Chrysler 300 - The Saga Continues

[gmw photos]

hey Mark,
I'm wondering too if the engine computer through any codes when it got hot ? Do you know if the mechanic had to clear any codes and if so, what they were ? I'm wondering if it went into a "fail-safe" mode which may have been why it would not let you re-start until it cooled ?

As for stopping to help stranded folks, I have, over the years either stopped when I could, or driven on by. For instance, if I have the horse trailer on and a truck full of teenage girls, I am not going to risk them by being parked at the side of the road. Different situations result in different responses. Different topic for another day I suppose.

[Aage]

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[mstephens]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

hey Mark,
I'm wondering too if the engine computer through any codes when it got hot ? Do you know if the mechanic had to clear any codes and if so, what they were ? I'm wondering if it went into a "fail-safe" mode which may have been why it would not let you re-start until it cooled ?

As for stopping to help stranded folks, I have, over the years either stopped when I could, or driven on by. For instance, if I have the horse trailer on and a truck full of teenage girls, I am not going to risk them by being parked at the side of the road. Different situations result in different responses. Different topic for another day I suppose.

No codes. Just warning lights and buzzers. My manual is on disk (yuck) I'll dig it out and see if there is a fail safe mode. I can't say I will be happy if there is. I am not that trusting of small computer chips to make big decisions.

[jcanavera]

Tough call on the pulling over situation. As another has noted if the conditions were dangerous I'd also question pulling over to assist. We got multiple stories here in our area of folks who have stopped to help others only to be hit on the road shoulder by someone else not paying attention.

As a matter of fact I saw on the Interstate, a fellow pulling a pop up get killed by a guy who rear ended his pop up on a narrow Interstate shoulder as the pop up owner was changing a blown tire. Thankfully the guy who was killed had directed his wife and kids to get out of the car and stand in the center of the median so they were not hurt, but it obviously was a horrific situation. As he recognized the danger for his family, I'm surprised the danger he put himself into attempting the tire change. The guy who hit him had drifted over the white line of the shoulder marking.

What I do if I see situations like this is to place a call to 911 and report a stranded motorist in a dangerous situation. If cell service isn't available, I make the call as soon as I get a signal. At least I have the satisfaction that someone is on the way and that I don't put myself and my wife in a dangerous situation.

Jack

[mstephens]

Another Failed Road Test

We started out driving around town until the temp stabilized at 220F. Then we got on the freeway and went 5mi to our gas station. Shut it off, got gas, started back out. Within 1 mile on the freeway at 55MPH it shot up to 260F and red lights alarms. Pulled over. It just wouldn't cool. We tried first idling it, and after ten minutes was still 255F. We shut it off for 1/2 hour and got it to 240. We limped it home on the surface roads at 30MPH. It was swinging between 230F and 255F. We stopped twice. Oddly, on one stop it fell after 5 minutes to 214F. But then in one block was back to 250F. NO loss of coolant this time.

I am totally convinced the coolant is not circulating. Either the pump is not working, or the thermostat is sticking. A modern car should cool within minutes when you stop and idle it. Outside temp was 72F.

I will go back to the shop and try to insist they replace the thermostat or do deeper trouble shooting.

Fairly discouraged at this point. I suppose I will try once more at the shop, but then I will probably throw in the towel, eat crow, sell the car and move on. We now have 0% confidence in the rig. I'd rather be wrong and just move on than to constantly be in fear that the rig will strand us.

[Stefrobrts]

I think you need to get this fixed and get some miles on it (without towing anything) to decide if you can regain trust in this car. It's a shame to have this happen, but cars do have problems sometimes, and once they are fixed it should be good for many more miles. We had a cooling problem about five years ago with our van, which resulted in three incidents of being towed to the shop before it was all sorted out (new hoses, new radiator, replacement because the new radiator was bad). It shook my confidence in it for a while, but since then we have had no cooling issues. Once you sort this out, you might have many trouble free miles ahead of you, and if you buy another vehicle you will probably just have to start over and work out the bugs in that one! Good luck!

[Phoenix]

A quick search of the Internet provides this possible list of problems. See highlights, below:

* Thermostat -- Installed backwards or defective.

* Fan sensor defective -- Bad sensor delays radiator fan motor activation or does not turn on at all.

* Air in cooling system -- Radiator is lower than engine, so air accumulates in engine block and must be purged while engine is running. See link below for details; or buy special coolant system bleed kit, which is approximately $40 at parts stores.

* Blockage in air dam -- Prevents proper airflow to radiator.

* Clogged pipe between engine and thermostat -- Could be caused by previous cooling system repairs, which left debris in system that circulated and accumulated in pipe and/or thermostat.

* Blown head gasket or cracked block -- Check by doing a pressure test of cooling system to verify it holds pressure. One odd symptom is that coolant can appear to "boil out" even when engine is cold. Combustion chamber gases are pumped into cooling system at higher pressure than radiator cap, so it appears to be boiling over. Bad consequence is that pressurized coolant is pumped back into combustion chamber when engine is turned off. This contaminates engine oil with radiator fluid, which will ruin engine bearings, etc. Some symptoms will be white tailpipe smoke, disappearing coolant, and foamy engine oil with water droplets in it.

* Extremely low profile tires -- Increases engine RPM at cruising speeds and causes overheating.

* Vehicle overloaded.

Note: Link to Website with more details on the above items: Chrysler 300M Questions - 99 Chrysler 300m 3.5 engine started to overheat - CarGurus

Just curious... Since this car is probably still under warranty, is there a reason you aren't having dealer troubleshoot this problem?

Good luck!

[gmw photos]

Mark,
Do you have a scangauge you own or can borrow ? At those "temps", I would have guessed it would have puked some coolant. I am wondering if it was really that hot on today's drive. Like maybe a senser or the readout is incorrect.
You didn't say in the above post, but I am assuming this was towing ?

If the pump was not circulating, or if the t-stat was stuck, it would overheat even if not towing, I would think ?

EDIT: I suppose it is also possible that the radiator is clogged with left over casting debris ( sand ) when the engine block and heads were cast.

[Aage]

Perhaps I missed it, but were you towing in this instance? Very sorry to hear you haven't got a green light yet!

It does sound like something basic is still bad. Perhaps the fault wasn't a cracked overflow box, but rather the cracked box might have just been caused by the true fault.

Eagerly wanting for the next chapter! Hang in there man, you WILL get to the bottom of the problem.

[xrvr]

Post number one.....took it to the dealer. Needs to go back and have a long road test done. Jim

[perryg114]

Once a thermostat has been overheated, the fluid inside them can come out and from then on it won't open. There are other issues like what damage the overheating did to the engine. Good luck getting it sorted out.

Perry

[Loungemusic]

One of the best ways to make a quick and dirty assessment of coolant circulation within an overheating engine is to turn the heater on full blast. If coolant is circulating you should get some very hot air very fast. It should also cause a rapid drop in engine temperature though exactly how much depends on the car and situation. In many years of meddling with old cars I’ve had to use this a few times. My feeling is that if the heater puts out and the temperature drops then I’m comfortable limping the car along a short distance since coolant is circulating, if there is no hot air then I’ll shut the engine off immediately as either there is insufficient coolant or it is somehow blocked from circulating.

It’s important to remember that circulating coolant does two things within an engine: firstly it moves heat to the radiator to be expelled, and secondly it modulates temperatures within the engine. Most of the heat in an engine is made in the cylinder head near the combustion chambers. If coolant under proper pressure isn’t circulating as designed it is entirely possible to get localized overheating and steam pockets in the head even if the water temperature doesn’t indicate overheating; in short the average temperature of the engine is within acceptable limits but it is too hot in one or more areas that aren’t getting proper coolant circulation. This situation used to be most common in cars without low coolant warning lights that were operated for short trips in cool climates; the owner might never notice a low coolant level caused by a small leak. Ultimately this can lead to leaky head gaskets or cracked heads due to thermal stresses.

As this point I’d be wondering why such an otherwise very nice car got traded at a low mileage during winter in an area known for brutally high summer temperatures. Both the bad radiator cap and leaky reservoir could indicate previous bouts of overheating, possibly caused initially by the leaky reservoir. I assume you have a warranty on the car, I’d take it back to the dealer and demand that he do every possible check for any cooling system maladies since these can render the car undriveable with or without a TT once summer hits in the desert. Chrysler builds and sells too many of these cars under both Chrysler and Dodge brands for overheating to be normal, this car has a problem and it should be fixed.

[GCinSC2]

Sorry to hear it ain't fixed. Don't know your automotive DIY skills but I watched a tech pinpoint a stuck t-stat on a 7.3L Ford with an infrared point and read thermometer. Traced the coolant flow and proved the failure. When I got home I bought one. It has more potential diagnostic ability than we can discuss.

Good luck

Gary

[andreasduess]

Ah, crap. So sorry to hear that the problem still persists. I'd be fed up as well.

The only thing I can offer is that there are many, many Grand Caravans with the same (or very similar) drivetrain and engine that perform without any issues at all. Two of them I know in person, one of these has crossed the continent with their rig, across the Rockies during summer.

There has to be an issue with the car.

[mstephens]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Just curious... Since this car is probably still under warranty, is there a reason you aren't having dealer troubleshoot this problem?

Good luck!

It was at the dealer last week from the first boil over. They replaced the reservoir (cracked) and said they thoroughly tested it, including a pressure test and road test. I had told them I knew that the reservoir wasn't the end of the problem. I can tell when a t'stat is not working. But they won't do anything unless they can "see" the proof. I will be back at the dealer Monday, and give a written detailed report of the problem.

[mstephens]

Sorry, today was a towing test. I really didn't think I needed to test the car by itself. So, assuming it was fixed we hitched up and tried a small test up the I10 which climbs at about 2% for 30 miles.

The oddity was that it was stable at 220F. Then after we gassed up, it shot right up to 260 in a matter of 1 minute on the freeway. That's why I keep thinking something is sticking.

BTW, fan is working fine. And no blockage in front of the grill.

[mstephens]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

Mark,
Do you have a scangauge you own or can borrow ? At those "temps", I would have guessed it would have puked some coolant. I am wondering if it was really that hot on today's drive. Like maybe a senser or the readout is incorrect.
You didn't say in the above post, but I am assuming this was towing ?

If the pump was not circulating, or if the t-stat was stuck, it would overheat even if not towing, I would think ?

EDIT: I suppose it is also possible that the radiator is clogged with left over casting debris ( sand ) when the engine block and heads were cast.

I have an OBDII reader. Is that what you mean? Are you saying the gauge is giving false info? I don't think so. I opened the hood and it was HOT under there.

Also...
I have no DIY chops for automotive work. I did in 1966, but not today.

Also...
While pulled over on the side of I10, a very nice Airstreamer from Ontario, Canada (ironic, huh?) stopped to lend a hand. Thank you WBCCI #11000!

[gmw photos]

Originally Posted by mstephens

I have an OBDII reader. Is that what you mean? Are you saying the gauge is giving false info? I don't think so. I opened the hood and it was HOT under there.

Also...
I have no DIY chops for automotive work. I did in 1966, but not today.

Also...
While pulled over on the side of I10, a very nice Airstreamer from Ontario, Canada (ironic, huh?) stopped to lend a hand. Thank you WBCCI #11000!

Well, a scangauge2 is a glorified OBD2 reader. The beauty of it is you can leave it connected and get real time info. I just thought if you had one, it could be plugged in to verify the same ( or different ) numbers you are getting on the dash display.
At the temps you were seeing, one would think it would have gone into limp mode, and thrown some codes. Hopefully the tech at the dealer can get to the bottom of this.

[HiHoAgRV]

Originally Posted by mstephens

Sorry, today was a towing test. I really didn't think I needed to test the car by itself. So, assuming it was fixed we hitched up and tried a small test up the I10 which climbs at about 2% for 30 miles.

The oddity was that it was stable at 220F. Then after we gassed up, it shot right up to 260 in a matter of 1 minute on the freeway. That's why I keep thinking something is sticking.

BTW, fan is working fine. And no blockage in front of the grill.

After years of wrenching, here is my guess at your problem.

The PO had a cooling failure, a split coolant tank. When stuff got hot due to low coolant they refilled it with tap water...repeating over and over...(once again, I've been here and done this from my early years of driving junk)

From my experience a thermostat that goes from antifreeze to water will almost always stick. There is your problem.

I've also had a high rate of water pump failure when running on water. The antifreeze has lubricant in it and the water causes the inner seal to fail, followed by the bearing.

Good luck!!!

[J. Morgan]

Is a bigger radiator available for this car?

While there may in fact be something wrong with the car, cars today are not but with a lot of excess system capacity.

Any radiator is only capable of dissipating so much heat at a given temperature and pulling a trailer against air creates an amount of heat over a continuous period of time that the car would have never seen without the trailer.

It is a BTU thing. The cooling system must be able to dissipate enough heat to keep things in a state of equilibrium.

Do not underestimate the amount of heat generated towing a trailer even on flat ground, and don't over estimate
the amount of heat the stock thin radiator can move to the air