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Old 11-23-2013, 06:58 PM   #169
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I don't remember ever reading a post from anyone who had a vehicle and trailer set up by CanAm, and then didn't like it.
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:04 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by MrUKToad View Post
Name me another RV shop that has spent so much time and money researching and applying towing solutions over the past forty years. Name me another RV shop with as much accumulated data spanning so many vehicles and so many trailers.

I know you don't buy into the way Can Am operates, Rostam; that's your view and you're absolutely entitled to it. But do you ever hear of these tow vehicle setups that fall outside of the manufacturers ratings ending up as wrecks as a result? Do you hear about legal and liability issues associated with them? Do you hear about the tow vehicles expiring in a pall of oily smoke at the side of the road? Surely if things were so wrong then these events would be a common occurrence, but they're not, so they must be doing something right.

How about looking beyond the published figures and see what happens in the real world, on the road? There's a great article in the Winter edition of Airstream Life as well as an excellent podcast on the VAP website, both of which should offer much food for thought.
Car manufacturers, Airstream, hitch companies and numerous RV shops have orders of magnitude more expertise in towing than CanAm -- They all disagree with CanAm recommendations.

What I see in the real world, on the road, is that the overwhelming majority of people tow with pickups and large SUVs. Some, with smaller trailers, tow with medium/compact SUVs. In real world most people use a TV that is designed to do the job.
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:08 PM   #171
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Car manufacturers, Airstream, hitch companies and numerous RV shops have orders of magnitude more expertise in towing than CanAm -- They all disagree with CanAm recommendations.
Oh come on. You know that's just conjecture of the worst kind.

Given that CanAm is an advisor to Airstream for towing related issues, I suspect that your post would came as somewhat of a surprise to both of them.
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:36 PM   #172
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Car manufacturers, Airstream, hitch companies and numerous RV shops have orders of magnitude more expertise in towing than CanAm -- They all disagree with CanAm recommendations.
Just how many people/companies are you speaking for?!

Can you show any proof for what you're asserting (especially the sentence I've put in bold)?
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:51 PM   #173
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Oh jeepers, I wonder if I've done the right thing. Let me see! My 1993 Jeep is turning into a rust bucket in my driveway but I guess it is about time since it has 495,000 k on it. My 2000 Jeep is in impeccable condition, but then it only has 228,000 k on it. My 2003 Jeep has 495,000 k on it but now only tows a Globetrotter. My 2008 Jeep just had to have a rear main engine seal replaced and it only has 328,000 k on it. Must be because it has towed the 30' Signature 40,000 k over the past 2 years, and that' must be hard on it. Collectively, these Jeeps have towed my old 25' Safari and the new 30' Signature about 350,000 k. And now I am afraid they were not supposed to do the job. What about the new one that's coming in 10 weeks? Can it do the job? Jeepers! I wonder if I've done the right thing?
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Old 11-23-2013, 10:17 PM   #174
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We all have the opportunity to make choices. The catch is living with the consequences whether they be good or not so good.

During my life experiences, I learned about things I might like to do again and things I want to avoid.

One day, I towed my son's 76 Pontiac Bonneville with a U-Haul car carrier hooked to a 1988 Ford Ranger. I found out one side of the trailer's brakes were inoperative when we jack knifed going down a long hill. Upon reflection, the car and trailer weighed more than the Ranger did and there was basically no weight in the bed of the pickup.

When I found out my 2007 Mercedes ML 320 CDI diesel had inadequate axle and GVW ratings and tow rating capacity to tow our camping ready 2013 25FB International Serenity with it's 1,200 pound tongue weight, I decided to acquire a more robust tow vehicle with adequate tow ratings in all parameters.

I had towed a 7,500 pound dual axle cargo trailer through the mountains with my GMC Duramax diesel pickup years earlier and appreciated both they power going up the mountain and the engine breaking coming down the mountain.

I decided that I would select a suitable diesel pickup setup to safely handle the weights and payloads I was contemplating. There were no 1/2 ton diesel pickups and a fully equipped King Ranch Eco-Boost Ford barely had enough payload for the tongue weight of the trailer let alone two people, two generators, gasoline and spare propane tanks and extra water, etc.

By elimination, I was looking at the 3/4 ton truck world and I had a family history and working knowledge of the Cummins brand diesel engines. I ended up with my 2012 Dodge Ram 2500HD diesel pickup and I was not disappointed in my decision after the first trip with our 2013 25FB International Serenity. I know from experience with the scales that it's specifications and real world numbers are adequate for our ordered 2014 Classic 30 Airstream.

YMMV
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Old 11-24-2013, 06:48 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by switz View Post
We all have the opportunity to make choices. The catch is living with the consequences whether they be good or not so good.

During my life experiences, I learned about things I might like to do again and things I want to avoid.

One day, I towed my son's 76 Pontiac Bonneville with a U-Haul car carrier hooked to a 1988 Ford Ranger. I found out one side of the trailer's brakes were inoperative when we jack knifed going down a long hill. Upon reflection, the car and trailer weighed more than the Ranger did and there was basically no weight in the bed of the pickup.

When I found out my 2007 Mercedes ML 320 CDI diesel had inadequate axle and GVW ratings and tow rating capacity to tow our camping ready 2013 25FB International Serenity with it's 1,200 pound tongue weight, I decided to acquire a more robust tow vehicle with adequate tow ratings in all parameters.

I had towed a 7,500 pound dual axle cargo trailer through the mountains with my GMC Duramax diesel pickup years earlier and appreciated both they power going up the mountain and the engine breaking coming down the mountain.

I decided that I would select a suitable diesel pickup setup to safely handle the weights and payloads I was contemplating. There were no 1/2 ton diesel pickups and a fully equipped King Ranch Eco-Boost Ford barely had enough payload for the tongue weight of the trailer let alone two people, two generators, gasoline and spare propane tanks and extra water, etc.

By elimination, I was looking at the 3/4 ton truck world and I had a family history and working knowledge of the Cummins brand diesel engines. I ended up with my 2012 Dodge Ram 2500HD diesel pickup and I was not disappointed in my decision after the first trip with our 2013 25FB International Serenity. I know from experience with the scales that it's specifications and real world numbers are adequate for our ordered 2014 Classic 30 Airstream.

YMMV
Always appreciate your thoughtful and well thought out posts

One thing I like to point out is that above you're using "tow rating" and "payload" almost interchangeably. I'd like to respectfully suggest that this might have the potential to further the confusion that appears to exist around these two terms.

You decision to go big seems to me almost 100% based on payload concerns, not published tow rating. If you're travelling heavy, with spare gas, propane etc, then you need a vehicle that's designed to carry heavy loads. Somebody who travels lighter, or with a trailer with lighter tongue weight does not need that capacity.

The confusion is of course not helped by the common misconception that longer trailers are automatically heavier on the tongue.
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:19 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post

During my life experiences, I learned about things I might like to do again and things I want to avoid.

One day, I towed my son's 76 Pontiac Bonneville with a U-Haul car carrier hooked to a 1988 Ford Ranger. I found out one side of the trailer's brakes were inoperative when we jack knifed going down a long hill. Upon reflection, the car and trailer weighed more than the Ranger did and there was basically no weight in the bed of the pickup.YMMV
Wow, been there and done it. Back in the 70's I borrowed my Dad's 1972 Ford LTD. It had the tow pkg and was set up for towing his TT. I had to pick up a 1967 Dodge Dart with a car hauler. It was a horrible experience. No trailer brakes, no WDH, no balance. When the set up is wrong, it's all bad.

In contrast his LTD towed his TT just fine. Our G35 tows out 23' Airstream just fine. Set them up right and all is well.
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Old 11-25-2013, 10:27 AM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
We all have the opportunity to make choices. The catch is living with the consequences whether they be good or not so good.

During my life experiences, I learned about things I might like to do again and things I want to avoid.

One day, I towed my son's 76 Pontiac Bonneville with a U-Haul car carrier hooked to a 1988 Ford Ranger. I found out one side of the trailer's brakes were inoperative when we jack knifed going down a long hill. Upon reflection, the car and trailer weighed more than the Ranger did and there was basically no weight in the bed of the pickup.

When I found out my 2007 Mercedes ML 320 CDI diesel had inadequate axle and GVW ratings and tow rating capacity to tow our camping ready 2013 25FB International Serenity with it's 1,200 pound tongue weight, I decided to acquire a more robust tow vehicle with adequate tow ratings in all parameters.

I had towed a 7,500 pound dual axle cargo trailer through the mountains with my GMC Duramax diesel pickup years earlier and appreciated both they power going up the mountain and the engine breaking coming down the mountain.

I decided that I would select a suitable diesel pickup setup to safely handle the weights and payloads I was contemplating. There were no 1/2 ton diesel pickups and a fully equipped King Ranch Eco-Boost Ford barely had enough payload for the tongue weight of the trailer let alone two people, two generators, gasoline and spare propane tanks and extra water, etc.

By elimination, I was looking at the 3/4 ton truck world and I had a family history and working knowledge of the Cummins brand diesel engines. I ended up with my 2012 Dodge Ram 2500HD diesel pickup and I was not disappointed in my decision after the first trip with our 2013 25FB International Serenity. I know from experience with the scales that it's specifications and real world numbers are adequate for our ordered 2014 Classic 30 Airstream.

YMMV
The major mistake with the Ford Ranger/Car trailer combination was not checking that the trailer brakes were operational. I suspect the Ranger was not up to the task even with trailer brakes, but additional towing capacity does not make up for unsafe equipment. I wouldn't have towed that trailer with a Peterbilt!

I also know for a fact that many vehicles, including the Ranger have had vast improvements in handling, braking, and engine power since 1988.

Everyone needs to evaluate their own personal needs and decide what is right for them. Blanket statements such as "an SUV can't tow an Airstream" not useful.
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:31 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by DavidsonOverlander View Post
I don't remember ever reading a post from anyone who had a vehicle and trailer set up by CanAm, and then didn't like it.
Indeed, I've run into a few Can-Am RV customers that traded-up their V6 TV's for V8's because they wanted more power or to haul more stuff but so far nobody's indicated to me they upgraded out of safety or handling concerns. Around here Can-Am RV is well known and widely respected -- most local car dealers will recommend Can-AM to any customer who wants to tow anything more than a utility trailer. After 40 years in business you'd think they'd have at least some unsatisfied customers and statistically speaking there has to be a few, but I'm still looking.
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:06 PM   #179
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Yes, I am new. Since you have been involved in this for long, could you please name another RV shop that advises towing a 7000# trailer with a modified minivan rated at 3500?
It would be nice to have an easy answer to that question you have asked before, but it is not the only way to get information on Can-Am's work. One approach is that suggested by Garfield just aboveóno complaints known after 40 years. This is not the first time this has been debated and another Forum member on another thread mentioned there were no known lawsuits.

You don't need to 2 or more shops to prove the point that you can modify a vehicle to substantially change its characteristics. There are many reasons shops don't modify tow vehicles. One is RV shops do not generally work on tow vehicles. If I wanted to increase tow capability, I'd go to a spring or suspension shop. They do vehicle modifications all the time for all sorts of reasons, but it is unlikely they would report this to us here.

Your assertions in # 171 have been well answered in subsequent posts. But I will add that you see lots of big pickups and SUV's towing trailers because you also see lots of big pickups and SUV's driving around because Americans like big vehicles.

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Old 11-29-2013, 07:57 PM   #180
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The old rules about towing do not hold as much water as they used to. CanAm has proven that there are other factors at work that are overlooked by those who do not have their experience in towing and in setting up tow vehicles and trailers

1) Independent rear suspension is an advantage

2) Short rear overhang. Anything that reduces the distance between the rear axle centerline and hitch ball is to the good.

3) Low profile tires add stability and effectively lower your gear ratio.

4) Transmission cooler for obvious reasons

5) A really good, rigid hitch receiver. They prefer to make their own. Strong enough to tow a dump truck up the Rocky Mountains.

6) Top quality hitch, selected to match the tow vehicle and trailer.

7)Airstream trailer for best suspension, weight distribution, handling, and aerodynamic performance.

8) Careful setup for perfect balance on all wheels of tow vehicle and trailer, trailer level, correct tongue weight etc.

This is the formula as I have been able to glean it from their public writing. Go to Youtube and you will find some videos demonstrating their rigs in action. You will be impressed.

Jaguar, Chrysler 300 and Ford Windstar towing 34 foot Airstream.

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Old 11-30-2013, 06:53 AM   #181
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So the original question was, Can you tow an AS with a Ford Flex? I guess tha answer is yes. At 45 mph on flat, level controlled condition. If you look hard enough, you can find info to justify anything. It only took 13 pages of blog to do it. Congratulations.
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Old 11-30-2013, 08:27 AM   #182
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So the original question was, Can you tow an AS with a Ford Flex? I guess tha answer is yes. At 45 mph on flat, level controlled condition. If you look hard enough, you can find info to justify anything. It only took 13 pages of blog to do it. Congratulations.
All it takes is one quick look at the numbers. With a payload of 1,327lbs and an engine output of 365hp, 350lbs torque, the Flex is more than capable to tow any but the heaviest Airstreams, safely, in a controlled fashion.

Independent suspension, a low centre of gravity, and a wide wheel stance all help to make this is a stable tow vehicle.

Size and safety do not automatically correlate, indeed the opposite is often true. A body on frame, top-heavy SUV has far less of a safety margin than a low, wide vehicle with independent suspension all around.
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