Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-01-2006, 07:53 PM   #15
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoung
In fact the 25 might be a bit longer owing to the placement of the kitchen farther back.

IMHO, the arguments in favor of the Hensley are overblown too. It's hard for me to believe that something costing 5x or 6x as much can reduce zero much below zero. Nada is still nada.
There is no wheelbase for a trailer per se, only the difference of the axle location to the hitch from what I understand, and location of the kitchen will not by weight and location make a coach longer. The 28' is slightly longer, has a heavier hitch weight, larger black tank and will be a slightly larger footprint for crosswind, that the Hensley may or may not help reduce and even if it could, it still has a 119" wheelbase to contend with. If we were talking 22', great, but we're not. Until folks have towed with a real 3/4 ton truck, they will never know the night and day difference we who have are talking about. Is the Durango unibody or body on frame (I can't find that info anywhere).

I would agree that too much is put on the Hensley to overcome TV shortcomings. Hensely though a great hitch (although expensive) should be used in conjuction with the proper vehicle, not as a hunk of metal to help offset for TV shortcomings....again, it all boils down to moving or towing. Many vehicles can move a trailer, but few can really tow the larger ones.
__________________

__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2006, 07:55 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
myoung's Avatar
 
Nipomo , California
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 627
Images: 24
So what are we to make of Rich Luhr and his family merrily driving around the country with a 30-foot Safari towed by a Nissan Armada. Maybe it is all a myth. Maybe it is unreal.

From his blog we have this quote:

"In November, I got a call from a Nissan dealer in North Carolina who said our photo from Wheeler Peak (Great Basin National Park) sold his customer on a Nissan Armada for his Airstream. For us, the Armada has proved to be a very good match to the 30-footer, using a properly adjusted Reese Strait-Line hitch and Prodigy brake control.

The truck has been reliable, with 10,700 miles logged since new at this point. Since we are towing a lot, we change oil every 3,000 miles. Be sure to follow the break-in instructions for towing very carefully regardless of which vehicle you buy. With the Nissan Armada or Titan, you need to log 500 miles not towing, then 500 miles towing below 45 MPH, before you hit the highway."
__________________

__________________
Mike Young & Rosemary Nelson

Bowlus Road Chief "Endymion" (coming soon)
BMW X3 xDrive 28D
myoung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2006, 08:01 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
myoung's Avatar
 
Nipomo , California
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 627
Images: 24
Silvertwinkie,

With all due respects, please get your facts straight. Look at the specifications that Airstream publishes. The Safari 25FB has 4 gallons more black water capacity than the 28. The other tanks are the same size. The GVWRs are identical at 7,300 pounds.
__________________
Mike Young & Rosemary Nelson

Bowlus Road Chief "Endymion" (coming soon)
BMW X3 xDrive 28D
myoung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2006, 08:04 PM   #18
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Just cause Rich does it too, make is neither right nor safe. Same thing is said by the folks that tow with Intrepids....that guy in Canada does it.....and he posts his specs too......

Though what you folks are doing does move the RV in the sense of what you all see and feel when towing, the reality is that what you are doing IS better than towing with a Dodge Intrepid (which I applaud you all for NOT doing), but that ain't sayin' much. I am happy that folks are happy with their tow decisions, but what is being done isn't safe when you put these half tons above a 22' coach. 25' IMHO is pushing it too, but beyond 25' for a newer Airstream........

At some point (and I hope it doesn't happen), you will probobly find the limitations of your rigs, I only hope it's not at a bad time. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

As far as my facts Mike, I'm not talking about a FB unit, nor did I elude that I was. It also was not asked in the original post of the thread as an option. The 28' was..... I used the base 25' as a example compared to a base 28'....and you'll also note that I'm not a fan of towing a 25' foot (any model) new Airstream with a Durango, Armada, Toyota, etc. Glad it's working for you, but as I said, we just won't agree. Folks that tow with these vehicles are very passionate about them and you can read that passion in the post. My comments are not going to change your mind, nor would I try. I do however, try to share my exp having gone down the road. I can safely say that our Suburban (130" wheelbase, upgraded trans, brakes, axles, axle hubs, etc) is not the biggest, baddest TV out there, and it doesn't have the 8.1L either, but it's light years ahead of anything else I've used (regardless of horsepower and torque) and I have been towing for over 12 years now. If you get something out of that, great, if not, and you're happy doing what you're doing, I may not agree at all, but it's all about choices. I've seen one terrible accident from a short wheelbase longer RV combo and after that I figured my life, those in my vehicle and those around me, there were better choices I could have made. Cost me a bit to do, but I bit the bullet and did it. I could have done better, I could have done worse too.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2006, 08:16 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
myoung's Avatar
 
Nipomo , California
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 627
Images: 24
Silvertwinkie,

Since I was the first person responding to the inquiry and referenced our experiences with at 2006 Safari 25FB LS, I presumed that the later references to the 25 were directed at our 25. It's hard to keep this all straight. My intention was only to offer clarification.

There are errors in all estimates, so trying to put too fine a point on the calculations and the conclusions that one might draw from them is fraught with error too. We all hope that the choices we make produce good outcomes. So far, this has been the case with us. We hope it continues. As the optimist who fell off the tall building said to people watching from each floor as he passed, "So far, so good."
__________________
Mike Young & Rosemary Nelson

Bowlus Road Chief "Endymion" (coming soon)
BMW X3 xDrive 28D
myoung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2006, 08:27 PM   #20
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoung
As the optimist who fell off the tall building said to people watching from each floor as he passed, "So far, so good."
Cute...i shot you some karma.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2006, 08:57 PM   #21
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
hi micsupply, myoung and 'twinkie.....

yea mike i crawled under the titan last year and it did look stout....assume the armada is the same stuff....they didn't have a receiver i could inspect...and my trailer was gonna be 11.5k lbs anyway...so i needed a biggggger truck....also i wanted a diesel....
i see you mountain bike....most of my riding is west of the big river....but i may make it to the carolinas this year....and i want one of your homemade forum tee shirts....xxlarge.

myoung...

we only know with what we tow....i don't doubt your positive experience with your hitch.....i'm glad it works so well for ya....

as for the hensley....once it was installed and i pulled one 5 mile section of interstate....with semis blowing by me on both sides......i forgot what it costs.....

price and "i can't believe it does much" are the 2 biggest issues.......that NON OWNERS express relative to the haha....
and considering what an airstream costs relative to sob trailers......it is hilarious to read that issue here......
and the hensley may have better resale value....by far.

i honestly haven't thought once about the cost since i started using it...i also spent a lot of time in the 'send it back' phase trying to defeat it. i also realize whenever the haha topic appears, it's best not to mention using it or how nice it is......because it 's all be said already.....

i'm not an evangelical for anything......airstream or the hitch....but until you ride or tow with the haha......your opinion, no disrespect, of the haha is worth zip.....and that applies to everyone who thinks they know but hasn't used one....it's like offering an opinion of flight, without ever leaving the ground...even if one understands lift, gravity, navigation and so on.....

and i'm sure many are happy with the equal i zer.....i'm happy for them/you.

twink.......in reference to post 14......

myoung is one of the few here who have actually benefited from discussing tv/trailer.......
http://www.airforums.com/forum...ice-18464.html

and his wise choice was to down-size the trailer......now he tells us the combo is working great........his experience should be accepted and learned from...toastie's dad also seems to have been helped.... neither of these guys tows with a 3/4 ton anything....but they are both satisfied and telling us so...

i stand by my assertion that most folks towing are all over the map with respect to combinations........"We've had polls on this very topic before and clearly, by a wide margin, most folks do not tow with these vehicles." surely you must know enough about stats to realize that no poll conducted here is reflective of anything....except maybe the poll responders.......even that's suspect...

i have yet to vote in any poll here ever.......like most of the 11,000 members. and most trailer towing is NOT airstream.....and most people towing trailers are not online here....or anywhere....

good sam or the insurance underwriters would need to report tv/trailer data for it to be useful....

the polls here are for entertainment purposes only......

if ya want a clearer picture of towing combos......go to a busy state park or low price rv park.....don't look at a poll here......gee whiz...that is just a silly way to gauge what the rv using public at large is doing.......correctly or not....

what does happen here is someone who rarely post asks honestly about a tow rig and gets dumped on by a few hole-e-are-than-thou......and often the poster just fades away.....never to ask anything again....

as for me "playing both sides of the fence"......i use a 3/4 ton diesel because a new 34 can weigh 11,500lbs......and i have lots of other cars to drive when not towing, so the truck is a single purpose vehicle....with 15,000miles of towing in just one year....

i've never hidden what i tow with or why.....

BUT, if i chose a 25 safari my options for t.v. would have been greater....and if i used the t.v. for other needs.....that issue would factor as well.

you commented about the hitch not defying physics and the t.v. being controlled by a larger heavier object........well, when my trailer is maxed out it weighs nearly 2500-3000lbs MORE than my superduty....so i guess i'm being pushed around too? the trailer in question here will only weigh a few hundred lbs more than the durango or armada.....

please lets not forget the trailers have great brakes....oh and i too have a hensley....

my point here is that offering actual user experience like myoung and micsupply have is just as important as running some numbers......or preaching "no one does that"....instead of going overboard with the finger pointing....lets help 'em work it out....better.

beside no one here has got is all down right......right?

i am reminded of the 'first aid kit' thread which could be long and useful and interesting and ongoing and helpful....

except someone claiming to be an expert said " don't carry that stuff, you'll hurt someone"......without realizing that folks DO carry that stuff, and a whole lot more. and the medical supplies/first aide gear in an rv is more like the medicine cabinet at home...... so why not let'em post about it.....seems you were one of those 'dangerous' folks.... that was scolded?

cheers
2air'
__________________
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2006, 09:05 PM   #22
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
air, some of your posts are brilliant, but there are times like this when you remind me of a country school teacher when asked if the world is flat or round....her reply was, it doesn't matter, I can teach it either way.

You are however incorrect that the folks that responded to the poll are questionable. What would their motivation be? I took the poll as useful, as I do most of our polls and understand that they are by no means scientific. Those polls clearly indicated from the sample taken that more folks use other tow vehicles. BTW, when I'm at a campground as you suggest I see a lot more 3/4 tons and diesels then I do Armadas, Titans, Toyotas, etc. That's not scientific either. That is not to say there aren't interesting combos out there, but fewer folks towing with Durangos, Titans, Armadas, etc than the traditional 3/4 tons as you and I have. BTW, if you actually read the post, I never said no one does it. Sticking to the spirit of the thread, I am talking about what was asked, a 28' and I used the base 25' as a comparison.

As for the Hensley, I thought I added wheelbase (infer from proper tow vehicle) to the equation. The Hensley, though good, still isn't gonna make up for a short wheelbase and the weight problem. In your case you have the proper TV for your Airstream and the Hensley compliments that, it is not acting as a crutch.

No idea what you're talking about in terms of scolded, a first aid thread where I had the ability to censor opinons, etc, but then again, the world is round air.....

Folks are always welcome to post what they find works for them, it doesn't mean we can't have an adult conversation about it or that we have to agree in a round world....we just need to read what folks post and not misquote them to prove our own points.....
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2006, 09:27 PM   #23
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
right here twink....i didn't write you censored people....you are editing your posts......after i read them....

http://www.airforums.com/forum...?highlight=aid

the issue is in reality.......the gear folks carry for first aid/emergency use is much greater than kimili realizes and his/her saying "don't do it"....doesn't help much, keeps folks from discussing it completely here and learning.

all polls have bias......every single one.......

ever experiment or research data set has bias.....every single one......

there are no pure science methods......because even methods have bias....every single method...

the polls here are very bias.....
-how are choices listed/worded
-who can vote
-who did vote
-what are the options (the t.v. poll is VERY LIMITED in choices)
-how are the results shared; does this effect further voting

also being on an airstream site.....is a fundimental bias.......as is the age range for forum use and computer use....

there are also limitations IN the poll and how the results can be interpreted or generalized to the towing public....

again the polls here are for entertainment purposes only.....

anyone drawing conclusions from these polls is clueless regarding research, methods or interpretation....

honestly....you aren't relying on polls here for info are ya?

twink.......ya keep editing your post......removed word bias.....insert word questionable? i can't reply if ya keep changing things.......but then again that's not new is it?

cheers
2air'
__________________
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2006, 09:34 PM   #24
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Not sure what you're real motivation is, but the fact is that I too stand by my thoughts on this subject.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2006, 11:39 PM   #25
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
tow vehicle polls......

here are a few......
only a few hundred votes each....and some of the polls start in 2003...what if ya changed t.v. in the last year...can you vote again?

http://www.airforums.com/forum...?highlight=tow

i'm not sure how folks use the rating poll if not a dodge/ge'em/ford truck...

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ht=tow+vehicle
these labels really don't apply to suvs or many other t.v. choices....

for the brands polls....wording is again an issue......


http://www.airforums.com/forum...ht=tow+vehicle
i'm not sure the reg/med/big suv helps much either...what about little ones...

no place to vote for 'less than 1/2 ton' but it looks like

nearly 1/2 tow with 1/2 ton....
16-18 % imports....
and about 1/2 trucks....
and 10% is non traditional things...sedans, wagons, minivans...and so on...
interesting

but the polls are entertaining....sort of...
and i'm not degrading the polls nothings perfect....

cheers
2air'
__________________
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 07:16 AM   #26
Moderator Emeritus
 
Pick's Avatar
 
1972 31' Sovereign
High Springs , Florida
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,310
Images: 36
Send a message via AIM to Pick
Living close to and driving a lot on, I75 here in Florida, I see a lot of RV traffic. Most noticable are the BIG class A diesel motorhomes, most with toads in tow or a "toy" trailer. I am starting to see more and more of the big diesel "Class B" type motorhomes. These are used by special event type folk, such as automobile racers and folks that show horses. Most are towing some kind of large trailer, usually gooseneck types.

Next in line are the fifth wheel trailer type campers. Nearly 100% of those are pulled by diesel pickups. Every once in a while you will see a small 5th wheel being pulled by a 1/2 ton. VERY rarely.

Next the lowly travel trailer. What we have here. Lot's of SMALL S.O.B's being pulled by 1/2 ton pickups. Larger S.O.B's (Toy Haulers) being pulled by 3/4 and 1 ton diesel pickups.

Now to the Airstreams. First of all, let me state that most I see are in the 28' and larger size catagory. Most 30' and above. Very rare to see a Bambi or similar size A/S down here. Most common tow vehicle I see for a 30' Airstream? I'll say its "even steven" between Ford Excursion and GM Suburban, followed by 3/4 ton (pick your brand) diesel pickup.

Yesterday we drove 100+ miles on I75, back and forth to Ocala. Didn't see one Airstream. To many Class A's to count!
__________________
ARS WA8ZYT
2003 GMC 2500HD 4X4 D/A Ext. Cab
Propane Powered Honda EU2000i
Lots of Hot Sauce!
Air # 283
WBCCI 1350
Pick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 09:38 AM   #27
Patriotic
 
Chuck's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,533
Images: 260
fwiw, I got those durango numbers off of dodge's website just the other day. 5.7 hemi/3:92 rear end. Most tow ratings include an allowance for a 150lb driver and a tank of gas. And while you "could" overload such a combination...you could overload any combination by filling it with anvils. so don't do that. A typical family could easily pack all their stuff into this combination without overloading anything. if you have a smaller trailer, more goes in the truck. that "could" be a problem. with a bigger trailer, less needs to go in the truck. Just be mindfull.

If you feel comfortable having capacity far in excess of your needs, well golly, "god bless america"; its a free country. but saying that it is required in order to be "safe" is just not so. With an added arbitrary 20% safety factor, nobody can tow anything heavier than a lightly laden blue-boy. This is not what "most people" do; some do, some don't...but towing "happens" constantly with all kinds of combinations that don't meet these ultra-conservative requirements. There would be no such thing as a tractor-trailer, if these personal requirements were to become "legal" requirements, regarding wheel-base, horsepower, ratio of towed weight to tow vehicle weight, etch.

If I was one of those "airstream millionaires" that you read about, sure, I'd go out and get me a vehicle that is perfectly suited for each motor vehicular task. a super-stretched uber deisel for towing my heavy trailer...(a smaller suv for my "vintage" trailer, cuz', you know...3/4 ton's are too "stiff" for that), a Prius for my 35 mile commute to work (Ha! work? who am I kidding?), a mini-van for the misses' soccer-mom requirements...a Jeep for plowing my driveway, (lots of torque, 4x4, and highly maneuverable in the tight spaces I have to plow)...oh, and some little 2-seater convertible, just for fun.

But this is not my reality. and if I should be so bold, I'd say it isn't for "most people". I have to do all those things I listed. I can't afford the "ultimate" vehicle for each of those tasks, so, like most people, I have to "make do" with what I have. I have to settle for the best combination of abilities I can find, and considering that trailering is only a "sometime" thing, its requirements are going to take a back seat to other needs.

horsepower rules. I have the same rear end as myoung, and a lighter trailer...I think the combo is lethargic. the 2 reasons: personal opinion, and horsepower...the difference between a 240hp 318, and a 350hp "hemi". Having to slow down on steep hills bothers some; not others. If you feel that your towing experience must be one where you do not notice the attached load without looking in the rear-view mirror....again, its a free country, and you can achieve that. but it doesn't make you or your rig any "safer". just more suited to your taste. An appropriate hitch and a good sway control will pretty much eliminate any shortcomings in the wheelbase department. As big a factor, and almost never discussed, is the rear overhang of the vehicle in question, which creates the leverage that the towed load has on the tow vehicle. this tends to be shorter on smaller suv's (which ain't exaclty "small", as they're built on pickup chassis, fer goodness sakes). What you gain in wheelbase is often lost here. But can be eliminated by a hensley.

(oh, and a durango is not uni-body. Its a conventional "chassis-on-frame" construction).

Why you "neeeeeed" 3/4-ton spec on all the other stuff is totally beyond me. if you're within spec, you're within spec. if you're not, you're not. Combinations proposed in the origingal post are within spec.
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2006, 04:17 PM   #28
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
well said chuck......

pick you have better explained my observation of towing combos....

yes the 3/4 and 1 tons dominate the 5th wheel needs...

but once we get to the lowly travel trailer with a ball mount....there are lots of suvs, 1/2 tons, and much older trucks with much lower ratings and equipment....really all over the map on wheel base, power and so on...

the combos amaze me some times....part of the fun of camping...

cheers
2air'
__________________

__________________
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.