Diesel Truck Emissions Scandal

[Adventure.AS]

"The Environmental Protection Agency has just notified Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) that the carmaker has violated the Clean Air Act, alleging that it installed software in some of its diesel vehicles that increased emissions beyond what the company claimed. Specifically, the EPA says that "light-duty model year 2014, 2015 and 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokees and Dodge Ram 1500 trucks with 3.0 liter diesel engines sold in the United States" are releasing excess nitrogen oxide emissions."

https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/12/...issions-tests/

I'm glad I don't have one of these diesels for a tow vehicle. I'm sure the bottom will go out of the value of these trucks on the used market.

If you can't trust automotive engineers then who can you trust?

[overlander63]

That's two diesel emmisions scandals in the last year. I'm starting to wonder if we are almost at the limit as far as emmisions reductions for diesel vehicles.

[Bobpuvel]

Car makers are definitely getting crafty when trying to meet the consumers demand AND ALSO meeting crazy regulatory standards. I recall Volkswagen having some special system that changed the emissions only when the car is being envisions tested, then once it is not being monitored, it went back to its usual diesel powerhouse self. I give them all the credit in the wold, except I will never drive a Fiat or Chrysler.... but that's for different reasons.

[BentMetal]

I own one of these trucks, and I love it. I'm seriously bummed about this. It is a lot of money for something that was misrepresented to the consumer. I guess I'll keep following the story to see what the hell I'm supposed to do. Thanks for the links. Didn't know about this until I saw it here on the forum.

[motthediesel]

This is a shame, and I'm sorry for the owners that will be effected by this news.

I feel your pain, as we just turned in our 2012 Jetta TDI this week. I've been a VW guy my whole life, and I loved that car, but there is no excuse for companies trying to circumvent the law, it's just not right.

Having said that, the point raised above is a good one -- how is it our Jetta will probably wind up being crushed, when all those "coal-rolling yahoos" happily motor on, producing god-knows how much more damaging emissions with their modified full size diesel trucks. Don't get me wrong -- I own and drive a Dodge-Cummins 3500 DRW truck. I like it for all the usual reasons -- but I would not knowingly modify it in a way that would effect it's emissions.

If it is the manufacturers duty to follow the law for the good of all the public's health, the same should surely apply to owners. And if those owners can't be relied on in that regard, perhaps we need to think more seriously about enforcement there too.

Tom

[Tater]

I'm good with cleaning up diesel emissions. What I'm not OK with is requiring a diesel to go into limp mode when an emissions issue comes up. Last summer in Ohio, my 2015 Duramax gave me a warning on start up due to HEATER in DEF tank not working. Had to go to dealer who had to order the part which necessitated an all night drive to get home. If we had been on I-10 on West Texas, we couldn't have gotten to a dealer before limp mode. EPA requires this and I believe it is very dangerous to put a truck with trailer in limp mode. The DEF requirement is fine but limp mode is not.

[LesMesa]

The optimistic view is that the allegations are just that. FCA has issued a denial.

[jimfa440]

Originally Posted by Adventure.AS

"The Environmental Protection Agency has just notified Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) that the carmaker has violated the Clean Air Act, alleging that it installed software in some of its diesel vehicles that increased emissions beyond what the company claimed. Specifically, the EPA says that "light-duty model year 2014, 2015 and 2016 Jeep Grand Cherokees and Dodge Ram 1500 trucks with 3.0 liter diesel engines sold in the United States" are releasing excess nitrogen oxide emissions."

https://www.engadget.com/2017/01/12/...issions-tests/

I'm glad I don't have one of these diesels for a tow vehicle. I'm sure the bottom will go out of the value of these trucks on the used market.

If you can't trust automotive engineers then who can you trust?

I would tend to think the value of these trucks would greatly be increased given that the fuel mileage is off the charts and you can't get another one. The US government is refusing to approve 2017 models for sale in the US.

[guskmg]

"Limp Home Mode" is dangerous. I have had it three times since new on my '07. Always, I was pulling my trailer. If it is protecting the engine that is one thing, but usually it is not that important so as to jeopardize safety on the Interstate. I now carry an OBDII code reader so I can check the cause and make that determination. On emissions, I had a '03 Jetta stick shift that I commuted 45 miles each way with no other driving. It consistently, it got 54 miles per gallon. There was never any visible exhaust. Not only is that economical, but spreading that little bit of dirty exhaust over that distance is less than negligible pollution. We need to apply real world cost/benefit analyses to EPA dictates. I'm for clean air, but not clean pocket books.
guskmg

[lovetokite]

Originally Posted by jimfa440

I would tend to think the value of these trucks would greatly be increased given that the fuel mileage is off the charts and you can't get another one. The US government is refusing to approve 2017 models for sale in the US.

that would be my take as well...

[Louie Dee]

Hi Tater,
I too have a 2015 3/4 T Duramax. Can you tell me more about the DEF warning light. At what mileage, where you low on DEF, was DEF a non GM product, etc?
Thanks, I would like to be on top of a similar incident while RVing out west.

Thanks, LouDee

[Adventure.AS]

Originally Posted by jimfa440

I would tend to think the value of these trucks would greatly be increased given that the fuel mileage is off the charts and you can't get another one. The US government is refusing to approve 2017 models for sale in the US.

I think they will be hard to sell because they won't pass emissions testing after the fraudulent software has been removed and then they won't be able to be licensed (at least in Ontario.)

[fireball]

I also love my Ram Eco-Diesel. I bought it mainly for the fuel mileage, and haven't been disappointed. Does a lot better job pulling my 19ft. than the Tundra I had previously. I guess I'll wait and see what happens with the scandal and keep enjoying it in the meantime.

[dkottum]

We love everything about our EcoDiesel as well, and are very happy to have it. A terrific vehicle in every way, we have no plans to let it go. Same with our VW TDI.

This is nothing new, been going on for months. Our dealership has been unsuccessfully trying to get new 2016 or used EcoDiesels because of the high demand up through this morning when we were there.

[Tater]

Originally Posted by Louie De

Hi Tater,
I too have a 2015 3/4 T Duramax. Can you tell me more about the DEF warning light. At what mileage, where you low on DEF, was DEF a non GM product, etc?
Thanks, I would like to be on top of a similar incident while RVing out west.

Thanks, LouDee

It had 57k miles when it happened. My immediate reaction was low DEF so I went to Walmart and started to add and it took about a gallon and overflowed. Contacted OnStar and they told me it had to go to a dealer for service. The morning it happened in September we were in Ohio and it was cool morning and apparently called for DEF tank heater which failed. Have had it in freezing cold before with no issues at all. I use Walmart brand DEF. Sometimes Blue DEF. It was "one of those things ". I love the truck just don't like the potential of being stuck in limp mode and no dealer for miles.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Bobpuvel

Car makers are definitely getting crafty when trying to meet the consumers demand AND ALSO meeting crazy regulatory standards. I recall Volkswagen having some special system that changed the emissions only when the car is being envisions tested, then once it is not being monitored, it went back to its usual diesel powerhouse self. I give them all the credit in the wold, except I will never drive a Fiat or Chrysler.... but that's for different reasons.

I think there is a big difference between crafty, and blatant fraud, as VW acted. That was criminal.

We don't know what the routines the EPA found in the FCA software do. They may impact hp, or drivability, or fuel economy, or durability. What we do know is that they were found because the vehicles didn't perform as well on emissions tests in the real world as they did on the EPA test cycle. Something isn't right.

[Ray Eklund]

The State of Wyoming, among many Oil Producing States, has been spewing 'poisonous gasses' for hundreds of years. Maybe thousands... and not one EPA fund or fix to the problem.

Coal Seam fires are common and burn underground. Not even man made so who or what to blame or to financially punish?

Oil seeps oozing out petroleum at the surface... no one in sight.

Methane bubbles from beneath ponds and lakes, go untreated...

We called them, the underground coal fires, 'smokers', when driving to Gillette, Wyoming in the Winter months. Maybe caused by a lightning strike, spontaneous combustion... maybe an alien space craft crash?

Since there is no one to pay fines or be punished... these 'smokers' continue. Known to many but ignored by those who are concerned about air quality.

Standards are arbitrary. Working for OSHA and inspecting the 'Oil Patch', when time permitted, paid no attention to the methane burn off or sulfur emissions. We were concerned with the human safety aspects and environment. No EPA air sampler braving the wind, cold, rain or heat to squeeze a few bucks out of a drilling company in sight.

An idling VW or Dodge Diesel... get out your gas masks.

The emissions rules at a drilling site are not the same as your vehicle's exhaust pipe. Arbitrary rules and regulations. Of course, this was my early 1970's observatiions.

So coal smokers and oil field's flaring light CH4+ gases, go 24 hours a day, yet the deep pockets are found to be among vehicle emissions that are nothing in comparison. Stomp out those campfires... you may be next.

(This is a 'pile' of sarcasm here, but 'Follow the Money' and all will be solved.)

[crispyboy]

This is not yet a scandal but merely an investigation. The smell of money for the EPA is in the air, the sharks are circling.
I actually enjoy my stink free diesel truck but the EPA has bypassed common sense to a point that newer vehicles are becoming too expensive and complex for the common folk. The same with my home electricity bill, it has increased almost two fold since 2008.

[K1VHR]

Just for information, the 3 liter diesel came from Italy and has its heritage as small marine diesel. FIAT thought it would be nice to have it as RAM diesel to compete against FORD ECO. They should have kept it in Italy and requested Cummins to make a small diesel of American Capability with no cheating.
AND I am a Ram fan..

[jcl]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

This is not yet a scandal but merely an investigation.

More than one investigation, as it turns out. I think it is three now, with the sales practices investigation and the DOJ investigation.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-investigation