Diesel may not be dead after all

[mousehunter]

Hard to discuss diesel without getting into politics and religion.

Diesel cars got off to a bad start in the US. 2 separate groups of lobbiest (environmental-who want to limit all driving, and automotive-who want to benefit their companies) attacked small Diesel. No use into the religious discussion of weather or not the environmental laws or just, or the political discussion weather or not they are fair.

Pretty sure, if you look at total emitions, my TDI is the cleanest vehicle per mile that I have ever owned. But it is illegal now. Researching new diesel tow vehicles now. My family has always managed with 1/2 ton gas vehicles. The nes today are more powerful than ever. know they can get me from point a to b. Doing it while towing 12k lbs at 80mph on the interstate stresses me probably more than the truck.

I live rural. I am arround diesel trucks constantly. Other than being super sized, they simply don't bother me. Funny thing, new ones make my older F150 4x4 supercrew seem small

[wbrisett]

Originally Posted by mousehunter

Funny thing, new ones make my older F150 4x4 supercrew seem small

Even the new ¾ ton 4x4s make new ½ ton 4x4s look small. I should have taken a photo. I had my 2016 ¾ ton parked in between two new ½ tons. After a while, you don't realize just how big the ¾ tons are until sandwiched between ½ tons.

I do agree to some extent that politics have to come up when discussing any sort of engine because regulations are passed onto consumers from those who run various agencies and government officials. All that said, I think the idea here is that we don't turn this into a heated political debate where we demonize the view we don't hold (which unfortunately seems to be the norm these days).

[TRIPPPIN]

The U.S. Justice Department is preparing to sue Fiat Chrysler Automobiles over Diesel emissions is reported in the Detroit news today. The EPA alleged in January that the automaker sold 104,000 Jeep Grand Cherokee SUVs and Ram 1500 pickups with diesel engines containing “auxiliary emissions control devices” that the company failed to disclose to the agency. The alleged violations carried potential penalties of up to $44,539 per vehicle, then-EPA enforcement chief Cynthia Giles said at the time. That translated to a penalty of up to $4.6 billion based on the number of vehicles involved. Looks like this could impact vehicles back to 2014.

[PharmGeek]

Originally Posted by TRIPPPIN

The U.S. Justice Department is preparing to sue Fiat Chrysler Automobiles over Diesel emissions is reported in the Detroit news today. The EPA alleged in January that the automaker sold 104,000 Jeep Grand Cherokee SUVs and Ram 1500 pickups with diesel engines containing “auxiliary emissions control devices” that the company failed to disclose to the agency. The alleged violations carried potential penalties of up to $44,539 per vehicle, then-EPA enforcement chief Cynthia Giles said at the time. That translated to a penalty of up to $4.6 billion based on the number of vehicles involved. Looks like this could impact vehicles back to 2014.

Whoa!!!!!!!

[Martee]

Originally Posted by TRIPPPIN

The U.S. Justice Department is preparing to sue Fiat Chrysler Automobiles over Diesel emissions is reported in the Detroit news today. The EPA alleged in January that the automaker sold 104,000 Jeep Grand Cherokee SUVs and Ram 1500 pickups with diesel engines containing “auxiliary emissions control devices” that the company failed to disclose to the agency. The alleged violations carried potential penalties of up to $44,539 per vehicle, then-EPA enforcement chief Cynthia Giles said at the time. That translated to a penalty of up to $4.6 billion based on the number of vehicles involved. Looks like this could impact vehicles back to 2014.

Diesel based vehicles are found all over the world and especially in Europe; where a whopping 53% of family vehicles are high performance Diesels, running with Euro4 emissions requirements. Compared to Europe, the EPA emmisons requirements are quite extravagant and completely unnecessary.

I do believe automotive research groups will have a breakthrough in the near future on Diesel technology. Reports coming out indicate existing prototypes for Bi-Turbo 1.8 Liter Diesels showing 380 HP and 490 Torque and with 48 MPG. Putting such an engine in a Tow Vehicle would be extremely practical and safe for both family and the environment.

[tjdonahoe]

My 2017 2500 Ram , 6.7 clean burning cumalong ,4/4 gets 14 mpg loaded and 20 empty with 370 hp and 800 ft lbs torque....3.42 gears 1300 rpm and 63-64 mph does it easy....

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by jcl

Power is measured in hp or kw, not mpg, mph, rpm, miles, or gallon.

The RAM 6.7 produces 350 - 385 hp, depending on configuration and transmission. It is listed as weighing 1050 to 1150 lbs, dry.

The Ecoboost 3.5 produces 365 to 380 hp, depending on configuration. It is about to be released at 450 hp. It is listed as weighing 449 lbs dry.

So yes, diesels of the same (or less) power appear to be heavier.

There is a reason you don't see gas engines in big trucks, you have to run your ecobooster 4000 rpm to get any power, after 75,000 miles it is wore out. I like low end torque....

[jcl]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

There is a reason you don't see gas engines in big trucks, you have to run your ecobooster 4000 rpm to get any power, after 75,000 miles it is wore out. I like low end torque....

Isn't the conversation about pickups, not Class 8 trucks?

I haven't seen Ecoboost engines worn out after 75000 miles. Have you?

If you like low end torque, you are really going to like the electric vehicles that will largely replace what is out there now.

[dznf0g]

Not dead. Expanding. Can't talk about it, but will become apparent in next 12 months or so.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by jcl

Isn't the conversation about pickups, not Class 8 trucks?

I haven't seen Ecoboost engines worn out after 75000 miles. Have you?

If you like low end torque, you are really going to like the electric vehicles that will largely replace what is out there now.

Run the little liter engine at load , see how long it lasts, electric, yes seen a Tesla car do the 1/4 mile, it was impressive......

[jcl]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

Run the little liter engine at load, see how long it lasts...

That's exactly what I do. My last ten vehicles have had less than 3 litres displacement. Two were diesel. Three were turbocharged. Two towed. No issues with reliability or durability. My current 3 litre six cylinder uses no oil between changes, with 140k on the odometer. Are you saying that it is a ticking time bomb? Have you ever added oil to a larger displacement engine? Better watch out, it may be about to self destruct!

You really shouldn't worry so much about rpm. It is only a relative wear indicator when calculated along with stroke, to get piston speed. Check your long stroke six cylinder, and you will see the difference.

[PKI]

When I looked up the torque curve on the EB, it seems to produce great torque starting much sooner than 4000 rpm. Any chance you might be wrong? Pat

[crispyboy]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Not dead. Expanding. Can't talk about it, but will become apparent in next 12 months or so.

Must you tease us so....... You have to give some hints, spill the beans, come on!

Btw how are the Diesel engines doing in the Cruz, Colorado and Canyon? Any growing pains? Regeneration issues? Has the EPA or scumbag law firm have GM in their cross hairs yet? Just curious. We really miss our diesel Jetta.

[wbrisett]

Originally Posted by Martee

Diesel based vehicles are found all over the world and especially in Europe; where a whopping 53% of family vehicles are high performance Diesels, running with Euro4 emissions requirements. Compared to Europe, the EPA emmisons requirements are quite extravagant and completely unnecessary.

One of the things that came out during the VW scandal was that nearly all of the vehicles in Europe couldn't meet the Euro standards without cheating. Renault has already stated publically that it was considering getting out of diesel all together because it didn't think it could meet the standard and maintain the price point it wanted.

And you know, at the end of the day, that's really it. You absolutely can make a diesel engine that meets the standards, but it means additional costs and those costs must be passed onto the consumer. Nobody wants to pay extra for somethng like an engine, so this leads to the mess we have now.

[wbrisett]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

Btw how are the Diesel engines doing in the Cruz, Colorado and Canyon? Any growing pains? Regeneration issues? Has the EPA or scumbag law firm have GM in their cross hairs yet? Just curious. We really miss our diesel Jetta.

Can't speak on the engines GM is using because I have the 6.6L Duramax. But, when the VW scandal hit, GM asked the EPA for a letter stating that their engine passed the testing the EPA did. They did this to alleviate any fears potential buys may have in buying a diesel Cruze, Canyon, or Colorado.

Wayne

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by jcl

Isn't the conversation about pickups, not Class 8 trucks?

I haven't seen Ecoboost engines worn out after 75000 miles. Have you?

If you like low end torque, you are really going to like the electric vehicles that will largely replace what is out there now.

If you wear out a gas or Diesel engine from the big 3 in less than 200k miles you didn't take care of it properly. All of mine have made it to 300k, even the "terrible" 6.2 Diesel, 6.5 Diesel, and "piston slap" 5.3 gas. And if you say you made it to 200k without doing any work on it...I wouldn't want to buy that one used. (The other brands are probably similar; I just don't have much experience with them so I won't guess)

Comparing pickup trucks to semi trucks is a little ridiculous. Gas and Diesel engines in pickups are geared and designed to make best use of the power and torque curves of each. Neither would work well for starting 80,000lbs on a hill without lots of gears. .

[VernDiesel]

My son and son in law both want an Ecodiesel but may wait until Ford offers the new f150 diesel. They might get neither or used. Seems like EPA has become over reach because nobody is getting to vote on this.