get to 6300 #'s and Ford states a F-150 with that engine can only tow 4600#'s and it requires the automatic transmission among other things. With out the automatic that F-150 won't evn do the 4600 #'s. So that combo is over loaded and for most people it isn't a good thing.

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Old 03-16-2009, 12:23 PM   #25
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MPG's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumatic View Post
What kind of mpgs do you get towing and not towing?
It has been a few years since I have had this vehicle, so I really dont remember.
Sorry

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Old 03-16-2009, 01:10 PM   #26
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I can make the towing limit statement based on published data from the manufacturer. Ford built the truck to tow 4600 #'s with an auto tranny and Ford Motor Company states so in their publications. The manual transmission of any light truck (under 8600 GVWR) that Ford built in the last 30 years is not designed to handle big loads.

I have also worked for the company in the service end of things. (Not a dealership) The company introduced a V-6 F150 stick in the 80's (for MPG ratings) that one of my engineer friends said was overloaded with a passenger and a briefcase. Light trucks (under 8600 GVWR) with base equipment are part of the counters. They count for better MPGs in CAFE and are price leaders in marketing. Not really built to handle big loads. I consider a big load to be 2 tons or better.

Can it be overloaded? Or can one add items to make the vehicle do more than it was designed? Sure. I have done so too. However the manufacturer designed it to do a certain job. Beyond that you are your own builder and risk taker.

Sarge - In your experience of the 3 trucks you list above the 300 straight six is in a differnt category than I speak about above. The 300 had piles of torque however as you mention it isn't a high speed engine. The other F-150's you are light on details. The original poster is referencing the smallest engine available in the F-150 line up with a manual transmission. That 1997 unit is not designed to pull the weight of that Safari, not based on what I say, based on what Ford and Airstrem puts out. Airstream states the total GVWR can get to 6300 #'s and Ford states a F-150 with that engine can only tow 4600#'s and it requires the automatic transmission among other things. With out the automatic that F-150 won't evn do the 4600 #'s. So that combo is over loaded and for most people it isn't a good thing.
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XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXX
Action let me break this into parts Q & A;
Q:Ford built the truck to tow 4600 #'s with an auto tranny and Ford Motor Company states so in their publications. The manual transmission of any light truck (under 8600 GVWR) that Ford built in the last 30 years is not designed to handle big loads.
A: This is one of those statements Auto makers put in because of lawsuits, this particular tranny was used not only in the F 100,150 but was also in the 250 as well. What restricted the towing class was the spring set up, this was available in Light- for running around town and HD- for towing and again they only changed the springs on them.
Q: I have also worked for the company in the service end of things. (Not a dealership) The company introduced a V-6 F150 stick in the 80's (for MPG ratings) that one of my engineer friends said was overloaded with a passenger and a briefcase. Light trucks (under 8600 GVWR) with base equipment are part of the counters. They count for better MPGs in CAFE and are price leaders in marketing. Not really built to handle big loads. I consider a big load to be 2 tons or better.
A: This is very true and one of the biggest mistakes ford ever made when they replaced the 300 inline 6 with the V6 which is like you say, little unknown fact at the time ford introduced the V6 westerns and the movie Urban Cowboy was at their high again and everyone was a wanna be.
Q: Can it be overloaded? Or can one add items to make the vehicle do more than it was designed? Sure. I have done so too. However the manufacturer designed it to do a certain job. Beyond that you are your own builder and risk taker.
A: In most cases especially with foriegn vehicles and the mini trucks that the big 3 made is definately the case. but with regular size pickups they was primarely designed for farm & small business work, the frame and such had not changed in years only the bodies and engines, thus the slight mods that can be made was not over doing the vehicle. of coarse I am not saying that you can take an F150 and turn it into a 3/4 or 1 ton because you are talking about a big difference in frames and stuff, however the 100 & 150 was built in 2 set ups 1/2 and heavy 1/2 and the latter was for small business and pulling campers. if you could go back in time to the 70's,80's, 90's (up to 98 or 99) and went to a dealer and ordered a pickup for a camper 25 foot in length what you would have gotten is a heavy 1/2. in fact that set up worked so well that Ford has brought it back out in the 08 to current 150's but with some mods such as the box frame, more cross members, lighter and stronger metal.
Q: Sarge - In your experience of the 3 trucks you list above the 300 straight six is in a differnt category than I speak about above. The 300 had piles of torque however as you mention it isn't a high speed engine. The other F-150's you are light on details.
A: Thats what all my trucks I had was in them. the Inline 300 was also known as a bulldog 300 and the motor not only had tork, fuel milage, but was almost indestructable. Another reason ford stopped making them, presure from Chev & Dodge, as well as the motors was lasting too long. And in a rebuild you very very rarely had to sleave the cylenders because of so little wear. In 2007 I found a 1989 F150 with a bulldog 300 & 4 speed with OD and bought it because of the durability. Added the Class IV hitch (frame mounted) and spring overloads for a F150, because I had a 16' flat cargo trler that i pulled around with motorcycles on it, I could load 2 dressers and 2 regular bikes and never even know they was there. Later when I was forced to trade because of a favor I done for someone I sold it for twice what I paid for it.
Q: The original poster is referencing the smallest engine available in the F-150 line up with a manual transmission. That 1997 unit is not designed to pull the weight of that Safari, not based on what I say, based on what Ford and Airstrem puts out. Airstream states the total GVWR can get to 6300 #'s and Ford states a F-150 with that engine can only tow 4600#'s and it requires the automatic transmission among other things. With out the automatic that F-150 won't evn do the 4600 #'s. So that combo is over loaded and for most people it isn't a good thing.
A: if he is then you are correct with what you are saying as far as towing, they was not made to tow just what you put in the bed and even then that was not much use. When I read it I was under the impression that he was refering to the type I was talking about, it is not uncommon to confuse the 2 because they are identical in appearance. It is like I said in my orginal post and if you look I mention both types and he would have to see which one he has to know whether he can tow with that truck or not.
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:11 PM   #27
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I believe the transmission set up has everything to do with the clutch size and nothing to do with the manual transmission. Those manual transmissions have a very small clutch that can be burnt with the slightest load. And it is what the manufacturer has designed to meet a specific market niche. That set up isn't designed to take any load. It is the inexpensive entry level pick up truck. If one wants to over load the vehicle (based on the manufacturer's limits) that is their choice. Just because it has a box in the back doesn't mean it was designed to tow.

The change from the straight six was based on emissions and fuel economy. It was a good engine to do the work and it survived for many years because of this. However the change was not a mistake it was done on purpose. The engine was not designed for electronics and did not lend it self to run clean. So the government elected by the people created that change. And it is spilled milk to talk aboiut that engine (and so many others) cause the engine ain't available any more! - Other greats in my opinion are FE block, 302, 250 six for passenger cars, 429.

The heavy half had a GVWR over 8600 #'s. This allowed any manufacturer to not comply with many regulations. (Emmissions, MPG safety and other things) Thus all manufactures built these vehicles (heck I have a heavy 1/2 Van) and charged more because the market would pay. And in the 80's and later buyers wanted options. So options were available to all. Not just the F-150 wanna be cowboy. Even 1 ton rigs got PW, PDL and tilt wheel, not to mention AM-FM, A/C and auto tranny. Things that were never available in the 70's and 60's. Buyers were willing to pay for them and the car companies were very willing to put them in.

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Old 03-17-2009, 09:09 AM   #28
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end of conversation

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I believe the transmission set up has everything to do with the clutch size and nothing to do with the manual transmission. Those manul transmissions have a very small clutch that can be burnt with the slightest load. And it is what the manufacturer has designed to meet a specific market niche. That set up isn't designed to take any load. It is the inexpensive entry level pick up truck. If one wants to over load the vehicle (based on the manufacturer's limits) that is their choice. Just because it has a box in the back doesn't mean it was designed to tow.

The change from the straight six was based on emissions and fuel economy. It was a good engine to do the work and it survived for many years because of this. However the change was not a mistake it was done on purpose. The engine was not designed for electronics and did not lend it self to run clean. So the government elected by the people created that change. And it is spilled milk to talk aboiut that engine (and so many others) cause the engine ain't available any more! - Other greats in my opinion are FE block, 302, 250 six for passenger cars, 429.

The heavy half had a GVWR over 8600 #'s. This allowed any manufacturer to not comply with many regulations. (Emmissions, MPG safety and other things) Thus all manufactures built these vehicles (heck I have a heavy 1/2 Van) and charged more because the market would pay. And in the 80's and later buyers wanted options. So options were available to all. Not just the F-150 wanna be cowboy. Even 1 ton rigs got PW, PDL and tilt wheel, not to mention AM-FM, A/C and auto tranny. Things that were never available in the 70's and 60's. Buyers were willing to pay for them and the car companies were very willing to put them in.
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XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXX
Well it comes to this you can believe what you read or not, believe what you want. I know better.
Given that I grew up in Michigan around the Big 3, family has worked there, family friends have worked there, I have worked for both Ford & GM, and have knowledge of details in the company that most don't have access too, given that most of the vehicles I have owned have been Fords, also given that my 22 years of my life has been in the transportation business with a perfect safety record, I have real experience with hauling from the size of a pickup to multiple axle semis.
I have personal knowledge and experience, I will keep it to myself because I am not going to argue with someone who has read something and takes it as fact over experience...

If anyone wants my advice or wishes to pick my brain feel free to PM me, I will do my best to answer your questions.

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