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Old 12-08-2008, 02:45 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safari 28 View Post
I know you guys love your diesels, but the numbers for maint over a gasser is significant. Add that to the cost of diesel and this is a real issue for those on the edge making a decision to justify a diesel. I have 23k on our 08 5.4, 4 oil changes @ dealer for less than 30.00 each and no real other filters need changing for at least 50-60k.
Hmmm.. Please post your experience towing with deezul for comparison. Was this with the 7.3L or the last PS 6.0L? Having owned and towed with 6 (or 7? I forget…) gassers over the years, and now having towed with diesel for 3 years, I can tell you there is no comparison for tow duty. (I can’t imagine towing our AS or hauling our TC with anything other than diesel after having owned both.)
Deezul isn’t for everyone (aversion to hp/torque for instance), but I can tell you, based on my experience with both, some of these rumors are just that…
Maintenance and fuel cost for instance. A gasser used for towing will be subject to the “heavy duty” maintenance schedule (read; more frequent) for diesel this is SOP. My diesel gets serviced once/year, so the reality is my maintenance cost have been substantially less than with my gassers as diesel has quite a bit longer service intervals. Which is an advantage in itself when out for lengthy road trips!
My last 3 small blocks were all set up pretty much the same 5.3l, 3:73 (one had 4:10’s, but I never saw any measurable difference). Cost of diesel fuel is currently running slightly higher, but is more than offset by increase in mileage. All vehicles run with syn oil in sump.
Here’s a comparison of my fuel costs small block GM vs. DuraMax;

Useable Tank of diesel towing (26 gal tank) = $104/315 miles
Useable Tank of gas towing (35 gal tank) = $105/285 miles

Useable Tank of diesel not towing (26 gal tank) = $104/504 miles
Useable Tank of gas not towing (35 gal tank) = $105/465 miles

This is based on cost of $4/gal deezul…$3/gal dinosaur juice. (I never saw a full $1 spread, but I’ll even give gas a head start here…) As the spread narrows, of course, diesel gets more of an advantage.

Towing with a diesel is like making love; until you’ve done it, you’re very curious…you might even think it’s noisy and dirty (!), but you just don’t know how good it feels!

(Note;
Usable tank = actually usage, ~ ¼ tank remaining. I never run my tank to “Eeeee!)

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Old 12-09-2008, 12:30 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by mmth11053
Diesel is the only way to go....
Hi, if Diesel was the only way to go, there wouldn't be any gas engine tow vehicles out there; If that was true, but it's not.

As for the battle over cost between the two sources of power, there are too many variables and this discussion has gone full circle. Diesel has been lower than gas for a long time. Now Diesel is more than gas. It's just like milk, eggs, apples, and oranges the prices are always changing up and down and you can calculate until you are blue in the face. It doesn't matter; People buy what they want, need, and can afford. Smaller loads can be pulled very well with a properly equipted gas vehicle and when you get into the larger, heavier loads, they become Diesel territory. You decide the breaking point. I picked 7,000 lbs and under for gas. [my opinion]
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Old 12-09-2008, 07:27 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, if Diesel was the only way to go, there wouldn't be any gas engine tow vehicles out there; If that was true, but it's not.

As for the battle over cost between the two sources of power, there are too many variables and this discussion has gone full circle. Diesel has been lower than gas for a long time. Now Diesel is more than gas. It's just like milk, eggs, apples, and oranges the prices are always changing up and down and you can calculate until you are blue in the face. It doesn't matter; People buy what they want, need, and can afford. Smaller loads can be pulled very well with a properly equipted gas vehicle and when you get into the larger, heavier loads, they become Diesel territory. You decide the breaking point. I picked 7,000 lbs and under for gas. [my opinion]
Exactly…but some of the stuff people come out with is just not true. I don’t understand when Folks give an opinion based on hearsay, not experience…

I will say again though, once you tow with diesel, it would be hard to ever go back, makes for a much easier day behind the wheel.

Perhaps we will see even more choices in diesel power in the near future?
This could only be good for people who tow, and for the environment.
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Old 12-09-2008, 08:29 AM   #158
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I tow with a 2007 F250 Crew Cab Diesel. I've had two V10s prior and if I had to do it again, I'd go back to the V10. The motor was quieter, only got 1 mpg worse towing, the maintenance was cheaper and the initial cost was less.

This article from pickups.com illustrates how there is virtually no difference towing with the gas engine under fairly normal conditions towing a 10,500lb trailer.

Ford:


The entire article which is rather lengthy is located here:


It tested all three HD pickups in diesel and gas configurations.
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Old 12-09-2008, 09:15 AM   #159
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I ran this thought of severe duty by the dealer. By changing oil every 5k miles and inspection of trans fluid and misc, it appears that is all that is needed and all other major stuff is at 60k. Trans fluid was recently analyzed and perfect. Really, where severe duty comes in is very short runs with engine not meeting proper temps or overheating and this thing I run hard in the rockies and sierras and the temp gauge does not budge. Now, to be fair,all towing is done between oct- april.

Not wanting to open a can of worms here, I know a diesel will pull freight train, just important sharing of information to help us all realize the new gassers have improved big time, and for some us not needed. My multiple cross country runs( currently on the 5th run for this truck Mich. to calif and back) towing a 28 is a test of endurance for any tow vehicle. Not so much as peep from under the hood.
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Old 12-09-2008, 12:56 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by 62 Overlander View Post
I tow with a 2007 F250 Crew Cab Diesel. I've had two V10s prior and if I had to do it again, I'd go back to the V10. The motor was quieter, only got 1 mpg worse towing, the maintenance was cheaper and the initial cost was less.

This article from pickups.com illustrates how there is virtually no difference towing with the gas engine under fairly normal conditions towing a 10,500lb trailer.

Ford:


The entire article which is rather lengthy is located here:



It tested all three HD pickups in diesel and gas configurations.
Yes, you and timemachine have had negative experiences with the old generation Ford diesel.
Let’s hope the latest diesel offering from Ford is better. The Cummins is known for it’s efficiency and durability, and the DuraMax is quickly earning the same reputation.
I towed a 25’ recently for a friend, with his BB gasser. I’ll take the diesel any day for towing…
The new common rail injection engines much quieter, more efficient, cleaner, and way better for the environment than gassers.
As noted, diesel is not for everyone, and if you had a bad experience, I am sure it would leave a bad taste…
If you want a BB, I’d grab one soon. I can’t believe in the current automotive climate that they’ll be around much longer.
It is more likelywe will be seeing more diesel technology in the future. I understand both Ford and the General have small diesels slated, even for the next gen of ½ tons. BB will be goin the way of buggy whips…

Looking at that article, it’s curious that the Ford shows almost no advantage for the diesel when comparing fuel usage versus, but the Cummins and Duramax do. But the Ford also has different final gear ratios, unlike the others. These numbers confirm what I said above about the Cummins and the Duramax.
Anywho, I suspect in the near future, you may have no choice except to drive a diesel when it comes to trucks…

I don't have a Ford manual but GM describes “severe duty” as; towing, or very hot, dusty conditions, and heavy loads”. I guess these don’t apply to Fords…
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Old 12-09-2008, 01:42 PM   #161
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Trouble wise, my 6.0 has had no problems (50,000 miles). My overall gripe is the noise (GM has really done a great job in this dept) and the cost of oil/fuel filter changes. I did the last one myself and for 16 qts of oil, oil filter and two fuel filters the bill was $141.00. The price of diesel is becoming a little more reasonable, but it is still about 80 cents to 1 dollar a gallon higher than gas.

Yes, I will continue to drive one - it won't be paid for for a couple of more years - ugh!

Fords definition of Severe duty reads the same...
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Old 12-09-2008, 05:02 PM   #162
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Interesting that you feel gas 1/2 tons will be history. I hope not. The additional cost upfront is over 10k, the maint is much higher and fuel cost is showing stability being much higher as well. What would cause them to give up on gas engines? It seems to me they will be looking at all angles to keep cost and affordability a high priority. Fuel mileage can be improved with 6 speed trans, possible turbo or super charging and the use of cng a factory installed option. What will kill our choices will be the big 3 melted into 1. Then we can only hope the asian and european mfg. produce vehicles that will do the job we and many hard working americans need.
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Old 12-09-2008, 05:47 PM   #163
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Well put

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, if Diesel was the only way to go, there wouldn't be any gas engine tow vehicles out there; If that was true, but it's not.

Smaller loads can be pulled very well with a properly equipted gas vehicle and when you get into the larger, heavier loads, they become Diesel territory. You decide the breaking point. I picked 7,000 lbs and under for gas. [my opinion]
I will go with Bob's rule of thumb, I agree the tilting point is around 7,000 lbs, depending on the users particular circumstances and needs. I have pulled with both gas and diesel TV's, so I do have some reference point.
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Old 12-09-2008, 06:24 PM   #164
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a twist

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Yes, you and timemachine have had negative experiences with the old generation Ford diesel.
BillTex, I agree that I have a bad taste from my 6.0 Ford diesel experience, but only with cautious concern, it is hard to argue the value of a diesel vehicle for a strong performing TV.

Back to the original poster, who is probably asleep by now, I believe your Airstream is on the tipping point, and a F250 diesel is a great option without question, but a properly equipped F150 would do the job, and would be my choice if you towed less than 5000 miles per year and you needed the truck as a daily driver. I would especially be inclined to go with the 2009 F150 considering the new upgrades including the integrated (like the Super Duty) trailer brake controller and the anti-sway system. I don't think there is a wrong answer.
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Old 12-10-2008, 04:43 PM   #165
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...the cost of oil/fuel filter changes. I did the last one myself and for 16 qts of oil, oil filter and two fuel filters the bill was $141.00...
Wow, I take my F-250 to my local Ford dealer and the cost of the oil change (15 Qts), oil filter change, and drain the moisture separator is $69.99. Two fuel filters every 10,000 miles brings it up a bit, but nothing like $141!
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Old 12-10-2008, 06:48 PM   #166
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Wow, I take my F-250 to my local Ford dealer and the cost of the oil change (15 Qts), oil filter change, and drain the moisture separator is $69.99. Two fuel filters every 10,000 miles brings it up a bit, but nothing like $141!

I do this myself in 10 minutes for under $55. I do buy the oil in bulk and the Motorcraft filters at Walmart.
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Old 12-10-2008, 08:20 PM   #167
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I should shop around I suppose. I went back to the bill and it was $64.99 for the fuel filters, $19.99 for the oil filter (all the filters were Motorcraft) and $45.96 for 16 quarts of Chevron Delo400 15-40 - plus tax. This was at O'Reilly Auto Parts.
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Old 12-10-2008, 09:36 PM   #168
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I could do it myself but then I have all this oil to dispose of and taking it to a auto parts store and paying for disposal seems to eat up as much time as going to my Ford dealer. Besides giving them the business has resulted in a good relationship that has saved me tons in other services over the years.
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