Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-13-2011, 08:43 AM   #15
Rivet Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 811
Quote:
Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
The OPs write-up has one very telling point. "and the best guess he could make is that the injectors and injector pump had simply failed (obvious rust residue)".

No diesel will tolerate water or foreign material very well. The tolerances and polished interfaces of the injection system are so very tight and precise in order to accomplish in excess of 30,000 psi, that any deformation of these surfaces will cause issues in short order.

Whether this issues was strictly a storage and condensation issue or not (I kinda doubt it) water was introduced to the system somewhere, sometime.
That is true. Water and contaminants will kill any diesel. I have three filters on my boat and also use a biocide every fillup. Fuel fouling is more likely in a marine environment.
I am thinking of installing a Racor filter, water seperator on my 2000 Excursion now that it does not as get much use as in the past.
I change the stock filter every other oil change rather than every 1500 miles as the factory recommends and am now using Stanadyne.
__________________

__________________
handn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 09:46 AM   #16
Rivet Master
 
Bambi_Bandit's Avatar

 
2008 27' International FB
1964 19' Globetrotter
1955 26' Cruiser Overlander
Austin , Texas
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 604
Images: 12
I wouldn't say it's bad luck. Today's diesels (post 2008) are a way different animal than anything prior to that. Diesel piezo injectors are way more sensitive to water or other conaminants. Take that fact combigned with the ULS fuel removing lubricity, add in the fact that there is not standard for fuel cleanliness, and add some bad habits (i.e. idling / wet stacking / short drives / partial regen) and then you get problems.

You could idle a ford 7.3 or a cummins 5.9 all day. Today if you do that with a post 2008 truck you will get wet stacking and kill your motor. the dealers will check the engine's idle meter to see how much idle you have. That's why idle is not good unless you have increased the RPMs using electronic or mechanical controls. (plus it's bad for the enviroment)

European diesel designs were way ahead of the game. It's the US federal "add ons" that really screwed up the diesels here today.
__________________

__________________
Kevin & Prim Li
Bandit the Siberian Husky (RIP) & "G" the Min-Pin (RIP)
Cosmo the Custom 2008 27FB Intl CCD
Maxwell the 1964 Globe Trotter
Name TBD the 1955 Overlander
WBCCI # 6155
AIR # 6155

2nd love - 2006 28' Safari LS
1st love - 2004 19' CCD Bambi
Bambi_Bandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 10:13 AM   #17
Rivet Master
 
Soyboy's Avatar

 
1999 28' Excella
Frederick , Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 661
Images: 41
Cracker that's a bummer, especially all at one time. I always tell folks that are thinking about owning a diesel truck to expect BMW/Audi/Volvo parts and repair costs (having owned a diesel truck and a number of european cars myself). I look at my Dmax which as been pretty good so far (I think the shamefully cheap interior and trim will fall apart before the drivetrain!) and wonder when the injectors will go. Maybe I will be one of the lucky ones and it will wait a few more years until after I trade it on a newer truck. Who knows. I to try to purchase my fuel from high volume stations that are newer or that I know have newer tanks (hopefully less likely to contain water). Plus the truck is generally driven every day. I also give it some hard runs on the weekends when I drive it (it is lots of fun to blow out an entrance ramp on to the highway in 3/4 ton diesel truck).

That said, the repair cost time bomb makes me think about purchasing a gasser next go round, but......I love towing with my diesel and I like the Allison transmission too (another expensive to repair item). I just wonder, with the newer tech gas engines coming out with higher torque in particular, if gassers might be a good alternative as time goes on. Of course many of the newer gassers will have turbos (Ford's Ecotech for example), but having owned a couple of turbo cars, they seem to be rather reliable these days. I think common rail, high pressure injection is becoming more common on gassers, so they may suffer some of the same problems/expenses as the diesels. Who knows? Gassers are not generally built to the commercial use/overkill extent that diesel trucks are, so that would likely keep some of the parts costs down, at least in the earlier years. Perhaps water won't be as big of an issue as it seems to be with diesels. Isn't it easier to move it through the system than with a diesel? Of course the emissions systems on the newer diesels seem like they may be an achilles heal, at least for now as they are fairly new tech. Anyway, time will tell as to how these new gassers work out.
__________________
1999 28' Safari
2012 F150 Platinum Max Tow 7650 GVWR 3.73 Elec. Locking Diff.(Prev 2003 Dmax).
Honda EU2000i, Equalizer Hitch
AM Solar Panels 150W - 2 Trojan T 105 6V Batteries
TAC MD-6
AIR 4534

On internet forums, please research and separate the wheat from the chaff (including mine!)
Soyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 11:09 AM   #18
Wise Elder
 
Jammer's Avatar
 
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river , Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,119
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDavis View Post
I can't help but wonder if the problems mentioned on this thread aren't just some of the bad luck that can hit any vehicle regardless of brand.
The real reason I ended up getting a big-block gasser is that this sort of "bad luck" is much more of a problem with diesels. The stakes are higher. With a gasser if you get a load of really bad fuel (which is rarer than with diesel, even in remote areas service stations turn over their tanks every week or two), at worst you have to drop the fuel tank and replace the pump and filter assembly, a $600 repair. Nothing to sneeze at but cheap compared to the injection system problems that can occur with diesels.

And there's no turbo or intercooler, and any engine failures that do occur can be handled easily by independent garages.

I don't doubt that the vast majority of people with diesels run them without problems, but the specter of an unexpected $5,000+ repair -- possibly while on the road, away from home -- is enough to keep me away.
__________________
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 11:31 AM   #19
Rivet Master
 
Silverfoxrae's Avatar
 
1957 26' Overlander
Currently Looking...
Saint Augustine , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 703
Images: 45
Blog Entries: 3
I have spent a good pile of money for things with my diesel, but in comparison to buying a new one or even some of the repairs on gas vehicles I've had in the past, it's just part of the territory. Like my own health, I do the best I can within reason, and hope for the best. Yes it's hard when it hits you at once, but it's still cheaper than car payments. I love my vehicle and actually get a lot of compliments from the guys in the shop when they get to work on it- usually just an oil/filter change and tire rotation/pressure check. But it's clean and consistently inspected and although I've had a few expensive problems, it's been an incredible performance vehicle for me.
Rae

2004 6.0 Excursion
__________________
Metallicised.

AIR # 42703
TCT Member
TAC # FL~6
WBCCI # 1464

'57 Overlander thread:"the end of the rainbow is silver"
Silverfoxrae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 12:11 PM   #20
tpi
Rivet Master
 
2005 25' Safari
Trabuco Canyon , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 866
Images: 2
My '99 7.3 has been real good. No repair to the engine at all, just routine maintenance.

Its past what I would normally consider a replacement cycle. Just because its been so reliable.
__________________
tpi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 12:26 PM   #21
Rivet Master
 
Cracker's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Pittsfield , Maine
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,099
I'm certainly no stranger to each of the preceding comments. I've actively pursued each of the threads on the Diesel Forum ever since I bought the truck new. There just does not seem to be any real concensus of opinion about what causes injector failure, other than post-failure investigation - i.e. - the rust that was found in my case. Trucks with sophisticated fuel filtration systems and those who have faithfully used fuel additives (---although valuable for other reasons,) have still experienced problems, and other expensive "solutions" have failed to achieve quantifiable results. From my vantage point, the one thing that seems to have come out of a lot of discussions, since the advent of the Duramax (---and others,) is that the trucks that were worked the hardest, and used to abandon, seemed to have the fewest problems??? Often they fueled from farm tanks, construction site tanks, and far-flung Ma and Pa service stations across the country. This has been my observation based on the number of Owners who have happily, and often with fingers crossed, reported how they have driven well over a hundred-thousand miles without injector problems. I do plan to use a lubricity/cetane-boosting fuel additive, however I'm holding to the theory that driving the truck on a more regular basis - and not "babying" it - will offer the most positive results. Only time will tell.
__________________
Cracker

2003 GMC 3500 D/A, CC, LB, 4x4 and 2000 Airstream Excella 30. WBCCI 7074
Cracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 12:34 PM   #22
tpi
Rivet Master
 
2005 25' Safari
Trabuco Canyon , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 866
Images: 2
I don't think its because they're driven hard.

But I think any vehicle will give fewer problems per mile if they're driven more. Probably one aspect of high mileage commercial use involves fresh fuel from high volume stations. Any marginal fuel would pass through the system quickly and be replaced quickly.

Also with rapid mileage accumulation, rubber parts and electrical parts are relatively new and supple. Fewer cold start cycles. Fewer thermal cycles.

My 99, a garage queen, will never accumulate the miles or low cost per mile as would a 99 put into commercial service on day one and run 75K miles per year.
__________________
tpi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 01:47 PM   #23
Rivet Master
 
Cracker's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Pittsfield , Maine
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,099
One thing I will definitely concede is that the water (---and rust) in the fuel system - that caused my initial warranty replacement of the injectors (+/- 52,000 miles) - may have never been fully cleared out - and I almost know with certainty when I got the bad fuel! I seriously doubt that GM would have sprung for replacement of the injector lines and injector pump - even though they might have suspected residual water and rust. I'm not even certain that the fuel tank was checked for contamination. The mechanic from Springfield GMC went through the system with a fine-tooth comb (86,000 miles), thoroughly checked the fuel in the tank (---clean,) showed me the old injectors and lines, and when he finished work the engine and engine compartment looked better than when the truck was new! He was not overly enthusiastic about additional filtration or additives and he tended to reinforce my opinion with respect to my past driving habits being problematic. For the record, I've always tried to use high-volume stations but, when you travel like many of us do with our Airstreams, you can't always be "choosey. I've damn near run out of diesel on more than one occasion because I didn't like the looks of the first diesel station I came to.
__________________
Cracker

2003 GMC 3500 D/A, CC, LB, 4x4 and 2000 Airstream Excella 30. WBCCI 7074
Cracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 03:57 PM   #24
Rivet Master
 
1994 30' Excella
Mississauga , Ontario
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 939
I haven't read through this whole thread so I apologize if I repeat anything. My father put Rakor(spelling?) filters on a diesel powered boat years ago. Those filters stop all dirt and water from getting to the injectors. The only problem I can remember is that if the filter plugs your engine stops.
Seems something like this would save your injectors.
I have no personal diesel experience.
Al
__________________
Al and Jean

TAC ON-3
BigAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 04:04 PM   #25
Rivet Master
 
Silverfoxrae's Avatar
 
1957 26' Overlander
Currently Looking...
Saint Augustine , Florida
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 703
Images: 45
Blog Entries: 3
I had a disgruntled (went crazy) former associate of my husbands (couldn't prove it but everything points to the likelihood) that put sand in my tank. The fuel tank got dropped and flushed out, all lines and filters replaced, new fuel pump, etc. etc. Luckily everything seems to be fine. It's been a year and she's running nice.
I do notice however some rust residue on the inside of the fill pipe- I always wipe up around everything... And I'm thinking I should be using something to absorb condensation?
__________________
Metallicised.

AIR # 42703
TCT Member
TAC # FL~6
WBCCI # 1464

'57 Overlander thread:"the end of the rainbow is silver"
Silverfoxrae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 11:34 PM   #26
Rivet Master
 
silverback's Avatar
 
2006 28' Safari SE
Currently Looking...
Sierra Vista , United States
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 702
Question What about the Duramax Injector recall?

Cracker,
There have been known issues with early Duramax injectors since 2002. I have an early 04 (LB7) and have a letter from GM extending my injector warranty out to 200K miles. I realize your trucks condition may have bypassed these warranty conditions but I'm surprised your mechanic didn't try and pursue it anyways. That is a chunk of change. White smoke at idle is an early warning indicator of the problem. Mine has done this for a while (with no loss of power or fuel mileage) but it doesn't fail enough for replacement. Yet. I hope yours is like new again.
-Ken
__________________
4CU Charter Member
silverback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 06:18 AM   #27
Rivet Master
 
r carl's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Lin , Ne
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,056
What about going this route?
Lifetime Warranty on Rebuilt Fuel Injectors
__________________
r carl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 09:11 AM   #28
Rivet Master
 
Soyboy's Avatar

 
1999 28' Excella
Frederick , Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 661
Images: 41
R Carl, the problem with that and so many other warranties is that they have so many "outs". I can see them always coming up with some excuse not to pay.

From reading posts on the Diesel Place forum (a mostly Duramax Forum) the general consensus seems to be that unless you are racing / pulling the truck, you are best to replace bad injectors with stock, Bosch OEM injectors (new or remanufactured by Bosch, not another vendor) with the upgraded parts that help to resist corrosion and cracking. Merchant Automotive is a well respected vendor of Duramax parts etc. Of course there are others too.

I would also make sure I was running the latest Racor / AC Delco Coalescer Fuel Filters (as I understand it Racor makes the filters for ACDelco). They are supposed to have better water seperation, filtration and a longer service life (they say 200%).

A number of folks say to be careful when getting your injectors changed. You might want to ask to see the old ones as some shops will change out the bad ones, leave the good ones, but bill you for all eight. It's an expensive job that you should give to someone you trust.
__________________

__________________
1999 28' Safari
2012 F150 Platinum Max Tow 7650 GVWR 3.73 Elec. Locking Diff.(Prev 2003 Dmax).
Honda EU2000i, Equalizer Hitch
AM Solar Panels 150W - 2 Trojan T 105 6V Batteries
TAC MD-6
AIR 4534

On internet forums, please research and separate the wheat from the chaff (including mine!)
Soyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diesel failure


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.