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Old 05-15-2016, 08:48 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Wanna EB View Post
One other aspect (beyond payload) of the difference between 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton which I have been thinking about it the difference in mass. I haven't done a through study, but it looks like there is about a 1500 to 2000 pound difference in curb weight between a 1/2 ton gas and a 3/4 ton diesel. On the surface, I would expect that to translate into the TT's natural motions having less impact on the TV. I am just thinking here, not offering any facts.
Think of it as moving mass and the advantage of additional weight becomes less and disadvantages become greater.

Think of using a pivot point projection hitch on each and there is no trailer movement leveraged to either tow vehicle steering axle, extra weight only becomes a disadvantage.

That's a major reason why we prefer to use a 1/2 ton truck and pivot point projection hitch, and manage the gear we carry accordingly.
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Old 05-15-2016, 10:32 AM   #156
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Per Ram website a Ram Eco Diesel 4X4 with shortbed has a payload rating of 1052# to 1177#, depending on the trim. Thats less than some mid size SUVs. Ford or GM equivalents have at least 500# more payload. We all know that WDH moves some weight to trailer axles and other optimizations can be made (travel light/no spare/replace batteries/etc). However, 1100# is not much and can easily be exceeded. Furthermore, you would have no flexibility. Want to take along 2 guests? you can't as you don't have an extra 400# of payload. I don't understand your insistence on others using an EcoDiesel (or 1/2 ton for that matter) when their payload requirement are different than yours.
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Old 05-15-2016, 11:00 AM   #157
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My F350 Crew Cab, 6.6 bed, 6.7 Diesel has a payload capacity on the door of 3,382 pounds. Specifically stated on the door - Passengers and Cargo.
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Old 05-15-2016, 12:08 PM   #158
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Look to the axle and tire ratings. Means more. Payload is relative, not to mention misleading.

There are a lot more differences in payload capabilities in a row vehicle than just tires and axle rating.This is a popular misconception.


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Old 05-15-2016, 12:09 PM   #159
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F150 EB owners who have moved to F250/F350?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Think of it as moving mass and the advantage of additional weight becomes less and disadvantages become greater.



Think of using a pivot point projection hitch on each and there is no trailer movement leveraged to either tow vehicle steering axle, extra weight only becomes a disadvantage.



That's a major reason why we prefer to use a 1/2 ton truck and pivot point projection hitch, and manage the gear we carry accordingly.

Huh?? Where did this come from?
Weight has no merit.Try hooking your trailer to a riding lawn mower with a pivot point hitch of course , then head down a steep hill.Come back and tell us then how the weight and the length of a tow vehicle is a disadvantage.Lol


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Old 05-15-2016, 12:50 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Think of it as moving mass and the advantage of additional weight becomes less and disadvantages become greater.

Think of using a pivot point projection hitch on each and there is no trailer movement leveraged to either tow vehicle steering axle, extra weight only becomes a disadvantage.

That's a major reason why we prefer to use a 1/2 ton truck and pivot point projection hitch, and manage the gear we carry accordingly.
I've read this statement a couple of times and I guess I am definitely in the slow group as I seem to be missing something.

I tow with a PP hitch and have used equalizer hitch as well. They tow very well and the PP I absolutely love. That said, it's hard for me to understand how the benefits of a 3/4 to 1 ton trucks extra weight and brake size could not be beneficial to someone depending on their travel terrain or carrying specifics and how this would become a disadvantage in a towing situation.

Chuck
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Old 05-15-2016, 01:10 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
Look to the axle and tire ratings. Means more. Payload is relative, not to mention misleading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moflash View Post
There are a lot more differences in payload capabilities in a row vehicle than just tires and axle rating.This is a popular misconception.


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I'm not sure I understand either of these arguments. In what sense is payload "misleading"?

As far as I understand it, "payload" is just GVWR - curb weight, which is specific to each vehicle (which is why you have to look at the door sticker). Each axle and tire also has its own rating, and sometimes the the combined axle ratings or combined tire ratings may be higher than the GVWR. Are you guys just saying that it's okay to exceed payload / GVWR as long as you don't exceed axle or tire ratings?

Either way, I'm not sure what is meant by calling payload "misleading."
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Old 05-15-2016, 02:29 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Think of it as moving mass and the advantage of additional weight becomes less and disadvantages become greater.

Think of using a pivot point projection hitch on each and there is no trailer movement leveraged to either tow vehicle steering axle, extra weight only becomes a disadvantage.

That's a major reason why we prefer to use a 1/2 ton truck and pivot point projection hitch, and manage the gear we carry accordingly.
Two thousand extra pound vehicle is more more top heavy and more likely to roll over in sudden change of direction, that is more difficult because of extra weight, more weight to stop and more weight to accelerate, more weight to suspend requiring stiffer suspension, more weight to buy and maintain and fuel.

That's few of the disadvantages we looked at, all favoring our half-ton truck.

The question is, are we less stable because we are 2000 lbs lighter. Our answer is no, we use a Hensley/Propide hitch which is rock solid, two fingers on the steering wheel control. We have no use for the disadvantages of 2000 lbs more truck.

Yes, some Airstreamers need a larger truck for more load capacity, no argument with that, we are fine.

The idea that we need 2000 lbs more truck for more stability is simply untrue. If we wanted better stability and more control, we would go the other direction, lower center of gravity, full independent suspension.

P.S. We did try two other style w.d. hitches to get the overall level of absolute stability and control we wanted. We could not get there until we got the pivot point projection hitch. Two finger stability and control, we could use only one but we don't want to risk it.
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Old 05-15-2016, 03:10 PM   #163
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GVWR LESS ACTUAL WEIGHT = CAPACITY as presented by factory.

It isn't mystical.




Superat stultitia.
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Old 05-15-2016, 06:17 PM   #164
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GVWR LESS ACTUAL WEIGHT = CAPACITY as presented by factory.

It isn't mystical.




Superat stultitia.

Which is a recommendation. You own the vehicle, not them.

Axle and tire limits are what matter. At most.

The rest is tail chasing.
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Old 05-15-2016, 08:47 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
Which is a recommendation.
Not in my vehicle's owner manual. The exact words are "The total load must be limited so that you do not exceed the GVWR."

You're right, it's your vehicle. Do with it what you will. But in the (admittedly very unlikely) case that you're directed into a weigh station, be prepared to leave some of that payload behind.

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Old 05-15-2016, 09:50 PM   #166
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"You're right, it's your vehicle. Do with it what you will. But in the (admittedly very unlikely) case that you're directed into a weigh station, be prepared to leave some of that payload behind."

That would apply to commercial vehicles, not recreational.
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Old 05-16-2016, 11:56 AM   #167
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I have been following this thread for quite a while now, and what is missing is anyone who has had a real crisis. It appears from here that:

1.) A 3/4 ton tow vehicle can carry a lot more cargo and tongue weight while remaining within regulatory and design limitations. If said 3/4 ton vehicle has a relatively large torque diesel engine, it will have greater pulling capacity.

2.) A larger tow vehicle is more difficult to use when not towing, simply because it is larger. It also will likely get somewhat lower fuel economy.

It seems to me to be a fairly simple equation. If one has a larger and heavier trailer, more torque and a larger vehicle may be in order. If, as we do, one wishes to carry a substantial load in the tow vehicle and tow a larger/heavier trailer, then a larger tow vehicle is probably a good idea. In the final analysis, if the load plus the tow plus the hitch exceed the manufacturer's recommended specs it is probably a bad combination.

In our case, because we do carry a heck of a load of telescopes and equipment in the truck bed and pull a 27' Eddie Bauer, a 3/4 ton is virtually mandated. More, because we routinely take said combination off prepared surfaces and into fields (as the EB is designed to do) our Silverado 2500 Duramax 4x4 is the right fit. For others with less demanding requirements, a 1/2 ton Eco-friendly tow vehicle is probably a better idea.
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Old 05-16-2016, 02:14 PM   #168
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Would it not be boring if we all had the same trailer, same truck and carried the same load. I do wonder what we would post if that was the case. Makes for interesting reading. The great thing is that people, in an effort to help out others, are giving their experiences, good and bad. One of the wonderful things about this site.
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