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Old 11-18-2013, 04:15 PM   #155
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I agree that the towing threads (and many others) require a lot of thought trying to determine who to believe. Read enough of them and your mind starts spinning and you might buy a tank just in case.

But, there are some posts that make sense—it just takes time to sort them out.

And, any vehicle can be modified to tow more than the stock vehicle. Then cost of modifying the vehicle may be too much to be practical. And you may have warranty issues because manufacturers are unlikely to want to pay for something different than the original design of the vehicle.

So far as I know only Toyota has accepted the recommendations of the SAE on standards for towing. But, some say SAE is not accurate either. I guess those guys buy tanks. I am unaware of any towing specs for tanks, so be careful what tank you buy. You might try a tank forum for further information.

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Old 11-19-2013, 12:35 AM   #156
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I agree that the towing threads (and many others) require a lot of thought trying to determine who to believe. Read enough of them and your mind starts spinning and you might buy a tank just in case.

But, there are some posts that make sense—it just takes time to sort them out.

And, any vehicle can be modified to tow more than the stock vehicle. Then cost of modifying the vehicle may be too much to be practical. And you may have warranty issues because manufacturers are unlikely to want to pay for something different than the original design of the vehicle.

So far as I know only Toyota has accepted the recommendations of the SAE on standards for towing. But, some say SAE is not accurate either. I guess those guys buy tanks. I am unaware of any towing specs for tanks, so be careful what tank you buy. You might try a tank forum for further information.

Gene
A quick note: most of the major auto manufacturer's had input in designing the SAE towing standards. The reason they do not want to implement it is that their vehicle's will be down rated (For example, Sequoia went from 10000# to 7400#). The standard allows the customers to objectively compare tow rating of vehicles by different manufacturers. Right now we cannot do that.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:13 PM   #157
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A quick note: most of the major auto manufacturer's had input in designing the SAE towing standards. The reason they do not want to implement it is that their vehicle's will be down rated (For example, Sequoia went from 10000# to 7400#). The standard allows the customers to objectively compare tow rating of vehicles by different manufacturers. Right now we cannot do that.
Makes sense...you sure can't trust manufacturers. So I guess the only way we'll really know what we can tow is to continue to listen to the experts that have been towing for like...decades.
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:14 AM   #158
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Makes sense...you sure can't trust manufacturers. So I guess the only way we'll really know what we can tow is to continue to listen to the experts that have been towing for like...decades.
Note that auto manufacturers, almost always, overstate the towing capacity of their vehicles (or else they would embrace the SAE standards with no fear).

I would not put all my eggs in one basket and follow the advice of a single tow expert. I would follow the collective advice of several tow experts, the auto manufacturers (80% rule applied), Airstream, and the hitch companies. But to each their own
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Old 11-21-2013, 12:53 AM   #159
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I wouldn't call automotive companies tow experts. They may have some working for them, but it's the marketing people who call the shots. As well as those who assign warranties. Brute strength tends to get the nod, often at the sacrifice of good handling/accident avoidance, not to mention your hard-earned money.

Some people have sorted this out and have good results with it, but you better know what you're doing, or seek their advice.
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Old 11-22-2013, 05:17 AM   #160
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Note that auto manufacturers, almost always, overstate the towing capacity of their vehicles (or else they would embrace the SAE standards with no fear).
As far as I can tell, they overstate the capabilities of their trucks, understate those of almost all their other vehicles, like cars, vans and SUVs.
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Old 11-23-2013, 08:57 AM   #161
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As far as I can tell, they overstate the capabilities of their trucks, understate those of almost all their other vehicles, like cars, vans and SUVs.
Mercedes Benz, which does not offer any pickup trucks in North America, also has a minivan (R series) rated at 3500# (similar to Honda, Toyota, etc). I don't believe its necessarily the profit margin of selling pickups that drives these ratings.
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:03 AM   #162
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I wouldn't call automotive companies tow experts. They may have some working for them, but it's the marketing people who call the shots. As well as those who assign warranties. Brute strength tends to get the nod, often at the sacrifice of good handling/accident avoidance, not to mention your hard-earned money.

Some people have sorted this out and have good results with it, but you better know what you're doing, or seek their advice.
Car manufacturers, Airstream, hitch companies, and RV shops all advice against towing beyond your specs.

Please name another RV shop that advises towing a 7000# trailer with a modified minivan rated at 3500#. If you only have a single data point, your argument may not carry much weight.
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:34 AM   #163
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Car manufacturers, Airstream, hitch companies, and RV shops all advice against towing beyond your specs.

Please name another RV shop that advises towing a 7000# trailer with a modified minivan rated at 3500#. If you only have a single data point, your argument may not carry much weight.
You are new to the fray. For sure there are many views on what factors contribute to the makings of a good, safe TV. Your thoughts have been brought up and discussed in detail many, many, times over the past 10 years on these forums.
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:39 AM   #164
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Makes sense...you sure can't trust manufacturers. So I guess the only way we'll really know what we can tow is to continue to listen to the experts that have been towing for like...decades.
Even though I've been towing cars, boats and travel trailers for 40+ years, I don't consider my self an expert. However, I've made a fine living in the automotive industry and the advances in technology relating to towing capacity have been enormous in the past ten years. I replaced a 2012 Chevy 2500 crew cab 4x4 with a 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee that has more HP and torque to tow my Safari 25'. And did I say how much more comfortable the Jeep is compared to a 3/4 ton truck?

The so-called "experienced experts" will go on and on about the hazards of using smaller SUV's as TV's and tout the use of 3/4 ton trucks as the only way to go.

Having used both types of TV's, I have no problem with the high performance SUV's (lots with diesel power) and I can say without fear of contradiction that they work and the choice of a big truck should be based on need, not as the only alternative to towing an AS.
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Old 11-23-2013, 09:51 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by rostam View Post

Car manufacturers, Airstream, hitch companies, and RV shops all advice against towing beyond your specs.

Please name another RV shop that advises towing a 7000# trailer with a modified minivan rated at 3500#. If you only have a single data point, your argument may not carry much weight.
Pickup truck manufacturers, travel trailer manufacturers, and RV dealerships also advertise many "1/2 ton towable" trailers...
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:26 PM   #166
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You are new to the fray. For sure there are many views on what factors contribute to the makings of a good, safe TV. Your thoughts have been brought up and discussed in detail many, many, times over the past 10 years on these forums.
Yes, I am new. Since you have been involved in this for long, could you please name another RV shop that advises towing a 7000# trailer with a modified minivan rated at 3500?
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Old 11-23-2013, 12:53 PM   #167
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Yes, I am new. Since you have been involved in this for long, could you please name another RV shop that advises towing a 7000# trailer with a modified minivan rated at 3500?
I think most of us, even those who prefer a to drive truck or heavier vehicle for want or need, agree that published tow ratings mean very little indeed.

At least, until the day that there's a standard published that applies to all vehicles, all manufacturers.
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Old 11-23-2013, 02:11 PM   #168
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Yes, I am new. Since you have been involved in this for long, could you please name another RV shop that advises towing a 7000# trailer with a modified minivan rated at 3500?
Name me another RV shop that has spent so much time and money researching and applying towing solutions over the past forty years. Name me another RV shop with as much accumulated data spanning so many vehicles and so many trailers.

I know you don't buy into the way Can Am operates, Rostam; that's your view and you're absolutely entitled to it. But do you ever hear of these tow vehicle setups that fall outside of the manufacturers ratings ending up as wrecks as a result? Do you hear about legal and liability issues associated with them? Do you hear about the tow vehicles expiring in a pall of oily smoke at the side of the road? Surely if things were so wrong then these events would be a common occurrence, but they're not, so they must be doing something right.

How about looking beyond the published figures and see what happens in the real world, on the road? There's a great article in the Winter edition of Airstream Life as well as an excellent podcast on the VAP website, both of which should offer much food for thought.
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