Diesel competition

davidz71 · 01-31-2004, 11:35 AM

I've stated before that I love watching the competition between the big auto companies when it comes to improvements to their diesel engines.
Chevy announced an improved 6.6 Duramax with new variable vane turbocharger (like Ford's new model) and the boosted figures of 310 hp with 590 lb. ft. of torque.
Ford 6.0 stands at 325 hp and 560 lb. ft. of torque.
Dodge has announced their "600" Cummins Diesel rated at 325 hp and 600 lb. ft. of torque at 1600 rmp. This is an increase of 20 hp and 45 lb. ft. of torque over their previously improved High Output version of the Cummins diesel.

Theo · 01-31-2004, 11:44 AM

I will stick with my 1996 F450... 380hp, over 700 ftlb..

All I had to do to get it, was change the injectors, add a larger turbo, and exhaust and get the Banks chip. Beats the price of a new truck anyday.

Theo

davidz71 · 01-31-2004, 12:05 PM

Many people don't realize that modifications can boost the torque and horsepower rating dramatically. Manufacturers are looking to keep the cost low so that the vehicle will be priced within the consumer's reach. They also are into "torque management" which allows them the ability to tune things down so that the drivetrain is not abused resulting in warrantee claims. It is quite evident when you look at Chevy's figures when they mated the 8.1 in front of the 4 sp. auto transmission and compare it to the 8.1 and Allison. Programmers which allow you to defeat or lessen impact of torque management unleash the beast and recover hidden performance.

Larger or improved models of turbos for diesels and juice modules sure help the performance as you stated.

RivetED · 01-31-2004, 01:05 PM

I understand, but hate, the marketing game the Big-3 U.S. manufs play with their 'numbers'. IMHO anyone's similar classed engine is as adequate as the rest.
What I'd like to hear from other A/S owners who pull with a diesel is what kind of mileage you get & what you're pulling. Also, do any of you have an aux. fuel tank?

j54mark · 01-31-2004, 02:02 PM

Fuel consumption is going to be a function of driving habits, speed, terrain, wind, the size and shape of the load, and any number of other variables. I think there was a poll on the topic of gas milage, but it was not restricted to diesels.

That said, I have a '94 Chevy 6.5 turbo diesel 4X4 and, while towing, get not-quite-but-almost 15 mpg on flat highways, down to 12 in the mountains. Say 14 mpg over all. This towing an '85 Sovereign 25', about the same weight as your new Safari.

My extended cab short bed has room only for the 26 gal. tank, which is adequate, no more.

I understand those with the new Duramax do slightly better, and with much more ease.

Mark

wb13798 · 01-31-2004, 03:23 PM

is it true the new ford diesel is a maint night mare ford cant keep them on the road. my son called an advises that ford i recalling all new ford diesels to fix some of the problems. his was the last of the old power strokes engines.

RivetED · 01-31-2004, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wb13798
is it true the new ford diesel is a maint night mare...

his was the last of the old power strokes engines.

So is ours!
As of Nov. '02, ALL diesel engines have to comply with EPA emissions controls that they have been exempt from since the inception of the controls in 1972.
I'm not sure what a maint. nightmare is , with that said , YES there are problems with the intergrated dual fuel injection lines.
Also, since Nov.'02, new sm. diesels also have to meet an overall noise level sans exhust noise. To accomplish this all new sm. diesels employ a dual injection method. (Ford 6.0, Cummins '03+, & Duramax-Isuzu '02+) 1st a sm. squirt of fuel, combustion BTDC, more fuel after TDC for final burn. This causes less piston slap, less noise. This is the sub-system where Ford is/or was having it's problems with the 6.0. That was early on, I've been out of the loop for 10 months.
To add to the new engine design probs. is the requirement of 'exhust gas recirculation' to cut emissions. Makes 'em run hotter.
I shopped hard and far to find a new Ford 7.3l PSD. I'm sure the bugs will be worked out of the newer designs, but I wanted the old & proven engine for our tug. I rarely buy 'cutting-edge' technology.

**wahoonc** · 01-31-2004, 04:15 PM

Anybody added LP injection to a diesel yet? I hear it is a real kick in the britches

wb, Ford was having problems with the early production run 6.0 psd. It is my understanding that they have the problems worked out now. A couple of people on the board have the new 6.0 and so far no reported problems. I just found a 92 7.3 F250 that might just be my new tow vehicle

Aaron

RivetED · 01-31-2004, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wahoonc

I just found a 92 7.3 F250 that might just be my new tow vehicle

Aaron

Aaron, IMHO, I'd go with the 7.3 diesel (see my above post), those engines are known to get 500K mi.+ even when used for commercial towing apps. Is that a turbo model?, I'm not sure when Ford/International 1st started using it.

**wahoonc** · 01-31-2004, 04:40 PM

Ed,
Nope non turbo...I believe they started in 94. But for the money and the condition it can't be beat. And there a plenty of bolt on kits for it. Miles don't scare me at all. I have a 97 F-150 with the 4.2 V-6 that has over 220,000 on it right now and it is still chugging away. I wouldn't hesitate to head for the opposite coast with it tomorrow. Our shop has a 97 F450? with the 7.3 psd with over 200,000 on it. It is about due for another clutch but still going strong, and it pulls a 27' dovetail trailer every where it goes. I much prefer the 7.3 psd at this point in time, until the 6.0 proves its self. I too am one of those that doesn't need to have the newest and the bestest

I look for long term reliability and ease of maintenance. I have an 80 Dodge D300 flat bed with the 360 4spd, 4.56 gears. It will pull the house down, easy to work on always cranks even after setting for weeks. Only problem...8 mpg on a 12 gal gas tank. Who dreamed that one up?

Aaron

Pahaska · 01-31-2004, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ed & Debbie
I understand, but hate, the marketing game the Big-3 U.S. manufs play with their 'numbers'. IMHO anyone's similar classed engine is as adequate as the rest.
What I'd like to hear from other A/S owners who pull with a diesel is what kind of mileage you get & what you're pulling. Also, do any of you have an aux. fuel tank?

Pulling a 25' Classic with a 2004 Duramax/Allison. 15 mpg or more when pulling at 60. About 14 mpg when pulling at 65. 19 to 21 around town.

GM just announced a jump in power for the Duramax, but I'm pleased as punch with what I have (300 hp/520 ft #) pulling this trailer.

The Allison transmission is terrific. Smooth shifts that are almost unnoticeable. While towing at 60, the engine is right on the torue peak and seldom shifts.

No aux fuel tank, but I often wish I had more than the 26 gallons. One nice thing is that I dopn't mind carrying a can of diesel fuel under the bed cover of my truck. Even a 2 gallon can is 30 miles towing the trailer in an emergency.

Porky Pig · 01-31-2004, 05:58 PM

I took delivery on a 2004 Ford F-350 last December. This truck has the 30+ modifications Ford made over the '03 model. The new engine went into production on 09/30/03.

Haven't had a stitch of trouble with it ... runs and tows like a dream ... instead of a nightmare. Most of the problems are concentrated on '03 models assembled before May of 2003.

I hang around TheDieselStop.com quite a bit ... you can go there and learn a great deal ... it is an excellent forum.

overlander63 · 01-31-2004, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Porky Pig
I took delivery on a 2004 Ford F-350 last December. This truck has the 30+ modifications Ford made over the '03 model. The new engine went into production on 09/30/03.

Haven't had a stitch of trouble with it ... runs and tows like a dream ... instead of a nightmare. Most of the problems are concentrated on '03 models assembled before May of 2003.

I hang around TheDieselStop.com quite a bit ... you can go there and learn a great deal ... it is an excellent forum.

Ford has ironed out most of the problems with the new 6.0, as with all new things, it had its share of teething problems. That is why you wait and buy year two production.
To answer another post, one of my customers put Propane on his PSD, with excellent results, at least from a performance standpoint. He has done some other mods to it also, nothing radical, but he still smoked his automatic transmission in 26,000 miles. Another customer has a truck with the PSD, he has two maller turbos to replace the single, a power chip, reflashed computer, propane, an over/underdrive unit, a 60 gallon and a 40 gallon fuel tank setup, and a couple of other things. He currently has 550hp+, and 750 pounds/ft. torque. He gets 18 mpg empty, and 13.5 towing a 10,000 pound trailer. He CAN go almost 1300 miles loaded without a fuel stop, which is pretty cool. Anybody that wants more info about what he did, where he got it, how much it cost, let me know, I will ask him and get back to you here.
Terry

davidz71 · 01-31-2004, 07:05 PM

Many don't remember that when Ford came out with the 7.3 PSD they had all kinds of trouble with it. They were going into the shop left and right. Ford took care of the problem and the 7.3 turned out to be a fairly reliable engine. The 6.0 has shown that it has the numbers to outpull the others in competition that www.pickuptruck.com held but that was before Dodge and Chevy announced their newest diesels/modifications. Go to the above site to read the latest on the Dodge diesel. I still like my 8.1 gas engine and plan on a few modifications in August when my warranty runs out.