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Old 03-05-2014, 07:13 AM   #295
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Hope your problems are now over. Enjoy your AS. Jim
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:14 AM   #296
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now...how does one avoid an un-modified 3.6 if one is poking around in the used Chrysler market?
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:28 AM   #297
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Hi, most newer cars have "torque to yield" or stretch head bolts; You only torque them once and only use them once.
Ahhh, that would explain the line on the repair order "Head Bolt Kit"

Cool.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:32 AM   #298
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now...how does one avoid an un-modified 3.6 if one is poking around in the used Chrysler market?
Good question. I am sure there are ID numbers or something. But when you open the hood, man oh man, it is jam packed in there and very hard to see much in the way of numbers.
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:34 AM   #299
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now...how does one avoid an un-modified 3.6 if one is poking around in the used Chrysler market?
Thinking the only way is to buy one is from a reputable Chrysler dealer where the complete vehicle service history can be reviewed on their system. Then go from there. The other option is to consider another make/model of vehicle that has a positive vehicle reliability record and has a Can Am recommendation for use as a TV.
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Old 03-05-2014, 02:18 PM   #300
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Mstephens,

Hope this is a start for good times, but you might carefully consider driving it HARD NOW! Find out if it's fixed . Be careful be safe but does that dog hunt, yes or no?

Gary
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:32 PM   #301
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I got my car back this evening. I took it for a small torture test around town and the temp stayed good. While crawling slow for 10 minutes it will get to 215, and when driving fast it goes down to 203. They replaced both heads and somehow manage to get it back together, which amazes me.

Everything feels good. I will take it on a trip tomorrow with no trailer. I have a gentle 2800 foot pass to go over, and it is a 150 mile trip. That should be a final test before we hook and tow once more on Friday. Gee whiz, I hope this is it this time.
Call me sceptical Mark, but I'm not liking the sound of this. How hard is it to change the t-stat in this thing ? I'd see of you can get a 180 degree stat in it ( maybe a motor-rad fail-safe ? ). I have a feeling if with no trailer you are already seeing 215, you're gonna be seeing the dreaded 230+....bells, chimes, etc on a long uphill hot day pull.
The dealer is of course going to say 215 is normal....but then he does not know you are strapping a 5500 pound trailer to the back.....
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:46 PM   #302
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Well what is the setpoint of the OEM thermostat? Unless you are really stressing it a 190 degree thermostat should be right there around 190 degrees. My scangage reads 190 when hot on both my fords. They read air temperature before starting up so I know the sensors are good. I would say anything more than 5 degrees above the setpoint is a problem. The question is what is the setpoint? You may need more cooling. On most cars the trans is cooled by the engine coolant.

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Old 03-05-2014, 07:54 PM   #303
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I have to believe that the thermostat temp is tied to the computer and to change it would cause even more problems! I ran EFI on a 1931 Ford Model A engine and the temp was critical to the overall performance.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:10 PM   #304
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You would be surprised at how hot Pentastars run. The Pentastar in the Jeep Wrangler consistently runs 220-230 just cruising around town. When the fan comes on it sounds like a locomotive. These engines were originally designed to run hotter for better emissions control, however with the integrated exhaust manifolds built into the heads the heat destroys the exhaust valves. There have been several revisions of the supposed "repaired" heads; I think they are on the "AC" designated ones now (I couldn't keep up with all the revisions). Now, however, the latest Chrysler fix for the Pentastar in the Wrangler has been to adjust the fan temps and to reduce the peak timing slightly. However, people are still having the heads replaced...

Bottom line, however...putting a lower temperature thermostat in these engines will throw all the electrical stuff off regarding the fan temps and such. And, the radiators in these vehicles are marginal at cooling at the temps they are designed to run at; so, even with a lower thermostat all this does is make the computer think the engine isn't up to designed operating temperature which keeps it in "open loop" mode longer while also basically running with the thermostat open most of the time just because the underhood and exhaust temps are so high on these vehicles. And, when a thermostat is opened longer, don't forget that the result is LESS time that coolant has to sit in the radiator and actually cool by airflow.

I learned on the SSR (which characteristically also run hotter because of the limited engine bay space and small radiator) that trying to "outsmart" the factory cooling system by lowering the thermostat is a losing situation for the reasons I listed above.

Running 220-230 in an engine designed for it is fine; the problem with the Pentastar is that the exhaust valves fail from the heat.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:30 PM   #305
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thanks for the follow on statements regarding thermostats from my above posting.
Perry asked what the setpoint is of the stat, and for sure that seems a good place to start the question process ( better than my blanket statement of simply going to a lower temp stat ).
For what it's worth, just as a data point that has zero relation to the car in question....on my Nissan, the scangage shows it routinely runs right in the middle of the thermostats specified range. It runs at 191 to 195 virtually all the time, although it will occasionally go over 200 especially if it's lugged. It is obvious from a heat standpoint anyway, it does not like to be lugged with the resulting added need for pedal. Downshift a gear, let it spin, and it cools back into the mid 190's.
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:12 PM   #306
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But when you open the hood, man oh man, it is jam packed in there....
I suggest if you are able to kill this motor before the warranty is up you try to pay the difference and upgrade to the Hemi. You know they manage to shoehorn 6.4s in those things somehow.
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:16 PM   #307
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Let's assume the car runs a tad hot by design. I think that pulling a trailer will require more cooling.

Perry
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:17 PM   #308
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If it were mine, I'd see if I couldn't find a bigger radiator for it. Maybe the one they use with the Hemi engine? There's obviously an engine cooling issue, and a bigger radiator is the best way to handle that.
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