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Old 02-28-2014, 10:28 PM   #267
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The need for torque amplification goes away when you have many gears and you can operate the engine near peak torque. Also the older transmissions had coolers that could remove enough heat from the fluid to keep it from boiling. A slipping clutch is the same thing. It also amplifies torque to get you rolling and then you can let off the clutch. Both a TC and a dry clutch use friction to amplify torque. The TC can slip indefinitely as long as you can remove the heat it produces.

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Originally Posted by dznf0g View Post
A torque converter is designed to multiply torque. When the TC is locked there is no torque multiplication. A locking torque converter is there ONLY to save fuel at cruising speeds under light torque demand. You WANT torque multiplication while towing much more of the time than when solo. If heat is a concern, due to high torque demand, consult someone for the proper cooling mods.
Remember, before the early 80's there were no locking converters, and we did fine....just wasted a lot of fuel.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:39 PM   #268
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A torque converter is designed to multiply torque. When the TC is locked there is no torque multiplication...
You are 100% correct. A college course in mechanical fluid dynamics actually goes thru the steps showing how its possible to input 100ftlbs of torque and output more torque (at a lower rpm), completely different from slipping a clutch where torque in equals torque out at a lower rpm plus a bunch of heat.
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:44 PM   #269
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The V6, the Hemi has 7200 or 7400 depending on 2wd or 4wd.

But remember, the Durango is marketed as a tow vehicle. But I digress to another towing thread.

Bill
6200 with the 3.6 (5spd) --but no difference between 2/4wd;
72/74 with the Hemi--6spd

This year, both have an 8 spd....no change in ratings.

I dug into the owner's manual, and its easy to miss, but there is the statement: vehicles not factory equipped with trailer tow package are limited to 3500lbs (350 tongue weight).

I was doing "build and price" on one of the models, and the tow package only shows that it includes a hitch and wiring harness, for 1000 bucks.

if you select a "lesser" model, and add the package--still 1000 bucks and it includes this:
  • 220-Amp Alternator
  • 7 and 4 Pin Wiring Harness
  • Class IV Receiver Hitch
  • Full Size Spare Tire
  • Heavy Duty Engine Cooling
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Old 02-28-2014, 10:49 PM   #270
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Remember, before the early 80's there were no locking converters, and we did fine....just wasted a lot of fuel.
I remember working at a car dealer in the 80's, and that was kind of a hot buzzword on the brochures: Lock-up Torque converter (ooooh! )
Now, they're just "torque converters".

Kind of like a COLOR tv. Then they were just TVs again for a while, and now we have HDTV. I'm sure at some point in the not too distant future, we'll have "TVs" again.
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:53 PM   #271
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not sure I understand about replacing the heads--if the problem was because of the design of the heads, and they're going to replace with the same thing...itsn't the problem just going to come back? Or do we not really know the root cause of the problem?
I've been browsing Durangos...most have the same 6, but a 5-speed trans. I wonder how different that is? The Hemi models have a 6 speed....starting 2014, they're both getting an 8. Would that be the same one you already have in the 300?
The new heads are a new design. The old had a design flaw.
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Old 03-01-2014, 02:38 AM   #272
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Data extracted from Consumer Reports Annual Auto Issue (April 2014), for Chrysler 300 (V6), "Used Car Verdict", by model year:

2002 = N/A
2003 = N/A
2004 = N/A
2005 = 3
2006 = 3
2007 = 3
2008 = 4
2009 = *
2010 = *
2011 = 3
2012 = 2
2013 = 3
New Car Prediction = 3

==========

Ratings:
5 = Much better than average
4 = Better than average
3 = Average
2 = Worse than average
1 = Much worse than average
* = Insufficient data
N/A = Model wasn't made that year
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Old 03-01-2014, 06:42 AM   #273
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Jeff,

Really didn't read it as if you were recommending the practice, but sometimes folks can miss read or miss remember what they read. And thinking about it, the engine is the source of all of the torque and RPM if you allow it to slip, then you are reducing the Torque and RPM going into the trans and that wasted energy becomes heat from the induced slipping. Advice for a manual trans tow vehicle, if you need power to hold a hill, downshift to better match road speed to the engine and just take it easy going up that big hill.

The hard part would be trying to explain the Lockup Piston inside a torque converter. Did you know they have friction material on the engine side and a torsion damper built in to it too? At least the ones I saw taken apart.

mstephens,

Any chance to get a pic of the old head?

Gary
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:15 AM   #274
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The need for torque amplification goes away when you have many gears and you can operate the engine near peak torque. Also the older transmissions had coolers that could remove enough heat from the fluid to keep it from boiling. A slipping clutch is the same thing. It also amplifies torque to get you rolling and then you can let off the clutch. Both a TC and a dry clutch use friction to amplify torque. The TC can slip indefinitely as long as you can remove the heat it produces.

Perry
Not true, Perry, with all due respect. But I would suggest another thread to discuss automatics,torque converters, multiple gears and engine design and output, if we want to explore that.
I know that (at least I think I read a comment in the past) you, and others believe a stick is better for towing, but it's not, actually....assuming a robust design for high load application.
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:17 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
I remember working at a car dealer in the 80's, and that was kind of a hot buzzword on the brochures: Lock-up Torque converter (ooooh! )
Now, they're just "torque converters".

Kind of like a COLOR tv. Then they were just TVs again for a while, and now we have HDTV. I'm sure at some point in the not too distant future, we'll have "TVs" again.
Perfect example of technology not being in place for a desired outcome. Locking torque converters have never gone away....just been pretty much perfected....by electronics mostly.
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:35 AM   #276
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How a TC works.

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/AT02.pdf

Perry
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:44 AM   #277
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So, after reading, I don't see where the confusion lies.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:09 AM   #278
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.....snip.....
I know that (at least I think I read a comment in the past) you, and others believe a stick is better for towing, but it's not, actually....assuming a robust design for high load application.
...all those eaton/fuller roadrangers.....so little time

...please note the smiley ! not trying to pick a fight.... !
( I'm one of those "others", most likely.... )
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:17 AM   #279
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...all those eaton/fuller roadrangers.....so little time

...please note the smiley ! not trying to pick a fight.... !
( I'm one of those "others", most likely.... )
I know. Initial cost of stick vs. auto (think Allison), PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED drivers, multi-speed axles, etc. come into play there. However, the trend is working it's way up to big tractors to equip with autos. Heard an ad on the radio the other day for recruiting drivers. They touted AUTOMATICS.

My fleets can't find drivers who can drive sticks anymore, without eating clutches...and worse.
The trend is no more sticks in PUs, and it's working it's way well through the mediums, and starting in the semi tractors. I'd bet, within 10 years, there will be no more 18 wheelers produced with sticks. Fuel economy is driving that as well as driver comfort/ability.

Again, I suggest another thread.
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Old 03-01-2014, 08:33 AM   #280
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Jeff,

mstephens,

Any chance to get a pic of the old head?

Gary
No. They don't let anyone in the back. And, I have already had so many tussles with the SM, that they wouldn't be doing me any favors.
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