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Old 07-24-2005, 04:29 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Porky Pig
You should be able to recoup that $5,000 when you sell it. I just went over to kbb.com and priced out my truck ... as a trade in (the worst scenario ) ... then did it again with the V-10 gas engine.

The diesel returned $4,925 more than the gas. I realize this is only a guide ... but it gives me a pretty good idea where I stand at the end of the day.
Normally, I'd agree Pork. The problem as I see it though is that with rebates up the wazoo, employee pricing all over the place, it's becoming more and more clear that these offers are hurting resale values across the board. Though the diesel will still have a higher return in the end, it might not be the payday some are predicting. Moreover, you are what I would consider an a-typical user. You travel many thousands of miles a year most likely beyond what the 12k to 15k average user. In your case and some others the choice is very clear, but for others it may not be as clear cut of an issue. If the average user does 15k or less, that payback in today's fuel costs put that payback years and years beyond the average user. Pre-2001 I'd have agreed with you 110%. There is however zero question on powe, life of a diesel and fuel economy....in that area the diesel wins hands down.
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Old 07-24-2005, 04:56 PM   #30
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I got a 2005 Ford 250SD 6.0 PSD CC LB in May. It's already got over 7,000 miles.

My average mileage (mostly interstate) not towing is 19.6 and towing is 13.6. I couldn't be happier. I also have a tonneau which may contribute to some improved mileage.

I went with the long bed primarily because of the larger gas tank but the 172" wheel base makes for a smoother ride and the longer bed comes in handy when hauling. It does make parking a challenge sometimes because most parking areas are not designed for vehicles that long.

I personally don't think you could go wrong with any of the big 3 diesel offerings but the built-in brake controller, tow capacity, and the tow mirrors were what swayed me to choose Ford over the others. Ford's mirrors are larger and no one else offers a built-in brake controller. Plus, I got the Ford X (employee) pricing before it became a marketing tool.


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Old 07-24-2005, 06:41 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Normally, I'd agree Pork. The problem as I see it though is that with rebates up the wazoo, employee pricing all over the place, it's becoming more and more clear that these offers are hurting resale values across the board. Though the diesel will still have a higher return in the end, it might not be the payday some are predicting.
I agree that rebates and employee pricing could hurt resale values ... but that is all relative to both diesel and gas powered trucks. Not looking at the final value of the truck ... just the difference.

My plan is to drive the wheels off my truck. I'm confident my diesel will be around a lot longer for that purpose instead of a gas engine. In fact, here's what Blackstone said about my engine from my last oil analysis ...

Wear still looks good, reading far better than average for the 6.0L Power Stroke ... the way this engine is wearing it may outlast all of use. You are getting no wear from rings or bearings ...

Gas engines (as good as they are) still don't measure up to a diesel's projected life span. A diesel engine will realistically last long enough to make that initial price payback.
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Old 07-24-2005, 07:37 PM   #32
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Rebates Schmee-bates

Rebates might contribute to buyers "moving up" in the short term but over time the market should level out and your diesel should keep its attractiveness. I'll admit it would lessen the value if you were selling in this type of market. But oil will never stabilize above $80/barrel... (c'mon, don't you know skepticism when you see it?)

Pork-ster -- Ver-r-r-ry In-tuh-resting website there!!
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Old 07-24-2005, 09:36 PM   #33
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I guess my point is not so much that I don't agree that diesels are better, clearly, they are. The issue is that for the average Joe, driving less than 12k to 15k per year, will spend more money getting a diesel, will spend more money on general maint (oil changes) and though diesels get better fuel econ than a gasser, more places than not diesel costs more than regualr gas, thus pushing the return on investment further out into the future. Though as the diesel ages, it is not near senior citizen status for at least a hundred thousand miles more than a gasser, the rebates and employee discounts have taken what use to be another big plus to owning a diesel (higher resale) and taken about 1/4 of what it use to be off the table. The bene is still there, but it is less.

If you are the average Joe or below, it's just important to understand that a diesel isn't going to save you any money for at least the first 5 years, maybe more, compared to a gasser. At some point however, the diesel will in it's lifetime clearly surpass it's cost and start to pay dividends....it just not like it was in 2001 and earlier where diesel was less expensive, the rebates didn't take a bit bite out of resale, etc.

I hope for all our sakes that oil starts to go down across the board. That way the return on diesel would accelerate, and for those of us with gassers, vacations towing anything would be lighter on the wallet.
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Old 07-24-2005, 10:25 PM   #34
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I appreciate and agree with all that has been said above.

I just wish the Suburbans had diesels in them. The older ones with the 6.2 are scarcer than hens teeth (and I understand were not all that great either). I certainly haven't seen ANY in GA, SC area.

Makes me think that even though the Excursion is way too big and therefore has some restricted towing capacities, its deisel version may now be a relatively good buy on the resale market for two reasons: One the rebate narrowing the difference as stated above, and Two - They are no longer being made.

Any comments on Excursion with deisel vs Burb 2500 with 6.0 in 3-4 yr old vehicles?

Thanks,
Steve
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Old 07-25-2005, 10:02 AM   #35
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Just got back from traveling through New England (up to 12% grades in VT). 2005 Dodge Ram 3500 w/410 rear and 5.9 Cummins. We were towing our 31' Excella. The truck really didn't care about any of the mountains, on one or two it held the gear it was in and didn't come out of overdrive but had plenty of pulling power. Over 1873 miles our average was 13.8 mpg. Average speed on the way up was 65. The way back was 70 (until the last hour, then it was 75). I think I was around 14 mpg until that last hour when my foot got heavy.

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Old 07-25-2005, 10:14 PM   #36
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2.8l German Diesel

Jeep Liberty has a four cylinder diesel w/5 speed auto.

If it could hold a big plow.. it would be sweet...

I guess the 4.8l gas will have to due, the Airstream won't diet.
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Old 07-26-2005, 12:27 AM   #37
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Biodiesel Option

I figure that diesels also give you another option...With gas prices going up (and not stopping anytime soon )....At least with diesels you can change over to biodiesel (made from soy beans or old McDonalds cooking oil )...Now, I hear that stuff does smell...like popcorn or something....
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Old 07-26-2005, 08:35 AM   #38
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I wish Bio-Diesel was an option. It is a renewable product which can be made from what is now considered a waste product. They can also make it from soybeans and can use a blend of diesel and bio diesel. Sadly this is going to need some kind of support to get it started like the alcohol industry. I do not see subsidies on the horizon.
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Old 07-26-2005, 04:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sav'h Steve
Makes me think that even though the Excursion is way too big and therefore has some restricted towing capacities, its deisel version may now be a relatively good buy on the resale market ...

Any comments on Excursion with deisel vs Burb 2500 with 6.0 in 3-4 yr old vehicles?
Hi Steve.

Not sure what restricted towing capaciy one may have with the Excursion. I have a 2005 with a 6.0 L PS Diesel, and it is rated to tow up to 11,000 lbs., and it's wheelbase is 7 inches longer than the Burb (137" vs. 130"), which will make it more stable when towing. My 28 ft CCD comes in at 6,800 lbs with what I have loaded in it, and my Excursion tows it very nicely. I use 1,000 lbs bars and a friction sway bar, and haven't had any issues yet (been fulltiming since May 19, from CA to UT to AZ to NM now in CO and up through the Rockies). The only time I know it is back there is if there is a HUGE gust of wind. I've even towed over US 550 (Million Dollar Highway) between Durango CO and Ouray CO, which is a steep, winding, narrow, and for most people, very scary drive in a passenger car, and even scarier with a 19 ft tow vehicle and 28 ft AS TT behind it. But I wasn't concerned at all. It towed beautifully, and with the Tow/Haul mode, we rarely had to use our brakes as the engine and transmission kept us at a reasonable speed on downhilss. Oh yes, great transmission also.

Can't comment on Excursions that are 3-4 yrs old, but can say that we love our 2005. It tows great, gets better than avg mileage (about 13.7 towing, I've gotten up to 22.36 solo), and has plenty of space for me, my wife, two adult friends who were traveling with us for a month, our large golden retriever, plus all our gear (climbing gear, fishing gear, biking gear, backpacks, etc.). I really like the triple door feature also. No bar in the middle of the rear door to block some of your view like in the Burb. And the rear area folds down and is so large that we put a full sized air mattress in it and our friends used it as their bedroom. In short, we are very satisfied with our purchase. I'd highly recommend one.
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Old 07-26-2005, 05:26 PM   #40
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I have a 2002 Dodge Ram 2500,3/4 ton, 4x4, Quad cab, short bed powered by the 5.9 Cummins Turbo Diesel, and 3.54 rear gears. This thing is one awesome towing machine. It pulls the Sovereign like it isn't even there. I push cars up grades that would eat a gasser pulling the same trailer. My buddy has a 1996 Chevy 3500 customized dually with a 454 BB with only 40k miles on it, and he wanted to pull the AS with it once just to see how it would do. Let's just say that there is one big grade between my house and our favorite campground, and we got stopped by a turning car right in the middle. He nor I could believe how hard that BB had to work to get that rig moving again. It's a great gasser, but it just can't touch a Diesel.
I also do my own oil changes, try adding some Lucas oil stabilizer to your next change. This stuff is great, check them out.
I get about 13.8 MPG to and from work (8 miles, one way on back roads), 17.4 on longer highway trips (at speeds up to 80 mph in WVa), and betwen 12.8 and 14.2 mpg towing the Sovereign depending on terrain (at 70-74 mph).
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Old 07-26-2005, 07:03 PM   #41
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hey you ford diesel guys,

if you have the intercooled turbo diesel go get yourself a spare rubber coupler for the turbo to intercooler pipe. then throw it in your glovebox. it is just a 6 inch section of the blue silicone 3" hose.

i just blew one off a f550 at work today, without the boost the truck will only make 40 mph. it is a ten min. job to replace it. if it blows off it shreds the hose and you are screwed!

talking with our mechanics it is a common problem with these trucks.

my chevy turbo diesel has a metal coupling between the hose clamps to prevent this from happening.

john
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Old 07-26-2005, 07:22 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john hd
hey you ford diesel guys,

if you have the intercooled turbo diesel go get yourself a spare rubber coupler for the turbo to intercooler pipe ...
There is a recall for this problem ... and does not apply to all Ford PowerStrokes.

The recall is 05B29 - CAC Tube Replacement ... you can read about it here.
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