Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-07-2007, 01:09 PM   #15
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
A number of us know the can am folks and their offierings all too well.....

Few on this forum (read not all) agree with what they do.
__________________

__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 01:26 PM   #16
4 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Two Harbors , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
A number of us know the can am folks and their offierings all too well.....

Few on this forum (read not all) agree with what they do.
Hi Silver...can't quite get your direction. I knew before I posted that many/most would dismiss what they do a pure folly...but after I spoke with them and from the above posts by a couple of their happy customers...I am still curious.

What is your opinion?

...is there "some" truth in what they (CanamRV) say? If you go to a stonger TV hitch, higher load rated tires than stock, use a Hensley hitch, increase cooling capacity (transmission and oil if required)...does that not effectively increase your "true" towing capacity...and probably your GVWR. I DON'T mean the "legal" GVWR...but the "actual" capacity of the TV to tow??? I do know that your horsepower does not change and you would be a bit slower up hills than say a Durmax/Allsion.

BTW...I read all of the Corrosion thread and agree that is a major question when shopping for an AS.

Thanks...Tom R
__________________

__________________
TomR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 01:39 PM   #17
Rivet Master<br><img src="/ugala/forums/images/5rivet.gif">
 
CanoeStream's Avatar

 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,279
Images: 19
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomR
2)Either replace or significantly increase the strength of the LC hitch...seems like a knowledgeable hitch vendor could certainly install/weld a stronger hitch that also distibutes weight across the frame.

3) Hensley hitch...all the advantages available.

4) Increase transmission cooling.

5) Only buy AS w/disc brakes...or have added.

6) "Best" brake controller...whatever that may be.
The above details are not out of the ordinary. They are what is needed in any good setup. I would agree the Hensley comes closer to a necessity with the longer, heavier trailer being considered. The trailer brakes must always stop the trailer regardless of the TV. Drum brakes will do this just as well but are subject to fade. Disc brakes are better for various reasons but don't remove normal towing dynamics.

A Hensley and LP in the tanks will add principally to the tongue weight of any Airstream. It is fair to say a ready-to-camp 30' or 34' tongue weight is going to be 250-350 pounds above the published empty tongue weight.

Would you be intending to run the Land Cruiser above its rated payload? How about above the Land Cruiser's tow capacity? 20" wheels alone will not let you do this.
__________________
Bob

5 meter Langford Nahanni

CanoeStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 01:58 PM   #18
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomR
I asked about stopping...they said with the 6 disc brakes on the 34' there is plenty of stopping power. They did say it would not win any races...but would be just fine.
Tom, if you talk to them again, ask them about most states' laws requiring the tow vehicle being able to safely stop the trailer without using the trailer's brakes.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 02:00 PM   #19
4 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Two Harbors , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanoeStream
Would you be intending to run the Land Cruiser above its rated payload? How about above the Land Cruiser's tow capacity? 20" wheels alone will not let you do this. Wanna see your insurance agent's eyebrows raise? Explain it to them.
Hi Bob...my exercise is somewhat theorhetical (sp). My question has more to do with the "practical" or "actual" capacities of a vehicle...in this case my LC...versus the "legal" ratings. I understand that nothing you do changes the legal capacities..at least I don't think it does.

Toward your point...is your insurance invalid if you exceed your weight ratings? I will guess is not (invalid)? Similar to if you speed or drink...your insurance rep sure doesn't like that but I don't think it makes your coverage invalid???

Another question is from a safety standpoint...what contributes to your vehicles weight ratings? Tires, suspension, TV hitch, engine power, wheelbase?, transmission and other drivetrain component limitations?

I would guess that you could effectively increase the practical/actual weight "capacities"...both tow and GVWR...by changing the items we have been discussing...don't you think?

BTW...I agree that with my LC this discussion starts to potentially have real meaning if I were to drop down to a 27-30 foot AS. At least it is closer to a valid discussion as you lower the trailer weight.

Also, remember, I am an accountant...I always leave lots of room for error! I have already decided that I would use a Hensley even if I were towing a 16' Bambi with a 1 ton Duramax/Allison

Still seesm like there is a bit more to this general question than often gets "aired" on the many discussion here...maybe?? Thanks...Tom R

BTW...there is a 1990 34' at the AS Park...looks like it is in real good shape with lots of work done over the last 2-3 years. $19K...maybe a bit high...but if it is as nice as the pictures looked in the classified it may be worth that...or close to that. May need axels as it has sat most of last 2-3 years. The owner pulled his add...kind of grumpy. TMR
__________________
TomR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 02:13 PM   #20
Rivet Master
 
Big Dee's Avatar
 
2004 30' Classic
San Jose , California
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,664
Images: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomR
Remember, I am not saying this is the BEST choice...only questioning wether "the Forum" is just a bit conservative?
Just a bit conservative around here? hahahaha it's a lot more than a "bit". The advice around seems to be always get the most massive diesel available. There are many misconceptions being perpetuated out there. I have had many arguments with Forum members over the suitability of a GMC 1500HD as a TV for a 30' Classic. They would say it would never work, only a 2500 would barely do. Well after over 25,000 miles including the Rockies and Death Valley, it's a fantastic TV. And I mean fantastic!
__________________
"It's the journey."

NorCal Fall Rally, Jackson Rancheria, October 7-9 2011 Click here for more info

Come rally with us.
Big Dee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 02:20 PM   #21
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
I'm of the believe that most of what they do is not recommended.

IMHO there are 2 types of of folks with trailers:

Those that move trailers

Those that tow trailers

Almost anything can be moved. Almost anything can be stopped. Towing however, is an entirely different beast.

The real questions are:

How well can you control it when you move it?
How well you can stop it when you need to?

Again, just my opinion having towed several trailers over the past 14 years. Been a mover and became a tower.

In most cases, Can Am's solutions are that of movers. I know some might not agree, but having moved then towed, one gets to know the difference...and if they don't, they are more times than not a statistic.

Even the best setups can't protect against every dangerous situation that can go beyond anyone's control. Even big Semis, who you'd think have all the power, weight and control also fall prey to the unexpected. Most of the situations Can Am puts out are less than optimal to start.

My feeling is that if you care to spend the money on a trailer, and particularly a big ticket item like an Airstream, why skimp on the tow vehicle and tow with something that in most cases with the Can AM solution are grossly underrated to start?
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 02:46 PM   #22
4 Rivet Member
 
1975 27' Overlander
High River , Alberta
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 393
Strengthening the receiver is mainly about reinforcing it/addiing additional attachment points to take any flex out of it when the WDH is employed.

Low profile 20" tires are likely to have a lower load capacity than 16 or 17" LTs. What matters is having enough to carry your vehicle's gross weight, plus a comfortable margin.

You can't increase GVWR, but legality varies. Some jurisdictions enforce this, but most don't. In any event, effective payload capacities vary widely, and so do needs. A car may be fine for a couple or a small family that carries very little stuff in the car. Minivans often have greater payload capacities (1500 lbs or more) than light trucks. Unlike GVWR, which is established through a legally defined process, Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR) is a manufacturer's number that seems to be based largely on first gear hill climbing performance and warranty considerations.

Where performance is concerned, my (calculated) guess is that a Chrysler 300C will outpull just about anything short of a Duramax. Most small block pickups perform on par with a V6 sedan. The smaller engine will generally run faster, but get the job done rather efficiently. Gearing choices and total combined weight are major factors. Airstreams do particularly well behind well-chosen cars because of aerodynamics, a low centre of gravity, and neutral handling. That's not from some Airstream advertising copy, that's my opinion based on personal experience.

I think most insurers wouldn't bat an eye because they don't know any more about towing than the general public. And you're covered when you pay the premium. They can only decline to renew after a loss if they believe that towing "overweight" resulted in a claim.
__________________
AlbertF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 02:47 PM   #23
2 Rivet Member
 
gotohatteras's Avatar
 
2006 23' Safari SE
Avon , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 63
You know...I'm confused now. When we had a 36 ft MH travelling in Canada, we had to have a "Brake Buddy" or some other type of auxiliary brake system for the "toad". Since we needed that, per Canadaian requlations...and could have been fined heavily if checked and didn't have one...where can they get off saying it's alright for their own citizens to tow campers with less than adequate tow vehicles? "Confused in the USA"...
__________________
DW always tells me to "take the high road"...

2006 23' Safari
2007 F350 Lariat Crew 4X4 PSD
AIR# 21875
WBCCI# 3778
Region 3, Unit 144 (Eastern North Carolina)
gotohatteras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 02:53 PM   #24
4 Rivet Member
 
1975 27' Overlander
High River , Alberta
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotohatteras
You know...I'm confused now. When we had a 36 ft MH travelling in Canada, we had to have a "Brake Buddy" or some other type of auxiliary brake system for the "toad". Since we needed that, per Canadaian requlations...and could have been fined heavily if checked and didn't have one...where can they get off saying it's alright for their own citizens to tow campers with less than adequate tow vehicles? "Confused in the USA"...
Your toad no doubt exceeded 3,000 lbs, which is the typical limit for towing a trailer without trailer brakes. (I often smile when I see cargo and utility trailers with 3500 lb axles and GVWRs of 2990 lbs - all about not putting brakes on those axles!)
__________________
AlbertF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 03:00 PM   #25
Aluminut
 
Silvertwinkie's Avatar
 
2004 25' Safari
. , Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,334
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbertF
Where performance is concerned, my (calculated) guess is that a Chrysler 300C will outpull just about anything short of a Duramax. Most small block pickups perform on par with a V6 sedan. The smaller engine will generally run faster, but get the job done rather efficiently. Gearing choices and total combined weight are major factors. Airstreams do particularly well behind well-chosen cars because of aerodynamics, a low centre of gravity, and neutral handling. That's not from some Airstream advertising copy, that's my opinion based on personal experience.

I think most insurers wouldn't bat an eye because they don't know any more about towing than the general public. And you're covered when you pay the premium. They can only decline to renew after a loss if they believe that towing "overweight" resulted in a claim.
Albert, with all due respect, I think you are way off here. First of all the 300c is nowhere near the geographic ballpark in which you compare it. Though others might not agree, there is no way I'd agree that the overall drivetrains that are put into pickups (which I extrapolated from your Duramax comparision) are less or equal to that of a V6 passenger car, namely the 300.

It goes so much farther than engine, power, etc. I'm not suggesting that one needs a Mack truck to tow a Bambi.

The one area I fully agree is that in my many conversations with insurers, you are right on, most said they would pay a claim, even due to a person's stupidity, and would promptly drop them.

One insurer flat out told me that if the cause of the carnage was due to negligence or not following best practices (by towing a 9000lb RV) with a vehicle that clearly is rated significantly under the GVWR of the trailer, there could be complications and frankly, time and money would be on the insurers side. Would they prevail in court, most likely not, but tell that to any victims of a wreck that have medical bills, etc.

Bottom line, it all boils down to if you are a mover or a tower.

Choices, you gotta love 'em.
__________________
Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq and millions of others are by far the most popular with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh fans note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form. -NY Times 11/91
Silvertwinkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 03:34 PM   #26
4 Rivet Member
 
1975 27' Overlander
High River , Alberta
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Almost anything can be moved. Almost anything can be stopped. Towing however, is an entirely different beast.

The real questions are:

How well can you control it when you move it?
How well you can stop it when you need to?

My feeling is that if you care to spend the money on a trailer, and particularly a big ticket item like an Airstream, why skimp on the tow vehicle and tow with something that in most cases with the Can AM solution are grossly underrated to start?
I think you have to drive a combination to assess its stabilty and controllability.

Many cars have brakes that are virtually as big as pickup truck brakes, with a lot less weight to stop. The biggest difference in specifications is often rotor thickness, which may be related to heat resistance, or maybe being able to machine the rotors when replacing pads.

Some people simply prefer to drive cars rather than trucks, especially if the tow vehicle must double as a daily driver.
__________________
AlbertF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 03:42 PM   #27
3 Rivet Member
 
gowyn's Avatar
 
2007 27' Safari FB SE
London , ontario
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 174
I'll weigh in here.

I deal with Canamrv and am familiar with their ethos.

I did tow my 07 27FBSE with my 1990 Toyota Landcruiser diesel. It did ok but I decided to get a Dmax instead. Why, well mainly because of the uniqueness and age of the Toyota. It towed the trailer fine with BIG 33" tires and a 2.5" lift. If I felt more comfortable driving around Stateside with the Toyota I'd still have it.

On the other hand, I LOVE my DMax with Hensley. Pulls the trailer easily without any need to worry. Much less stressful driving.

I'd recommend stay with the Toyota until you're ready to move up to a bigger vehicle IF you really feel the need.

When shopping for the truck I considered a Dodge Magnum hemi, tons of power, everything Andy at Canam rcommends, but in my heart I'm a truck man.
__________________
gowyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2007, 03:52 PM   #28
4 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Two Harbors , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by gowyn
I'll weigh in here.

I deal with Canamrv and am familiar with their ethos.

I did tow my 07 27FBSE with my 1990 Toyota Landcruiser diesel. It did ok but I decided to get a Dmax instead. Why, well mainly because of the uniqueness and age of the Toyota. It towed the trailer fine with BIG 33" tires and a 2.5" lift. If I felt more comfortable driving around Stateside with the Toyota I'd still have it.

On the other hand, I LOVE my DMax with Hensley. Pulls the trailer easily without any need to worry. Much less stressful driving.

I'd recommend stay with the Toyota until you're ready to move up to a bigger vehicle IF you really feel the need.
I have to admit...I am a real Duramax/Allison fan...one day I will have one.

I think the 2004 LC with the V-8 may be a bit better TV than the 1990 version. Also, I am not sure the big tires and lift are not really an advantage when towing...Canam suggested getting lower profile tires to both improve power and reduce sidewall deflection due to the large sidewalls on the bigger diameter tires.

I agree that I could use the LC for awhile...until I justify my 3500 Duramax! Tom R
__________________

__________________
TomR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
need help from the weight police wasafari Tow Vehicles 4 04-22-2007 03:52 PM
Attention Moderators SmokelessJoe Forum Admin, News and Member Account Info 8 02-28-2007 12:04 PM
Attention in France!!! Melody Ranch Off Topic Forum 7 02-25-2007 02:55 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.