Equalizer hitch really needed on a F-250 Superduty?

[Ultradog]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Some of you guys need to do a lot more reading. Or thinking.

What other trailer type has the high center of gravity and the huge sail area of a travel trailer?

Answer: none.



As to others not using them? Can't fix stupid.

.

I see a LOT of big enclosed cargo trailers on the road. Big boxy things - 24+' long. Roofing, siding and gutter contractors have them. They would likely be more prone to wind effects because they are square. Yet I never see any kind of wd or sway control on them.
I also see a lot of SOBs on the road. They are likewise big square boxy things and more often than not they have no wd or sc.
Are all those people really just stupid?
Those are just the ones with similar sail area to an AS.
As for the millions of utility, boat and equipment trailers on the road -which of course don't have the sail area - but do weigh more than a TT and they almost never have a wd on them. Are those people just stupid too?
Airstreamers seem to love all those add ons. That's just fine with me.
Maybe it increases your comfort level.
But to say that everyone needs that stuff or else they are stupid is not only out of line, it is also evidence of a smug lack of understanding on your part.

[slowmover]

You failed as well.

What's the floor height? That and sail area tell a lot. Some trailer types are quickly affected by winds. Some are not. I recommend you measure floor height on an AS and then on an SOB with slide-outs. Why does that matter?

Hitch receiver limitations are first for most. Wind problems for those paying any attention.

And I seriously doubt you have as many miles or decades. Or types of loads or equipment. Not to mention conditions.

If you don't understand how WD works (the margin it provides), you probably don't understand that a GN or 5'er hitch loads both TV axles. FALR. Why is that?

The vehicle operator is always charged with best performance.

Thus:

What's the highest speed at which your rig can do an emergency double lane change? What is your total emergency stopping distance? Better or worse with a WDH?

Why haven't you done these basics?

Test and decide for yourself. I guarantee those others don't. An Eaz-Lift WDH is dirt-cheap for a one time set of tests given potential consequences.

Scale the lash-up, and have at it. What was the best setting per scale values? The best TV tire pressure front & rear? The fuel economy change?

Let's not hear excuses about skill or experience. Don't talk to me about arrogance. Prove it to yourself.

.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Ultradog

I see a LOT of big enclosed cargo trailers on the road. Big boxy things - 24+' long. Roofing, siding and gutter contractors have them. They would likely be more prone to wind effects because they are square. Yet I never see any kind of wd or sway control on them.
I also see a lot of SOBs on the road. They are likewise big square boxy things and more often than not they have no wd or sc.
Are all those people really just stupid?
Those are just the ones with similar sail area to an AS.
As for the millions of utility, boat and equipment trailers on the road -which of course don't have the sail area - but do weigh more than a TT and they almost never have a wd on them. Are those people just stupid too?
Airstreamers seem to love all those add ons. That's just fine with me.
Maybe it increases your comfort level.
But to say that everyone needs that stuff or else they are stupid is not only out of line, it is also evidence of a smug lack of understanding on your part.

Sway and WD equipment is good. But the way lots of people toss around advice on hitches and where to get insurance that pays out the most on this forum, and talk about how fast they can get up and down the mountains, is a little scary.

[wildhorses]

Originally Posted by slowmover

And I seriously doubt you have as many miles or decades. Or types of loads or equipment. Not to mention conditions.

The problem with bragging about "I have done it bigger, longer and better than you" - is that there is always someone out there that has probably done it more than you.

Originally Posted by slowmover

What's the highest speed at which your rig can do an emergency double lane change? What is your total emergency stopping distance? Better or worse with a WDH?

Since the tires we put on our Airstreams are designed not to exceed 65 mph, I can vouch that I can do a double lane change easily without a WD hitch at 65 mph. And if the brakes are set properly on the trailer you don't need a WD hitch to stop.

[Bill M.]

I use a WD hitch with my 2500. Is it okay to keep on doing that or will I be safer if I take it off and run on just the ball?

[Airtandem]

Jim Pantas, that trailer has been side swiped. Cheap or expensive on hitch would have saved it or had it been on a ball. Hope no one was hurt.

Check wheel placement on boat and some haulers also how they are loaded. Weight is usually over the wheels. The wheels are to the rear of the trailer or it is a short wheel based trailer
Mj

[Ultradog]

Originally Posted by wildhorses

The problem with bragging about "I have done it bigger, longer and better than you" - is that there is always someone out there that has probably done it more than you.

Well said.
I didn't know who he was replying to so didn't respond.
But that kind of talk is never productive as he has no idea of the experience of someone else, unless of course it is stated.
But some people just have a need to be right and will go to great lengths to prove it - even if their argument causes a loss to their credibility.

[wildhorses]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

I use a WD hitch with my 2500. Is it okay to keep on doing that or will I be safer if I take it off and run on just the ball?

Whatever makes you feel comfortable, since you already spent the $$ on a WD hitch go ahead and use it. I wouldn't have wasted the $$ on the hitch to begin with, YMMV.

[wildhorses]

Originally Posted by Airtandem

Jim Pantas, that trailer has been side swiped. Cheap or expensive on hitch would have saved it or had it been on a ball. Hope no one was hurt.

I agree, but it also looks like a tire blew out, so I wonder if it happened because they exceeded the speed range on the tires because they thought that WD hitch would save them?

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by wildhorses

I agree, but it also looks like a tire blew out, so I wonder if it happened because they exceeded the speed range on the tires because they thought that WD hitch would save them?

I tried but couldn't read the sidewall on the tires in the pic.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Ultradog

Well said.
I didn't know who he was replying to so didn't respond.
But that kind of talk is never productive as he has no idea of the experience of someone else, unless of course it is stated.
But some people just have a need to be right and will go to great lengths to prove it - even if their argument causes a loss to their credibility.

You are wasting your time with him.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by wildhorses

The problem with bragging about "I have done it bigger, longer and better than you" - is that there is always someone out there that has probably done it more than you.


Since the tires we put on our Airstreams are designed not to exceed 65 mph, I can vouch that I can do a double lane change easily without a WD hitch at 65 mph. And if the brakes are set properly on the trailer you don't need a WD hitch to stop.

Ignoring the questions doesn't answer them. Or it betrays your misunderstanding. Lack of having done an A-B test is likeliest.

And when you find someone with more miles and decades, I'm happy to listen. Always have been. It ain't bragging. It's experience. Pleasure & commercial.

Why you want to give up performance is purely your affair. Explains the ST tires, though. Doesn't matter that one can stop or maneuver, it's a question of how well.

.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

You are wasting your time with him.

The pot calling the kettle black.

Difference is that my range of experience includes more. Trailer types, hitch types and tow vehicles. Over forty years.

And testing

That's the acid that cleans the grime.

Do it for yourself. Criticizing me isn't to any point at all. Good for a laugh.

In short, does the OPs truck require WD? Cheap to find out with an inexpensive WDH and a set-up on the scale. Some driving.

It ain't rocket science. It ain't expensive. It ain't time-consuming.

.

[switz]

A WD hitch is not a cure for an undersized or overloaded tow vehicle. Nor is a WD hitch effective unless a "PROPER" installation has been done. That proper precise installation is an impossibility without the use of scales to verify axle loading front and rear and left and right.

And those numbers do change when the load is varied such as less than a full tank of water or the black tank is still full when pulling out of a no dump station RV park.

As a former commercial pilot, weight and balance calculations were necessary for every flight to be sure the numbers were within limits.

When one leaves the quarry with a load of stone, (the vehicle is weighed empty and full) the net payload number is used to calculate the charge for the gravel, but the gross weight tells the driver if he is overloaded. However that number does not tell the driver if the load is centered or to one side, which can have an impact on handling of the rig.

My responsibility as a driver is to be sure the lug nuts are properly torqued, the tire pressures are correct and tires are in good condition, the brakes are within specs and the load is properly dispersed for proper control. I also need to be realistic about my mental and physical condition to be driving at that time.

A WD hitch can not cure poor/old/underinflated tires that fail. If properly setup, it may help keep control when a tire emergency occurs.

I read lots of the threads here on this forum and others before buying our first Airstream. I looked at lots of "ads" for hitches and folks experiences with the various brands and designs.

Since I had no choice in how high off the ground any of the ¾ ton pickups were built (looks and not safety is the design), I wanted a hitch that would help compensate for the fact that the truck could not be lowered four or five inches to lower the center of gravity.

I switched to an all air bag Kelderman level ride suspension that lowered the rear of the truck so it was at least level. I replaced the marginal factory receiver with a higher rated Curt 15049 receiver that had a much lower receiver position that allowed for a nearly level connection between truck and trailer.

I elected to acquire the ProPride (second generation Jim Hensley design) for the 31' Classic as I had good experiences with the Hensley Arrow on our 25FB towing with both a 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI diesel SUV and the 2012 Ram 2500HD Cummins. The second generation design of anything usually incorporates the experiences learned from the first go around.

I kept the Hensley when the Classic was acquired and later installed it on the 23D that is towed with the Mercedes.

I have no regrets with my hitch selection decisions.

Everyone makes their choice based upon their best evaluation of all the information or the dealer sells what has the greatest margin and gets the trailer off the lot.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If you have an F-250 and a "simple" WD / anti-sway hitch, disabling it is pretty easy. Don't put the bars on and you are back to a basic hitch. With an F-250 the trailer level likely is still pretty close.

Wait for a nice breeze to come up, maybe 20 to 30 MPH of wind. Head out on an empty road . Start out at 20 MPH and work it up from there. Before you hit 60, you likely will be getting some side to side motion. Let it go on for a bit and you will hear what the F-250 chassis anti-sway sounds like in action.

You can practice various combinations of trailer brakes / acceleration / prayer as you see fit. After some number of minutes of this, pull over. Put the bars back on. Drive at the same speeds in the same conditions. .....

Ok, which one do you prefer ? I *know* which one I'll go with. Bopping around / sway / swing isn't just something that flips you over on the highway, it's also a bit tiring to deal with ....

Bob

[Ultradog]

Originally Posted by slowmover

The pot calling the kettle black.

Difference is that my range of experience includes more. Trailer types, hitch types and tow vehicles. Over forty ...

.

Reminds me of my father when I was about 10.
Paraphrased:
"I have all the experience and you have none. So do what I tell you."
My father was neither happy nor well liked.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If you have an F-250 and a "simple" WD / anti-sway hitch, disabling it is pretty easy. Don't put the bars on and you are back to a basic hitch. With an F-250 the trailer level likely is still pretty close.

Wait for a nice breeze to come up, maybe 20 to 30 MPH of wind. Head out on an empty road . Start out at 20 MPH and work it up from there. Before you hit 60, you likely will be getting some side to side motion. Let it go on for a bit and you will hear what the F-250 chassis anti-sway sounds like in action.

You can practice various combinations of trailer brakes / acceleration / prayer as you see fit. After some number of minutes of this, pull over. Put the bars back on. Drive at the same speeds in the same conditions. .....

Ok, which one do you prefer ? I *know* which one I'll go with. Bopping around / sway / swing isn't just something that flips you over on the highway, it's also a bit tiring to deal with ....

Bob

I actually did experiment with my new F-250. While the ride wasn't all that scary it was squirrely. What I discovered while experimenting with the WD on off was that leveling the truck was not the really important game changer. The game changer was transferring weight to the front axle. That by far contributed the most to a stable solid feel on the steering wheel and over all handling. I too am anal about having all the various weight information to dial in the hitch. I weigh the truck empty loaded with and without WD and the same with the trailer. Put on an excel sheet and it will give you clear a concise picture.
Incidentally, I did the same experiment with my former TV a F-150. There again being mislead by believing that leveling the truck was the important thing to do. I installed Firestone airbags to level the truck. That turned out to be a real fiasco. I could level the truck but that threw the suspension completely off and I had no feed back from the steer axle. I had to remove the airbags and dial in the WD to get the weight to the steer axle and lift the rear so the suspension could work as designed.
Experimenting with the air bags on the F-150 was a total waste of time and money.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

I actually did experiment with my new F-250. While the ride wasn't all that scary it was squirrely. What I discovered while experimenting with the WD on off was that leveling the truck was not the really important game changer. The game changer was transferring weight to the front axle. That by far contributed the most to a stable solid feel on the steering wheel and over all handling. I too am anal about having all the various weight information to dial in the hitch. I weigh the truck empty loaded with and without WD and the same with the trailer. Put on an excel sheet and it will give you clear a concise picture.
Incidentally, I did the same experiment with my former TV a F-150. There again being mislead by believing that leveling the truck was the important thing to do. I installed Firestone airbags to level the truck. That turned out to be a real fiasco. I could level the truck but that threw the suspension completely off and I had no feed back from the steer axle. I had to remove the airbags and dial in the WD to get the weight to the steer axle and lift the rear so the suspension could work as designed.
Experimenting with the air bags on the F-150 was a total waste of time and money.

Hi

I've done the "experiment" several times. I'm lazy (that should be no surprise ...) and don't put the bars on for the 15 minute drive to / from storage. The key ingredient in getting things going is a good brisk wind. I suspect that the wind direction also matters a bit.

Bob

[rmkrum]

Try heading down the Long, long Cajon Pass with WD, but no anti-sway whatsoever, and try to hold the speed down. As we used to say in the Navy, the “pucker factor” caused by the obvious attempts of the trailer to come around and drive is rather intense. Even with anti-sway if the WD isn’t dialed in right, the light front axle porpoising away merrily will have a very similar effect. The whole setup has to be dialed in right to assure personal serenity.....and a possible “laundry problem” at a minimum.

Personally, I’d rather avoid self-inflicted ‘E’ ticket rides...

[uncle_bob]

Hi

We tend to pop up these videos of trailers flipping over and say "that's sway". Well, yes, that is sway. It's extreme terminal sway right at the very end of the process. Sway is one of several ways to describe instability in a lash up. Instability in any vehicle makes it hard to control.That leads to fatigue. WD / anti-sway improves stability. It makes things easier to control. Driving tired *also* causes accidents ....

Bob