Chrysler 300 - The Saga Continues

[SteveH]

Just my opinion here, but I think you have had a series of events that have led you to where you are now. First, you had a bad coolant reservoir and a bad cap. Those led to the first overheating "event", which probably did some damage to the engine. Then you took it to the dealer for repair, and they only fixed what was staring them in the face not checking for further damage to the engine such as possible leaking head gaskets or warped heads.

I would wait until the dealer goes thru it, and see how it works. Usually, the second time they get a vehicle in for the same problem they will really go thru it, because they know if they get it back the third time, the state Lemon Laws will be applicable, at least around here.

If it still overheats, and even if after the warranty runs out, the history is there that they didn't fix it right. I'd keep after them until it's right. Then start your towing tests all over again. Again, just my opinion.

[mstephens]

Thanks Steve. Yeah, it's been a nervous weekend waiting to get it to the shop, jumping to one conclusion after another, and just being generally mad about the whole thing. Too much time to think about it. So, I am going to give the dealer a chance to sort it out, and remain calm until he does.

FWIW, in defense of the 300, it has gobs of power and tows very smooth. It is not anywhere near "gutless." It stormed up the big grade at 55 MPH and I could easily have done 65. The transmission is smooth, swift, and sure and it is a pleasure to operate with the paddle shifters in manual mode. This overheating is an "overlay" of a car specific problem that didn't have anything to do with towing. Unfortunate coincidence. I guess I'll see what happens in the next day or two.

[TouringDan]

Sounds like the Chrysler 300 should be a good TV for you if you can get the overheating problem sorted out. The fact that it has paddle shifters should help downshifting when towing. My Tundra 6 speed tranny does not have paddle shifters but it has a floor mounted shift that that really makes it easy to downshift. I use it all the time when slowing down both towing and non towing.

Just a thought. Does the dealer have another 300 that you could test drive so you could measure the temperatures with your tester to see what "normal" temperature readings are for a given situation.

Dan

[jcl]

Sounds like jumping to conclusions if the response to a vehicle overheating while not towing is to trade it in. Give them a chance to fix it. Make sure that the work order documents the complaint, so that you have that on file before the warranty runs out. Let them fix it, even if it takes additional visits. This isn't rocket science.

When you get it fixed, use it without the trailer until you get your confidence back. If you want to trade it then, fine. The most logical thing to do would be to get another 300 that you could use your current receiver on, since you say you like the vehicle and that model has a history of successful towing.

If it couldn't pull the hills, or you didn't have sufficient payload for what you want to bring along, that is a good reason for a larger vehicle. A larger truck may be the right thing for you, but that shouldn't be concluded based on a rad cap and expansion tank.

[ggoat!!!]

Originally Posted by jcl

Sounds like jumping to conclusions if the response to a vehicle overheating while not towing is to trade it in. Give them a chance to fix it. Make sure that the work order documents the complaint, so that you have that on file before the warranty runs out. Let them fix it, even if it takes additional visits. This isn't rocket science.

When you get it fixed, use it without the trailer until you get your confidence back. If you want to trade it then, fine. The most logical thing to do would be to get another 300 that you could use your current receiver on, since you say you like the vehicle and that model has a history of successful towing.

If it couldn't pull the hills, or you didn't have sufficient payload for what you want to bring along, that is a good reason for a larger vehicle. A larger truck may be the right thing for you, but that shouldn't be concluded based on a rad cap and expansion tank.

The simple fact of the matter is that while the original problem may have very well been a faulty cap and/or cracked expansion tank, once the car hit 260 while towing a load up a long climb it was very likely that further damage occurred to a head and/or head gasket...not to mention the life-shortening effects that such engine-overheating imparts on the transmission by way of superheating the fluid and the coupling effects of it being bolted to a smoldering hot engine block. And, this being a Pentastar 3.6L, they are known for needing head replacements on the left side due to faulty exhaust valve seating that is aggravated by excessive heat...just read the Jeep Wrangler forums (where these engines run MUCH hotter than in a 300) and read the literally thousands of posts regarding the Pentastar head failures.

Heat + Pentastar + history of overheating and need for head replacements caused by excessive heat + decreased transmission life caused by overheated engine = not a good trailer puller for the distant future.

Honestly, given the history of the Pentastar head failures (with no true fix yet from Chrysler) that are caused by excessive heat, I would stay away from ANY Pentastar-equipped Chrysler as a tow vehicle...and that includes nearly EVERY vehicle they make. Just check out this nearly 6000 (six thousand!) post 195 page (195!!!) thread about Pentastar head failures and Chrysler's attempt to disregard the tell-tale "ticking" sound that is the sign of impending doom:

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f274/up...ad-137608.html

...and that includes the current Caravans and Town & Country vans.

[xrvr]

Again I ask if you obtained all warranty work documentation for this vehicle before you bought it. This should be available from your dealer no matter where the work was done. This could give you an idea of why the car was traded in or at least what was done to it. Jim

[Jammer]

It's tricky to diagnose cooling systems in person and pretty much impossible over the internet.

It is common for heads to warp when a coolant leak leads to a loss of coolant, leading to head gasket leaks. The problem doesn't always show up right away when this happens.

As others have pointed out, head gasket problems are difficult to diagnose especially in the early stages. Sometimes the combustion-gas tests will work, but not always. I recently found a head gasket leak by leaving a cooling system pressure tester in place overnight -- one of the cylinders was full of coolant in the morning.

No easy answers for fighting the warranty/service/dealer fight. Keep it up, good luck, sorry for your pain on that.

As a public service, I would like to point out that an F-350 with an inoperative cooling system does not tow any better than a Chrysler 300 with an inoperative cooling system.

[xrvr]

Yes but a 350 looks a lot more impressive being towed. Jim

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by Jammer

As a public service, I would like to point out that an F-350 with an inoperative cooling system does not tow any better than a Chrysler 300 with an inoperative cooling system.

I'm not "up to snuff" on all things Ford, but I also don't think you can find an engine in an F-350 with aluminum heads.

[Jammer]

SteveH is it your experience then that cast iron heads never warp or crack?

[mstephens]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Again I ask if you obtained all warranty work documentation for this vehicle before you bought it. This should be available from your dealer no matter where the work was done. This could give you an idea of why the car was traded in or at least what was done to it. Jim

No. I didn't know that was even available. I'll see if I can check with the dealer I bought it from.

[mstephens]

Well, I was second in line this morning. I got the service manager and had a long conversation about this. I had prepared a written description of all the heating issues. He stapled one copy to the service order, and I taped another to the dashboard for the mechanic, just in case.

So, we'll see.

As to the Pentastar engine. I dunno. I'll look into that. But again, the available data, which consists of the many Pentastars that CanAm have used for TVs doesn't indicate lots of failures. I might be relying too much on that, but it is real data.

[GCinSC2]

mstephens,

Care to share the full make model engine and year of your car? I might have missed it in all the info.

Gary

[mstephens]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

mstephens,

Care to share the full make model engine and year of your car? I might have missed it in all the info.

Gary

2012 Chrysler 300S with the 3.6L and the 8-speed. It has about 34000 miles.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by Jammer

SteveH is it your experience then that cast iron heads never warp or crack?

It is my experience they warp and crack less frequently than cast aluminum..

As an example of the difference in strength of materials, GM has a 6.2L all aluminum engine, but they won't put it in the 3/4 ton trucks, they will only put the 6.0L in the 3/4 ton trucks because it has a cast iron block.

[GCinSC2]

I just tried to look for any TSB's in Mitchell, I didn't have any luck.

[Alphonse]

Originally Posted by SteveH

It is my experience they warp and crack less frequently than cast aluminum..

As an example of the difference in strength of materials, GM has a 6.2L all aluminum engine, but they won't put it in the 3/4 ton trucks, they will only put the 6.0L in the 3/4 ton trucks because it has a cast iron block.

Ford Super Duty diesels have compacted graphite iron blocks with aluminum heads. By the way, I suspect that most of the diesel engines are using the compacted graphite iron these days for the blocks.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by SteveH

It is my experience they warp and crack less frequently than cast aluminum..

As an example of the difference in strength of materials, GM has a 6.2L all aluminum engine, but they won't put it in the 3/4 ton trucks, they will only put the 6.0L in the 3/4 ton trucks because it has a cast iron block.

I generally agree with Steve, although there have been some great advances in cast aluminum technologies (spelled $$$$$, though).

There is also a consideration for the structural rigidity of iron alloys over aluminum. It is anticipated that a 2500, 6.0L will see a different high torque duty cycle than a 1500 6.2L. I'm not talking about the occasional smooth, pedal to the floor, on an on ramp pulling an AS. But rather the gut wrenching repeated high torque of a loaded truck pulling a backhoe on an off road construction site.

For us here, I would LOVE to see a spec derated 2500 with a 6.2L designed solely for highway recreational towing....or a 6.2L Max Tow with about 600 more pounds of rear axle capacity.

But I'm a dreamer.

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by Alphonse

Ford Super Duty diesels have compacted graphite iron blocks with aluminum heads. By the way, I suspect that most of the diesel engines are using the compacted graphite iron these days for the blocks.

....yeah....and they don't like it when you overheat them either !

....ask my buddy Jason about that......scratch one powerstroke......

[Bruce B]

Originally Posted by mstephens

............

As to the Pentastar engine. I dunno. I'll look into that. But again, the available data, which consists of the many Pentastars that CanAm have used for TVs doesn't indicate lots of failures. I might be relying too much on that, but it is real data.

I have one thought. Statistically, all of Can-Am's customers make up such a small percentage of the total number of this type of engine that using their reported incidence of failure is almost meaningless. Certainly it would be nice to know but I believe it can not be the sole data source.

I question too whether every failure of a Can-Am Chrysler 300 cylinder head would necessarily be public knowledge.

I have no knowledge of Chrysler 3.6 liter cylinder head issues but that doesn't mean much of anything. It will be interesting to see what the dealer finds...

Good luck,
Bruce

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