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Old 04-07-2006, 09:11 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck
Canoe: If I understand correctly, (and maybe I don't) 1000lbs of tongue weight isn't 1000lbs of payload, IF you're using a weight distributing hitch. With that in mind, its not hard to stay in spec.
Rich bought the Armada when they upgraded to the 30' classic. "Vintage Thunder" was towed with his Honda Pilot. They've taken the nissan/30' combination across the country and back, without issue, as far as I know. at least, none has been reported in the blog. As far as I can tell, they're very happy with it.
Chuck -- I was a little hesitant to jump right back into this thread... The conclusions I've drawn from every thread on CAT scales is that the sole function of WD gear is to take some of the disproportionate load off the back axle and then torque the TV frame so the front axle picks up some of that load. 2airishuman's thread last summer, visited the CAT scales and the numbers are in......, pretty firmly established that WD gear does not unweigh the tow vehicle at all. Therefore I would say that 1000lbs of tongue weight is 1000lbs of payload on the tow vehicle. Weigh the tongue (hitch jack actually) at home with a bathroom scale -- easy enough. Now ... other loads up to the trailers GVWR aren't easy to predict how much weight goes to the tongue or trailer axle area. That's where a CAT scale must be the final arbiter.

I'm glad you are able to clarify Rich's history. From my Titan experience I just can't recommend a new purchaser looking at an Armada for anything near a 28' or 31' newer heavier trailer (which moreso would be in the class of a 3/4-ton Suburban). The Titan/Armada engine & transmission are up to the task but it doesn't seem that the suspension is anything but in the 1/2-ton range.

I won't argue with Don in E Texas' tow arrangement ....
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Old 04-08-2006, 08:41 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canoe stream
... 2airishuman's thread last summer, visited the CAT scales and the numbers are in......, pretty firmly established that WD gear does not unweigh the tow vehicle at all.
I would only conclude that HIS wd gear does not unweigh HIS tv. other combinations will be different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canoe stream
Weigh the tongue (hitch jack actually) at home with a bathroom scale -- easy enough.
yeah, if you've got a 1000lb bathroom scale. just how fat do you think I am? yikes!

Anyway, yeah, sure, the only way to know for sure is to use the scales. But if the comination isn't exceeded, I'm betting the whole rig can be balanced. Pilots do this all the time. lots of airplanes have capacities that seem to conflict. "sure, you can put 6 people in that plane...but then you can't fill the tanks." so don't fill the tanks. If you want to fly to somewhere 6 hours away...well, you can't bring all those people. you choose.
now, with an airplane, those numbers actually mean something. with them, I can predict how far down the runway my plane will leave the ground, and how fast it will climb with amazing accuracy. what do the automobile numbers mean? who knows. they are derived from a compromise between the engineers (what it CAN do), the lawyers (how much liability do we want to accept), and the marketeers (how bad do we want to sell this rickshaw, and to whom?).
Remember "Joe Isuzu"?
'This truck will tow ONE MILLION POUNDS!!" (joe lives!!)
lawyers: " don't tell 'em THAT! we'll get sued!!!!"
engineer:" who stole my slide-rule??"

after seeing those dinky little suv's hauling around a big-old airstream in the "airstream=performance" video with such aplomb, I'm not going to loose a whole lot of sleep over someone towing with a durango, tahoe, or expedition, (which are built on full-sized truck chassis'.)
But they didn't fair quite so well with the big square sob. Thats another thing no one has mentioned in these endless discussions. A while back, our resident automotive-engineer, who was actually involved in such testing, reported that they had to stop using airstreams to do their tests, because they were skewing the test results...their towing charactaristics made the tv's appear as though they could tow more than they really could. well..more than they could if the load was shaped differently. The shape, cg, etc. of an airstream trailer made that much difference on the flats. but the only place they found that "1000lbs=1000lbs" was on the hills. in that scenario, weight is just weight.
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Old 04-08-2006, 09:43 AM   #45
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Although not directly related to the spirited discussions we're having here, I was just on the Chevy site and found this info on the '07 3/4 ton Burbs:

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ges-21945.html

Looks to me like if you want to tow the big dogs (30' or larger, newer) and were thinking, oh yea, I want a Subruban, you're gonna be looking someplace other than you new car dealer after the 2006s are gone (unless it's used)..and until a diesel gets loaded into the engine bay......
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Old 04-08-2006, 02:03 PM   #46
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hi chuck, canoe str', silvercamper and all my toe/draggin buddies....

diggin' into the details can sharpen our understanding.....right?

ok so chuck and bob......

here are some points on my cat scale weigh in...

1. i'm using 1000lb bars.....they don't exert as much force/torque, as the 1400s....right?

2. also i have a very loooooooooong trailer....

3. so no increase in the trailer axle load may be the result of lighter bars and a long frame.....

4. it is possible (but wasn't measured) that the 3 axles on my trailer experienced some shift from the most forward to the most rearward without a net change...and math suggests the 'tension' in my trailer frame would be redistributed progressively rearward as the bars are raised...

5. most folks with 34s/hensleys use the 1400lb bars....at least those posting

6. pretty sure porky pig has posted some scale numbers using the 1400s and his redistribution was slightly different than mine, with basically the same rig...still with a long trailer, not much will move reward...and actually he didn't include hookup/without bars tightened...
http://www.airforums.com/forum...ighlight=scale

7. toasty's dad has a completely different setup and also visited the scales...post 63..his results did show some reduction in total t.v. load as the bars were tightened..
http://www.airforums.com/forum...ighlight=hitch

8. i'm just guessing, but frame length/wheel base and how far back trailer axles are positioned....may effect the redistribution results for each combo of tv/bars/trailer.

9. chuck......you don't need a 1000lb bath room scale....a 300lb works fine with a long board on top running from the scale to terra firma.....position the trailer closer to the "grounded end" and multiply the the load by lever position....how to do this is posted on the web.

10. regardless of t.v. selection we all can learn from scale weights....at least once on our rigs.....i'm gonna do it 2x year and with any major equipment change...it's simple and inexpensive and oh so useful...

cheers
2air'
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Old 04-08-2006, 02:24 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
hi chuck, canoe str', silvercamper and all my toe/draggin buddies....

diggin' into the details can sharpen our understanding.....right?



10. regardless of t.v. selection we all can learn from scale weights....at least once on our rigs.....i'm gonna do it 2x year and with any major equipment change...it's simple and inexpensive and oh so useful...

cheers
2air'
Unless you travel with my bride...then it had better be after every trip

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Old 04-08-2006, 02:35 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoonc
Unless you travel with my bride...then it had better be after every trip Aaron
aaron......
please tell me your bride isn't the object of the weigh in....
and that she is using the scale visits to monitor your smuggling habit...

cheers
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Old 04-08-2006, 07:19 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
aaron......
please tell me your bride isn't the object of the weigh in....
and that she is using the scale visits to monitor your smuggling habit...

cheers
2air'
Nope BB(beautiful bride) is not the object of the weigh in...it is all the stuff SHE accumulates I sent her off on a trip one time, she left with one rolling suitcase and a tote bag, she came back with 2 rolling suitcases, a tote bag, a wheeled cart and 4 very large shopping bags...

Aaron
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