Chrysler 300 - The Saga Continues

[newroswell]

Originally Posted by mstephens

2012 Chrysler 300S with the 3.6L and the 8-speed. It has about 34000 miles.

Dealers repairing Chrysler V6 engines - Autoweek

[mstephens]

Originally Posted by newroswell

Dealers repairing Chrysler V6 engines - Autoweek

Interesting information. I am still waiting to hear the service report. I called earlier and they did get it to overheat (yea! no more argument about that!), so they now are deciding what is the cause.

[xrvr]

That is a start! Get the service records? Jim

[mstephens]

They are pulling the heads off to inspect the block. Possibly a whole motor will be installed.

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by mstephens

They are pulling the heads off to inspect the block. Possibly a whole motor will be installed.

That is interesting they feel they are willing to go the labor hours to pull the heads to determine if they are going to replace the entire engine. I would have guessed a complete enough diagnosis could have been made already to say, "yep, replace engine", or "no, just pull heads, replace head gaskets".

I would certainly look very closely at potential transmission damage. That got very hot too, so the question is, will just a fluid change be sufficient, or does it need to go deeper.
Sorry....but I HATE automatic transmissions....but that's just me.....

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

I would certainly look very closely at potential transmission damage. That got very hot too, so the question is, will just a fluid change be sufficient, or does it need to go deeper.

I'm not sure I follow. The transmission generates far more heat internally than it absorbs from the air flowing through the engine compartment or from conduction across the bellhousing. Surely the OP has an oil-to-air auxiliary transmission cooler that would keep transmission temperatures low.

Sorry....but I HATE automatic transmissions....but that's just me.....

..shrug.. not sure why you're dispensing advice on how to save them, then.

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I'm not sure I follow. The transmission generates far more heat internally than it absorbs from the air flowing through the engine compartment or from conduction across the bellhousing. Surely the OP has an oil-to-air auxiliary transmission cooler that would keep transmission temperatures low.



..shrug.. not sure why you're dispensing advice on how to save them, then.

The transmission was subjected to abnormally high heat during the two failed towing attempts. Added heat was likely applied to the transmission fluid from both the fact the factory transmission cooling passes thru the engine radiator and the fact the transmission housing is mechanically bolted to the engine block. Auto transmission fluid degrades rapidly when overheated. Some parts in the transmission can also be degraded due to overheat. The OP is near the end of the warranty on this vehicle, so if there is any damage done to the trans because of the overheat problem, then obviously it's in the best interest of his pocketbook to get this remedied while it is under warranty.

I'm not sure why you question my comments regarding the use of automatic transmissions just because I state that I hate them ? I have now, and have owned over my 45 years of driving, many automatic transmissions. Also many manual transmissions.
Maybe this will be more palatable to you: I personally prefer a manual transmission for my driving needs, because they do not suffer the issues of overheating fluid, added heat from a torque converter, etc.

[mstephens]

Well, so far I have only talked with service advisor, who functions as a clerk. But, it looks like I will sell this car after getting it back. New heads or new engine both would be reason to unload. Lemon is lemon.

I clearly made a mistake. It happens in life. I did not do enough research into the V6 inherent design flaws. I was too focused on the towing add-ons to search the reliability issues. My bad. All that head failure data was available. My enthusiasm got me burned. Funny, I considered the Hemi, but then figured the gas mileage was too low.

Not sure what we will do from here, as it might take time to unload this car. I am not seeing too much camping in the near future.

[Jim Flower]

My brand new 1989 Jeep Cherokee developed a knock in one of its pistons at 3000 k. The dealer fixed it. I (along with my kids) then proceeded to put about 500,000 k on the thing before I gave it to the Kidney Foundation about 20 years later. It looks like you may not be alone with the issue and that a solution has been engineered. I would not be inclined to throw out the baby with the bath water. But then I like the adventure. Wife, not so much. We can find other stuff to agree on. Jim

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by mstephens

Well, so far I have only talked with service advisor, who functions as a clerk. But, it looks like I will sell this car after getting it back. New heads or new engine both would be reason to unload. Lemon is lemon.

I clearly made a mistake. It happens in life. I did not do enough research into the V6 inherent design flaws. I was too focused on the towing add-ons to search the reliability issues. My bad. All that head failure data was available. My enthusiasm got me burned. Funny, I considered the Hemi, but then figured the gas mileage was too low.

Not sure what we will do from here, as it might take time to unload this car. I am not seeing too much camping in the near future.

Your frustration is understandable, but if I were in your situation, I'd wait and see what all is damaged, why it was damaged (there might have been something like a casting flaw), and how it does after the repair.

Like has been said many times in this thread, given the faulty recovery tank and cap, any vehicle would have overheated.

But, that's just my opinion, and if were still working, I'd be looking for a good dual use vehicle also.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by mstephens

Well, so far I have only talked with service advisor, who functions as a clerk. But, it looks like I will sell this car after getting it back. New heads or new engine both would be reason to unload. Lemon is lemon.

I clearly made a mistake. It happens in life. I did not do enough research into the V6 inherent design flaws. I was too focused on the towing add-ons to search the reliability issues. My bad. All that head failure data was available. My enthusiasm got me burned. Funny, I considered the Hemi, but then figured the gas mileage was too low.

Not sure what we will do from here, as it might take time to unload this car. I am not seeing too much camping in the near future.

Don't be too hard on yourself. You bought a used car from a dealer that had been traded in, probably because it had leaking head gasket. They only get worse with time and your initial tow pushed it over the edge. Wait till you get it back to test. I blew engines and transmissions in my early off-roading days and just rebuilt them better and stronger. A new engine is better than what you started with.

Anyway thanks for sharing your your experiences. Many here will fault you for trying. But you can modify vehicles to perform better than OEM. Over 6000 SEMA companies have proven that.

[Stefrobrts]

I don't think I'd blame you for letting it go after that, and if they put a new engine in it, that probably won't be too hard to sell.

It's a shame because I don't think you really did anything to it, it sounds like it was ready to break when you got it As we say with the old cars, if it broke it needed to be replaced anyway.

Buying a V6 AWD Charger was at the top of our list for tow vehicles as well just a couple months ago, and I never read anything about problems with the V6 engine, and I was researching my options pretty heavily.

[jcl]

I would encourage you to let them fix it and see what the service report says. If it says there was a faulty cylinder head or block, fine. What you want to know then is what is different about the new one they put in. If it is exactly the same, then you can decide what to do. But if they have addressed the problem (as they claim to have done) with a revised casting or design or manufacturing process, then that should be evaluated before throwing in the towel.

[ggoat!!!]

Chrysler has "revised" the new replacement cylinder heads SEVERAL times now...and the problem persists, MUCH more common in the vehicles that run hotter (such as the Jeep Wrangler). As a matter of fact, Chrysler's "fix" in part on such hotter-running vehicles involves a thinner viscosity oil as well as reprogramming the computer for the fans to come on sooner. But, it's all just a stop-gap patch fix, prolonging the inevitable on the Pentastar. The latest heads released (just read the nearly 200 page thread on the Wrangler forum linked above) still don't solve the problem. The exhaust valves fail under excessive workload and heat. The Pentastar has an integrated exhaust manifold in the head itself which is thought to cause the failure. But, so far...Chrysler blames poor gas, "driving habits" (whatever that is), and is replacing heads on an hourly basis...for the last TWO YEARS with no end in sight.

Avoid the Pentastar.

[handn]

Every car I have had which has seriously overheated has had residual problems of the nature that the other posters have illustrated in this thread. Your dealer replaced the puke tank, cleaned up the mess and claims it is fixed. I think he should have done some things to check further rather than just get you out the door.
Since you continue to have problems you know that your car is a long way away from being fixed.
It is up to the dealer, not you, to diagnose and fix the problem, even if it involves expensive repairs. All you can do at this point is be patient and work through the process and not kick yourself for buying the wrong car. Most of us have been there and done that and share your pain.
I would drive the car minimally. You want it fixed before the warranty runs out even though the warranty should apply regardless of mileage since the problem arose and was brought to the dealers attention during the warranty period.
Get the car fixed and then evaluate whether it is a suitable tow vehicle.
You are towing in tough conditions--100 degree + summer heat and steep climbs. You may be asking a boy to do a man's job and need a vehicle with a tow rating well in excess of the weight of your rig.

[MrUKToad]

MStephens,

Thanks for sharing. I had a similar issue with a Honda inspired Rover engine in a car I had in the UK. It was out of warranty and I wasn't in a position to just sell it on after it was fixed; too much hard-earned cash had been spent on the repair. As it happened, I was glad I didn't because I managed to put another 100,000 miles on it before selling it on. The moral of the tale is that a fixed car can sometimes work for you (just trying to cheer you up!)

[newroswell]

I would really push for them to extended the warranty on the engine and transmission after this. The numbers in that article don't don't add up either. 1300 affected, but up to 500 new issues a week. I'm a Jeep guy and I know a lot of them got burned and went without brand new vehicles for weeks.

Nissan had some problems with some CV transmissions. They recently sent us a notice that the transmission warranty in our Murano would be doubled from 5 year - 60,000 miles to 10 years - 120,000 miles, even though we have never had a problem with it.

As for damage from engine heat, I would bet it's a non issue. These trans run hotter now anyway with the new ATF to improve gas milage. At the very least, have them change the fluid+filter, no charge! Don't give up on it yet.

845RE / 8R70: ZF 8-Speed Automatic Transmission for Chrysler cars

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by ggoat!!!

Chrysler has "revised" the new replacement cylinder heads SEVERAL times now...and the problem persists, MUCH more common in the vehicles that run hotter (such as the Jeep Wrangler). As a matter of fact, Chrysler's "fix" in part on such hotter-running vehicles involves a thinner viscosity oil as well as reprogramming the computer for the fans to come on sooner. But, it's all just a stop-gap patch fix, prolonging the inevitable on the Pentastar. The latest heads released (just read the nearly 200 page thread on the Wrangler forum linked above) still don't solve the problem. The exhaust valves fail under excessive workload and heat. The Pentastar has an integrated exhaust manifold in the head itself which is thought to cause the failure. But, so far...Chrysler blames poor gas, "driving habits" (whatever that is), and is replacing heads on an hourly basis...for the last TWO YEARS with no end in sight.

Avoid the Pentastar.

I too have seen some things on the 'net ( so we take it for what it's worth....but still... ) that some are blaming the siamesed exhaust ports for concentrating heat in a small enough area to be causing expansion and warpage issues.
And as we all know, leaning hard on the pedal for extended periods ( towing, anyone ? ) raises exhaust gas temp to higher values than simple low load cruise. Ask anyone who ran a big block Chevy motor in a class A motorhome about cracked exhaust manifolds after long uphill pulls.

[m.hony]

I wouldn't sell the car just yet.
But, if in the future it continues to have problems, break down often, or become too expensive to maintain, then get rid of it.
We had a Ford Taurus (2 in fact) that had to have head gaskets.
The first one ended up wrecked.
The second one, after head gasket and other expensive repairs it began to average $300 per month in upkeep and was still not dependable. When the air conditioning quit (the car was black with leather seats) and was going to cost at least $1,200 to fix we sold the car.
Then I bought my Tundra...
Then I bought a SOB travel trailer...
Then I bought an Airstream...

[m.hony]

Life is good!