Death Wobble!

[HRTKD]

Originally Posted by SouthForkAS

First look at the tires and the lift.
Looks are deceiving for hi mileage tires. put new ones on the front and your wobble will probably disappear.
If not then:
Suspension lift
This "death wobble" is common for lifted Jeeps of all vintages and other lifted vehicles.
Also sounds like the lift kit is wearing out or you've killed you ball joints: The list gets long, just make sure every bit of the suspension is tight and proper.
But start with the tires first.

Technically, he does not have a lifted truck. I believe he is running the truck in the OEM height. What he was referring to was that in 2017 the height of the truck became much taller than 2016.

This problem predates the 2017+ model years, so I don't think the OEM height is the problem.

[labans]

Turk123----I am really confused by your last post----
"Great Idea! I found a place in mountainview CA. http://www.customalignment.com/equipment.htm

They have that equipment. They also will shave your tires down to make them perfectly round! I can't wait to see how expensive."

The post appears to be dripping with sarcasm (forgive me if it isn't) but I am at a complete LOSS to understand what "expensive" has to do in relation to saving your life???? If what you say is true about this death wobble, than I am stunned that you are ever driving the truck on a public road until you get it fixed. Aren't you, buy your own admission, taking a "chance" every time you drive this truck over 45 mph? And doing this with other cars on the same road? My impression of this discussion is that you are facing a life/death type of situation and truly want to fix the problem. If that is the case then I suggest you take it that way and if it is an expensive fix, then so be it. And I would have hired a lawyer after the very first time this happened.
Think about it----you are no spring chicken and have been driving for decades. So tell us all: When in your ENTIRE life have you ever had a Death Wobble on any other vehicle ever?????
You need to go after the manufacturer if you think that is where the problem is and assure the safety of you, your family and the public at large.
Not being mean here-----please take this well.

[turk123]

Originally Posted by labans

Turk123----I am really confused by your last post----
"Great Idea! I found a place in mountainview CA. http://www.customalignment.com/equipment.htm

They have that equipment. They also will shave your tires down to make them perfectly round! I can't wait to see how expensive."

The post appears to be dripping with sarcasm (forgive me if it isn't) but I am at a complete LOSS to understand what "expensive" has to do in relation to saving your life???? If what you say is true about this death wobble, than I am stunned that you are ever driving the truck on a public road until you get it fixed. Aren't you, buy your own admission, taking a "chance" every time you drive this truck over 45 mph? And doing this with other cars on the same road? My impression of this discussion is that you are facing a life/death type of situation and truly want to fix the problem. If that is the case then I suggest you take it that way and if it is an expensive fix, then so be it. And I would have hired a lawyer after the very first time this happened.
Think about it----you are no spring chicken and have been driving for decades. So tell us all: When in your ENTIRE life have you ever had a Death Wobble on any other vehicle ever?????
You need to go after the manufacturer if you think that is where the problem is and assure the safety of you, your family and the public at large.
Not being mean here-----please take this well.

I reread my post and your right, it does sound sarcastic. Actually I was excited that there is a way to test the tires and even buy new tires and have them mounted properly. NO SARCASM at all!

I actually am willing to have the whole front end rebuilt if need be. This is a serious and dangerous problem. As we traversed the last mountain pass, I was doing 35 and trying not to let my wife know I was actually scared. The death wobble (Ford calls it a "tremor") I've experienced with this truck will not allow you to turn, only go straight when it happens. The implications of that at 4000 ft. I don't even want to think about it.

I do know that after traveling 450 miles more with it that speed definitely is a factor. California has a 55 mph speed limit for pulling trailers. During that stretch, I hit some bad spots in the road with not much concern. I actually can "feel" at this speed if it is coming on and can back off. It happened twice on this trip and it did not have the severity as when going 65. I do not pull faster than 65.

It is just upsetting that Ford is unwilling to be involved with their customers over this problem. I'm sure they are very involved in the solution, but it certainly does not "appear" like it. I'm sure their lawyers are running this show for now.

[Firemanram]

Copied from the Facebook ford ‘death wobble’ page. Ford Isn’t going to Fix the Problem!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1586...3516013413375/

[turk123]

I just got off the phone with the alignment shop. They have worked on f-250 and this problem before. He said the problem is not normally the front stabilizer shock. In fact, he said that shock needs to be very small and light or it will actually cause the death wobble. He said he likes to use OEM parts for that, but we all know he won't be able to get one of those. I can add one later as planned.

He is going to diagnose the whole thing and check all the parts involved. He said most of the time the dealers do not do a thorough job of this.

They work with Tire Rack and can get me tires by the next day. I'm inclined to do this. They want to put my tires through the hunter machine to see how far off they are and if this contributed to the problem. We can then add the new tires with proper balancing.

[GCinSC2]

Turk,

I think one advantage to having a hunter road force balance is the level of technology in the test. Watch hunter YouTube channel for explanations.

After you get a green light or some other report get the findings in writing from the tire shop for each wheel. A written report.

Now when it’s time to work with a dealership and they say it must be the tires you slap the green light report on the counter and consider the next move.

Gary

[Life is a Highway]

O fonts go with the one gut says I went with the factory bulletin in print and with
Working with the techs on the alignment rack. This was not a easy fix it’s bull work enough that I wish I had stayed with A Chevy. That said I also installed Bilstein shock absorbers on my own and am very pleased with the results.

You degrease caster do not increase caster

Originally Posted by turk123

Here we go again!

One guy says to increase the caster angle and now you say to reduce the caster. That is the problem. It seems that this configuration that Ford has created is not solvable by one solution. It is individually a huge headache as each vehicle seems to be different. Ford cannot possibly fix this with the new shock. I'm gonna take this to the alignment shop for a second opinion.

[Life is a Highway]

Old school yes however the fix with 4/4 and 20 inch tires then throw in Ford variable steering they are reducing caster. I was afraid of a wandering truck but it hasn’t been the case. It’s a shame Ford Tough equals downtime in a shop

Originally Posted by DougE

Steering dampers will reduce the effect of wobble but do not cure the cause. Once all worn parts are replaced, the trick is in the alignment. Solid axles need 5 to 7 degrees of caster (close to 7 is better). Ford twin I-beam axles are famous for wandering due to their lack of sufficient caster. Especially on class C rigs 2009 and earlier. Caster was not adjustable but there are aftermarket parts that can correct it. For solid axles, shims are available to add varying amounts of caster in 2 degree increments.

[DougE]

Caster is what keeps the wheels on shopping carts aimed in the right direction. The greater the caster, the greater the "trail". (Distance where a line through the wheel pivot hits the ground to the center of the tire footprint). The higher the amount of caster or trail, the more effort to steer thus, in general, manufacturers go with less caster to make steering easier. The more caster you have, the more pull the steering arms exert on the tie rod and the less likely the steering will wander.

[Moflash]

I have had a 2012,2015 and presently have a 2017 all Platinum F350 SuperCrew 6.7 diesel 4x4 Lwb trucks,all of which I purchased new and pull a 28 ft International as I did with all of them.Never experienced any wobble with any of them.Traveled many miles in all road conditions.wothout any issues.I have 20in wheels and rotate tires every oil change (5000 miles) due to the weight up front with the 6.7 diesel.Replaced tires on all at 30k-35k miles.Replaced stock oem Fake knockoff Rancho shocks with Bilstein 5100’s on all of them when I took delivery on them all when new.
There has to be a common variable to this death wobble problem.

[Life is a Highway]

It’s not old school and I taught for Hunter Alignment it’s a design flaw with the 4/4 straight axle. We tried the caster way out damn near ripped the wheel outta my hands first bump. 3degrees tamed it down no drift no pull no wander. As I said Ford produced the fix if a shop refused to pull it up read it and perform it I can’t help that

Please people if you have the problem have the dealer pull the repair process it’s out there.

Originally Posted by mykytiukr

Seems like when this happens it’s always a Ford! And I have experienced it also. Yep...It was an F350. The cure? If everything seems fine and a mechanic can’t find a problem....adjust it for a little more caster!!!! To the top of the specs or a little over. It will fix it....guaranteed!

[r carl]

Originally Posted by Firemanram

Copied from the Facebook ford ‘death wobble’ page. Ford Isn’t going to Fix the Problem!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1586...3516013413375/

Just as they didn't fix their diesels a few year back.

[tjdonahoe]

Seen one with my own eyes...2007 ford 250...6 liter 278,000 miles..it has oversized 20” tires 12” wide.....the driver side tie rod end broke and the tie rod fell on the ground.....I shook it and the right side was very loose also..wow...

[turk123]

I took the truck today to Custom Alignment at 8:00 am. I was met by the owner and we had a 30-minute conversation about the truck. In the meantime, they pulled the truck in and were ready to diagnose. I'm impressed!

After 15 minutes or so they had me go back and they pointed out 3 bad joints with different amounts of play. Not horrible, but clearly starting to wear. The Universals on both sides were fine although one was recently greased, the other was dry. They turned the wheels as they tested the U joint to 4 different positions and tested for play. Pretty thorough.

They took off the two front tires and tested on the hunter road force balance machine. They were OK! Not the tires.

They will be re-evaluating the stabilizer shock that Ford put on (third party) and I told them to put on 4 new tires. They will be road force balancing them. They said I should still get the Ford shock when available (Palm Springs) and in the meantime, they will replace three struts with joints. A wheel alignment will finish off the job.

I hope this will end the problem. Time will tell.

These guys really know their stuff. As an example, they told me that a lot of guys put on duel Fox front stabilizer shocks to solve the problem and then come in wondering why their truck is wandering all over the road. Too much shock upfront will "hold" the steering wherever you put it and not self-center. Not good and on top of that, it will actually cause death wobble.

[GCinSC2]

Sounds promising, time and miles will tell.

Good luck

[ronderful]

Somebody on this mile long post may have mentioned this already but "death wobble" is a feature of all solid steer axle designs. Many things can cause it generally having to do with stuff getting a little loose. Also the first thing I usually look at is the track bar because it's the usual culprit. It's not a design defect. Best of luck!

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by turk123

I took the truck today to Custom Alignment at 8:00 am. I was met by the owner and we had a 30-minute conversation about the truck. In the meantime, they pulled the truck in and were ready to diagnose. I'm impressed!

After 15 minutes or so they had me go back and they pointed out 3 bad joints with different amounts of play. Not horrible, but clearly starting to wear. The Universals on both sides were fine although one was recently greased, the other was dry. They turned the wheels as they tested the U joint to 4 different positions and tested for play. Pretty thorough.

They took off the two front tires and tested on the hunter road force balance machine. They were OK! Not the tires.

They will be re-evaluating the stabilizer shock that Ford put on (third party) and I told them to put on 4 new tires. They will be road force balancing them. They said I should still get the Ford shock when available (Palm Springs) and in the meantime, they will replace three struts with joints. A wheel alignment will finish off the job.

I hope this will end the problem. Time will tell.

These guys really know their stuff. As an example, they told me that a lot of guys put on duel Fox front stabilizer shocks to solve the problem and then come in wondering why their truck is wandering all over the road. Too much shock upfront will "hold" the steering wherever you put it and not self-center. Not good and on top of that, it will actually cause death wobble.

Hope things work this time. What brand tires did you get; Michelins?

[billrector]

Originally Posted by turk123

They said I should still get the Ford shock when available (Palm Springs) and in the meantime, they will replace three struts with joints. .

Curious....can you elaborate on the struts?

[Spartan Rick]

Just wondering, I've driven F250s over the years from 16 inch (16.5?) through 18 inch. Are more of these problems showing up with the 20 inch rims? Yes, maybe outside diameter may be same or close, but either less flex from lower profile tires on bigger rims, or whatever other variables.. were they put on for style and was anything altered to fit..?
I know, the newer ones will have the 20 inchers so maybe more reports, but in a way could they be like fitting aftermarket wheels?

[Spartan Rick]

I will also say, I've had F150s and driven F250s for work over the years. My trailer is under 6000Lbs. With v8 or ecoboost I've had no trouble towing, and I get to live with the F150 front end. Around 2004 the F150 basically got the F250 rear end as towing capacities climbed and climbed. I really wonder if all the F250 owners really need them vs a good F150 with tow package. (if that is needed anyways now?)