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Old 02-07-2014, 08:47 AM   #15
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The noise that surrounds this issue is deafening, particularly the arguments that it is environmentally friendly. For those producing the corn, the demand growth and profitability of it has been delightful. For those on the receiving end of having to pay for it, it is frightening. I am frightened, dismayed, and angry.
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:21 AM   #16
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Ethanol has not helped corn prices as they are at $4.31 per bu. yesterday. today at 10:25 AM corn at cargill is $4.3350 per bu.
paper merchants at commodities board control price of corn no one else. Farmers today cannot raise corn at these prices & pay exp. plus make decent earnings for hard work & investments made. E85 gas does not give as much mileage as gas. Before you jump on my back what I stated we grow corn & soy beans on my farm, ask any farmer about what I said. On the other side people complain about ethanol causing high corn prices simply not true as very small proportin goes for ethanol prod. As stated above as to corn prices being low, they were $1.00 A bu. during WW2. The most I ever saw $7.31 2 yrs. ago for2 days prices have fallen ever since... Bill
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Old 02-07-2014, 08:40 PM   #17
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I guess my only point is....whatever we humans do, we need to manage the short and long term affects of our actions. That doesn't mean "don't do it", but rather balance all the ramifications of our decisions and actions. And prepare for them.
Exactly. Although this is about corn and ethanol, I am not a tree hugger but I am bothered by the lack of true environmental management-not attached to political agenda. Consider these two things relating to FL. 1) the natural flow of water that both cleansed the water on its journey to the Everglades now poisons it because land developers built canals to direct the water directly to the glades. The entire state drains off into the glades and estero bay. 2) letting pet snakes loose (pythons, etc) has them now living in the glades killing indigenous species and there is a epidemic of such creatures in FL. The food chain is messed up and we are seeing more and more wild animals wandering into living areas in search of food- bears, gators, deer, panthers, etc. or maybe to avoid the monster snakes.
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:16 PM   #18
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Corn is for cowz & licker.

Bob
Not to mention people and other animals that people eat. People may not eat field corn directly, but it goes into a lot of the food products that we do eat.

So I personally would prefer that we didn't burn it in our engines.

Ken
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:20 PM   #19
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And yet corn is $4.31 a bushel? Supply and demand still works. When mother nature cooperates there is plenty of corn for multiple uses. The fuel issue really surrounds the concept of having multiple, flexible sources....from petroleum to hydrogen...and EVERYTHING in between, with new technologies to utilize them all properly at any given economic, political and environmental time. There IS NO silver bullet.
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Old 02-08-2014, 04:54 AM   #20
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Lots of politics at work here. Big oil. Big Agriculture. Automakers.
The one benefit of staring at it all that with gray hair and a pair of bifocals, is the wisdom of knowing how simple the net objective of legislation and regulation is: Take money out of taxpayer pockets and transfer it to someone who will fill your campaign coffers and/or vote for you so you can do more of the same.

It is what legislators and regulators do. The cause-d-jour varies - the confidence-game is always the same.

For now the hollywood types think Airstreams are cool, but when the morning news starts running stories on the evils of gas guzzling RVs, you'll know we just became the receiving end of the cause-d-jour.
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Old 02-08-2014, 05:05 AM   #21
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Exactly. Although this is about corn and ethanol, I am not a tree hugger but I am bothered by the lack of true environmental management-not attached to political agenda.
That is, I would maintain, because you are a conservationist, not an environmentalist.

A conservationist places high value on a healthy environment but knows that we have no choice but to use our minds and technology to find a balance between the needs of man and nature.

An environmentalist exploits fear and emotion for financial, political and personal gain.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:15 AM   #22
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Just bought a new outboard for my little skiff and Evinrude doesn't even want me to run E10 without using an additive and E15 voids the warranty. Right now, I can still get fuel but in 5 years?

I really don't want to put E15 in my old Nissan Titan TV either. After 164000 miles, it just seems like a good idea to stick with what has been working.

They are already talking about freeing up the export restrictions on US crude oil but I have to burn ethanol to reduce our dependence on foreign oil?

Confused, as usual,

Mike
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:36 AM   #23
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Definition of Environmentalist!

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Originally Posted by Wayward View Post
That is, I would maintain. . . . . .

An environmentalist exploits fear and emotion for financial, political and personal gain.
I can relate to your slightly harsh definition and have known a few that fully meet your criteria. I am sure they would be quite offended by this and would immediately begin to make a lot of noise and feign injury. They want to stand in the light of the camera, stir the pot, and generally listen to the sweetness of their own voice. They grab on or create issues and ride the resulting media wave. In the absence of a good controversy they do tend to decay away to CO2 and compost just like everything else rotting on the forest floor. Their decay is interesting to observe and generally occurs when a louder one shows up and steals the show.
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:43 AM   #24
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Ethanol is an evil and there are no up sides for those of us who are end users of the stuff. I have had alot of corrosion related problems in motorcycles and lawn equipment and also problems with fuel filler hose rubber deterioration in my old 95 Ranger Pickup. The stuff reduces your gas mileage and I think that loss alone almost negates the stuff being in there. In many engines, it reduces efficiency more that the slightly less BTU content. I expect this is less of an issue in newer engines that are designed to deal with these issues. Growing fuel is never going to be environmentally friendly. In South American they are burning down the rain forests to grow sugar cane. After a few years of farming, the land turns into a desert. The best way to reduce CO2 levels is to reduce population but we all know that is not going to happen until food supply becomes less than demand and people starve. At some point in the next 100 yrs I expect this will happen and the population will start going down instead of up but the global environment won't be too happy. The earth will eventually recover but I am not looking forward to seeing the downfall before that happens and I am sure I will be in the ground before things get really bad. I do worry for my daughter who may have to live through the worst of this.

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Old 02-08-2014, 10:49 AM   #25
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Just bought a new outboard for my little skiff and Evinrude doesn't even want me to run E10 without using an additive and E15 voids the warranty. Right now, I can still get fuel but in 5 years?
This is a problem for more than just small engines too. There is a big debate now on auto/truck engines produced prior to 2012 (not sure of year date but recent) and their durability of the fuel system with such fuels. Another fuel issue, diesel, I learned that the bosch high pressure injection system in my 2010 TDi was designed for Diesel with higher lubricant additive than is available in the US fuels. At first I did not believe it and quoted the manual per se on the VW forum then a poster put the specs on the system online. US diesel is about 2% less than Euro specs but also outside the variance of production. So while most times you may get diesel here that is only 2% under lubricated, other times it could be a greater difference.

Thanks Wayward for the "label" clarification. I knew I was a something that cared but not radical!
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Old 02-08-2014, 11:09 AM   #26
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This is a problem for more than just small engines too.

........................

Another fuel issue, diesel, I learned that the bosch high pressure injection system in my 2010 TDi was designed for Diesel with higher lubricant additive than is available in the US fuels. At first I did not believe it and quoted the manual per se on the VW forum then a poster put the specs on the system online. US diesel is about 2% less than Euro specs but also outside the variance of production. So while most times you may get diesel here that is only 2% under lubricated, other times it could be a greater difference.

Thanks Wayward for the "label" clarification. I knew I was a something that cared but not radical!
I always add this to my 2003 Dodge Ram's diesel fuel.

Performance Formula - Stanadyne

According to others who know more than I (or at least say they do), it compensates for the lower lubrication of the newer low sulfur fuels.

Ken

P.S. Let me know when it is time to start discussing the distinctions between the various strains of conservatism (not to be confused with conservationism).
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:48 PM   #27
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Ethanol has not helped corn prices as they are at $4.31 per bu. yesterday. today at 10:25 AM corn at cargill is $4.3350 per bu.
paper merchants at commodities board control price of corn no one else. Farmers today cannot raise corn at these prices & pay exp. plus make decent earnings for hard work & investments made. E85 gas does not give as much mileage as gas. Before you jump on my back what I stated we grow corn & soy beans on my farm, ask any farmer about what I said. On the other side people complain about ethanol causing high corn prices simply not true as very small proportin goes for ethanol prod. As stated above as to corn prices being low, they were $1.00 A bu. during WW2. The most I ever saw $7.31 2 yrs. ago for2 days prices have fallen ever since... Bill
I also know farmers who did well the past few years and now the corn contracts will only allow them to "break even" for the next year.
On another note The low corn prices plus the drought in the west is why cattle prices are the highest we have ever seen. Read and article the other day that the U.S. beef herd is the smallest it has been since 1951. We were going to sell our brood cows this year and run feeder calves but the math just won't work out.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:49 PM   #28
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I also know farmers who did well the past few years and now the corn contracts will only allow them to "break even" for the next year.
On another note The low corn prices plus the drought in the west is why cattle prices are the highest we have ever seen. Read and article the other day that the U.S. beef herd is the smallest it has been since 1951. We were going to sell our brood cows this year and run feeder calves but the math just won't work out.
Here's some high cattle. Maybe this is part of the problem.



Maybe the chikins are eating all the cattle feed.

Ken
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