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Old 01-21-2004, 06:20 PM   #43
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Big Dee, even with a non-Slide 30, you're at
the max of the Denali, even if you put nothing
more in it than you had when you weighed it.

And I'm saying this without knowing what your
axle weights were.

Code:
Situation with full 30 non-slide:

GCWR 16000 minus 30' AS GVWR 8700 = 7300 max 
truck weight for GCWR (only 100 lb reserve on GCWR)

GVWR 7200 minus Scale Total 6120 = 1080 reserve
for cargo, hitch and tongue weight

minus 870 (10% tongue) minus 200 Hensley

leaves 10 pounds for cargo in Denali

GAWR Front 3925 minus Scale Steer ____ = ____

GAWR Rear  4000 minus Scale Drive ____ better = 
close to 1080 if you expect to use all the Denali's GVWR

Situation with 970 lbs in 30 non-slide:

GCWR 16000 minus 8200 AS weight = 7800 max
truck weight for GCWR (only 600 lb reserve on GCWR)

GVWR 7200 minus Scale Total 6120 = 1080 reserve
for cargo, hitch and tongue weight

minus 820 (10% tongue) minus 200 Hensley

leaves 60 for cargo in Denali


As you can see, to pick up 10 lbs of cargo in
the Denali, you have to drop 100 lbs of trailer 
weight with a 10% hitch weight.
It should be occuring to you now that the Safari line was made for 1/2-ton trucks like the Denali.

Using a conventional hitch and sway control will let you pick up about 100 lbs for cargo in the Denali, but then you're pulling a big heavy trailer with a maxxed out truck without a Hensley.
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Old 01-21-2004, 06:47 PM   #44
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Maurice,

Looking at my weights, would you say that my truck is not enough for what I am pulling?

Josh
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Old 01-21-2004, 06:59 PM   #45
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Maurice,

Some questions and comments.

First, this discussion is important as this is a little understood topic. RV and truck salespeople are profoundly ignorant of these issues; one suspects deliberately so. I have looked into it at some length, and there are still areas I do do not understand (more on that anon).

Second, one possible solution is not to use the Hensley. A Dual Cam must be about 100 lbs., saving 100 lbs. right where it is needed most. Another is to get a better handle on the coach payload. You assume either a maximum allowable payload, or one of 970 lbs. (was this number picked for a reason?).

But to my question: We all know that the equalizing bars shift weight on to the tow vehicle front axle. Do the equalizing bars shift any of the tongue weight BACK onto the coach axles? Please, no guessing here, does anyone actually KNOW?

Thanks,

Mark
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Old 01-21-2004, 07:14 PM   #46
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Maurice,
First, I have to say I feel lucky to get this free consultation and education before you turn professional and start charging for your knowledge!

Second, you keep "raining on my parade!" I know it's close but I REALLY want a 30' Classic and want to keep my truck.

That tongue weight is a killer. I really don't want the Hensley if a dual cam will work. (I am really at ease hooking a normal WD hitch + weight savings)

I am counting on the 31' coming in at 500# over UBW. Wishful thinking? I will weigh on the way out from the dealer to see.

PS: I failed to follow your directions in getting the axles lined up on the scale so the scale only gave me a total weight. But I am learning! Please be patient with us novices...
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Old 01-21-2004, 07:15 PM   #47
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Josh, I didn't look at your numbers because of your lighter trailer and 8600 lb GVWR. But I will.

Mark, I just knocked 500 lbs off the max loaded weight, which is total of the water weight in the trailer. Yeah, I knocked off the water in the water heater too, but 500 is a round number.

YES, tightening the weight distributing bars moves tongue weight back to the trailer axles. I've seen people's scale weights before and after tightening the bars. How much it does is too complex for me to calculate. But you're right, he may pick up 100 lbs or more for cargo after tightening the bars. I tend to ignore that, since static tongue weight is often not as low as 10% anyway. Many people shoot for 10% on the axles, not just static.
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Old 01-21-2004, 07:26 PM   #48
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Big Dee, let me offer both hope and caution.

The hope is that, if Maurice is right that perhaps 100 lbs will shift back onto the coach axles, it seems to me that with a Dual Cam hitch and conservative loading of your truck, you may end up with, well, lets just say a not unreasonable load.

The caution is the coach weight. You simply will not know what it weighs until it is put on a scale. Up to then it is all guesses, educated guesses, but guesses none the less.

I need to weigh mine. Oh, there is no way I am carrying 500 lbs. of stuff, but what about the laminate floor I put in? What about the oak cabinetry I installed in place of the tambour doors?. And on and on.

Mark
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Old 01-21-2004, 07:32 PM   #49
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I am still on the fence with the Hensley. Again, the problems with uneven ground hook ups scare me. And saving that weight would be nice. Plus the cost.

Question: Should I ignore my above worries and go with the Hensley or will a dual cam work out fine?
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Old 01-21-2004, 07:36 PM   #50
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Big Dee, I've just seen too many people try to cut it close and wind up over. I have no record of Airstreams, but many trailers wind up considerably heavier than the rating.

Keeping the trailer weight to 7230+500=7730 SHOULD get you up to 100 lbs of cargo in the Denali.

What fun is it going to be if you're gonna have to be worrying about how much you have in the trailer?

I'd rethink that water too. I never imagined I'd be boondocking with a 34' but that's most of what we've done so far. To me, the trailer rides and handles better full of water. I like it that if the water in a campground looks or smells funny, I have the option not to put it in my plumbing, even if I'm not drinking it. If you want to pay the high price in campground stores for bottled water for drinking, cooking, and brushing teeth, etc, that's okay, but otherwise you have to carry it with you, whether in bottles or in your tank.

If you're coming home from boondocking, or for other reasons can't dump before hitting the road, keep in mind you can have up to 700 lbs in the black and grey tanks.

And when trying to cut tongue weight to the minimum percentage, remember that the grey and black tanks are to the rear and lighten tongue weight, which can result in sway.

You know what they say about best-laid plans.

You know I recommend the Hensley.
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Old 01-21-2004, 07:44 PM   #51
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Big Dee,

Maurice has a point about water weight, but you should know from your own experience if that is an issue or not.

As for the Hensley, no one is going to take that responsibility off your shoulders. There are an awful lot of very satisfied Dual Cam owners out there towing far more unweildly coaches than your 30' Airstream. But....

The only Airstream with slide out I have actually seen up close was a brand new 34' SO. It was in a salvage yard. It had been towed so little that the paper stickers on the tire treads were still legible. The new owners rolled it almost in sight of the dealer.

What was their hitch? No idea. But sway happens.

Mark
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Old 01-21-2004, 07:52 PM   #52
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Maurice,
You sure know how to keep me thinking. I guess I just "want my cake and eat it too."
You have really made aware of my weight. I will be weighing my rig every chance i get when on the road. I now will always want to know what the load is.
Do you measure the tongue load by unhitching the trailer and putting just the jack on the scale, then driving the truck off? Would the level/angle of the trailer on the jack effect the weight? Do the scale people mind if that while hooking and unhooking, you are blocking the scale for awhile?
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Old 01-21-2004, 07:54 PM   #53
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Mark,
Please- No scary posts like that last one. I am worried enough...
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Old 01-21-2004, 08:00 PM   #54
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I am not a boondocker as I am addicted to electricity! So I can not remeber a time when I had all the tanks full. I travel with about 20 gallons of fresh water and never never with full waste tanks (maybe half) but I guess there is that first time.
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Old 01-21-2004, 08:14 PM   #55
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That's why I have 2 Honda EU2000 generators.
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Old 01-21-2004, 08:21 PM   #56
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Josh,

Code:
6375 actual truck weight
+100 hitch
+730 10% tongue weight
----
7205 out of 8600
GVWR not a problem

 6375 actual truck weight
+ 100 hitch
+7300 max trailer weight
----
13775 out of 14,000
225 left for generator, gas,
patio rug, etc, etc, etc in 
the truck bed.
With an empty trailer, you're at 87% of GCWR and with it loaded to the max, you'd be right at 100% with no margin for the mountains. Since you're single and don't put much in it, you're right when you said you wouldn't want to tow a pound more in the hills.
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