Buying a used 3/4 ton diesel.....advice?

[Skater]

I'm more and more convinced the diesel costs us more money than the gas engine would.

handn basically covered it - diesels cost more to buy, more to fuel, and more to maintain (check out how much oil you need to fill it - mine takes 16 quarts; fuel filters have to be changed more often and are more expensive; air filters are expensive; two batteries instead of one; and so on).

Yes, you get more power, but there's an upper limit to what you really need unless you plan to go 100 mph up mountains while towing, and somewhat better fuel mileage, but I'm not convinced the improved mileage is enough to even offset the cost of the fuel, let alone the other expenses.

My next one will be gas, I've decided.

[acstokes]

Everyone is looking for a good used truck (you are competing with small business owners) and the prices for good used are high.

Handn: What size trailer do you pull with your Excursion? I'm no expert, but I'd venture to say there's a reason diesels are popular and I personally would not want a gasser for anything 30' or more.

[dznf0g]

I can tell you from personal experience, the 6.0 and 6.2L gassers from GM handle my 30' CLASSIC (8500 - 9000lbs loaded) just fine. Is a diesel "faster" under load....sure. But the cost to benefit ratio for sub-11,000 - 12,000lb towables is questionable from a data standpoint. Personl preference is another matter.

I am SURE many of the competitors high torque/HP gassers are too.

[slowmover]

The "economy" of diesels -- from several angles -- left after the 2008 model year in the 3/4-1T series for those with light loads (around 10-12k lbs). From about that weight on up the competition from gassers doesn't really exist. An Airstream TT is a light load.

[Cyberous]

I just did this myself... Ended up with a 2006 Ford F-250.

I used Craigslist, Cars.com, autotrader.com and yahoo auto. I also purchased a carfax block so I could check history on trucks I was interested in.

I wanted a pre smog diesel so that meant something under 2007 for most manufactures. From what I saw the Dodge Cummins commanded the highest price, usually in the $35K+ range for a lower mileage loaded truck. The Ford was the cheapest usually in the $25K range for a lower mileage loaded truck. The GM product was somewhere in the middle of the two.

Once I decided I wanted a Ford I went to my local dealer and was able to talk with the actual diesel tech who would be the one to work on my future truck. He told me all of the ins and outs of the 6.0L and potential costs associated. He said if they are treated right they are a great truck, if they are abused they can be money pits. He suggested when I find the truck I like to bring it in for a prebuy inspection (under $200)

I assume all manufacturers will do the same, I would think a few hundred dollars is money well spent before you buy someone else's problems!

As for me, I was able to buy mine for $20,000 cash, 65000 miles / 1960 hours on the engine. It is a Lariat, loaded with every option, tires and brakes have less than 2000 miles on them. The owner had very thorough records all form the Ford dealer. (He even had the Dealer do his oil changes!) I guess time will tell if it was a smart purchase, but for now I'm a happy camper.

[handn]

Originally Posted by acstokes

Handn: What size trailer do you pull with your Excursion? I'm no expert, but I'd venture to say there's a reason diesels are popular and I personally would not want a gasser for anything 30' or more.

I have one of those 6300 gvw Safaris which I could tow with a minivan according to our friends up north. My old Ex will tow nearly every hill in Colorado at the speed limit. With an exhaust brake, it will go down the same hill without any drama.
I agree anything with three axles would tow better with a diesel but a gas 3/4 ton truck has nearly the same tow rating as a diesel.

[herkvet]

I'm a newbie here but I want to chime in, with a 25' FC that I have yet to pull. I found a 2011 Ram 2500 HD diesel with 12000 miles. Hoping I didn't make a mistake instead of gas. We are planning to spend lots of time out west and thought that both going up and down the Rockies, Tetons, Cascades etc. the diesel would 'perform' better. Guess only time will tell.

[TinTin]

Your new TV should prove to be a good match for your AS. The current price differential for diesel should be erased by the better mileage you'll achieve!

[BAB]

A lot of this is just personal preference -- and budget! I just moved from a terrific 2012 QX56 to a 2014 Ram 2500 Laramie CC with a 6.7L Cummins. The QX had 440 pounds of torque and pulled great...the Ram has 840. My major reason for the change was "hauling space" -- the truck afforded me space for my two basset hounds in the back seat (which folds up and it's flat back there), and a bed to haul generators and all the other gear. It also allowed me to add a 37 gallon auxiliary diesel tank...which gives me better than 1,000 mile range when towing without having to fill-up. The exhaust brake also saves a lot of stress on trailer brakes. I will be doing some mountain travel (US and Canada), and know that the margin of safety of my new truck will make a happy camper!

[J. Morgan]

In my experience the Dodge Cummins diesels are the only one that is worth anything, and still I would stick with gas for the sake of reliability, downtime, and cost of repairs and maintenance.

When a person puts a pen to paper with regard to diesel pickup trucks, an objective eye will tell you diesels ain't worth it.

Besides all of this, my little Chevy half ton with a 5.3 gas pulls my 6,500 lb 31 footer no problem as fast as I want to go.

[BAB]

Guess it depends on how you define "worth it." In my case...and not speaking for anyone else, it was and I have no regrets.

[J. Morgan]

Well, I will put it this way, I own two Duramax trucks, a Ford Powerstroke, and a couple of Dodge cummins, my Ford and Chevy gas trucks have proved more cost effective and trouble free.

I will have to say that of the three, the Dodge Cummins are head and shoulders above their competition.

If I wasn't sour on diesel pickup trucks, a Dodge would be my only choice of the three period.

[r carl]

Can't argue that the Dodge Cummins powertrain isn't good, but the rest of the truck is a POS.

[Tater]

Like most things, opinions vary. I have a Silverado Diesel that will be in next week and I'm trading an 05 Silverado gasser that I love. I pull a 30' Classic and in mountains the 5.3 gasser just doesn't have quite enough to get it done and going through Smokey Mtns National Park it didn't like the 25' we had a few years ago. As far as brand, I like the Silverado interior better and with the proven reliability of the Duramax, I wanted to stay with Chevy. I believe both Ram and Ford are equally as good and I have friends that have both. Interestingly, they both have 5Ws and rarely tow them on the road whereas I towing some type of trailer in different parts of the SE and to Nebraska at least once a year. I started to go with the new 1500 6.2L but the premium gas requirement and payload drove me to a 3/4 ton for the long term. Trucks are like they used to say "different strokes for different folks".

[hickory]

I don't care what everyone else drives. I love my Cummins powered Dodge and it is hardly a POS. Just because you don't like a vehicle doesn't mean it is a POS.
Grow up.
Hickory

[J. Morgan]

I guess in all honesty I am a little put out with Ford and Chevy diesels as of late, in retrospect, I will admit that the Dodge Cummins trucks have been pretty reliable. I revise my earlier comments to reflect this fact.

Still, I despise both the Ford and Chevy post 07 emission diesels, in my view premium price for a substandard product just sucks.

[NevadaGeo]

Something I haven't seen too much attention to in the diesel versus gas discussion: Heat, and how many hours you end up towing uphill reving in low gear watching your transmission temps raise and the smell of burnt transmission fluid with a gasser, versus accelerating up and over same hill with a diesel. But I'm of the few here that can't go put out cash for something off the lot, have to make do with those "well broke in" models. You do get to sit and take in the scenery a whole lot more waiting for the tran temp to come back under max, and get to make a lot of new close friends with nice gestures following you up the hill.:ar row:

[jmcarter]

Agree with NevadaGeo, a good diesel (Cummings or Mercedes IMHO) will take you over the hills without all the worry or drama. Add a brake and the downhills are likewise. The monster torque comes in so low that downshifts are greatly reduced and they simply have trans that are matched to the task (exceptions by model and year). Unless I'm pulling my open featherlite trailer with a small car on it a diesel vehicle will always be in front of my load, no exceptions.

[Skater]

Dropped my 6.0L Powerstroke off for diagnosis Friday...blowing coolant out the recovery bottle cap. Sigh. The diesel was definitely a bad purchase for us...but I think it has more to do with this particular engine than diesels in general.

I ran some numbers, based on current prices and estimated oil change costs, fuel filter costs, and air filter costs (most costs were based on the prices for the 6.0L vs. the gas engine Ford offered at the same time; the fuel prices were whatever they happened to be at one particular gas station I usually use for diesel nearby; I assumed 11 mpg while towing for the diesel, which is about what we get, and 8 mpg for the gasser). Per towing mile, the diesel came out ahead - even with the more expensive fuel, a diesel is cheaper to tow with, per mile. I want to say it was 35 cents vs. 40 cents per mile, but I'd have to look again to be sure.

However, if you factor in the cost of the engine, using the assumption that a new one is $8000+ more than the gas engine, it would take 377,000 towing miles to break even at current fuel prices. The situation is much better if you get it used, of course - if the engine only costs you $2500 extra, then you might break even in less than 100,000 miles (I'm pulling that number from memory).

That's strictly the numbers. I think the gas engine would handle our trailer just fine, but I'd probably notice the difference when we hit some hills, which we usually do on trips - going north or west of here gets hilly before long. I'm pretty confident my wife still wants the diesel. The extra quirks of the diesel are starting to get old to me, but that might be partly due to the headaches we're having with ours. If it were running well without a little black cloud overhead, I probably wouldn't mind the extra quirks of the diesel.

I think my wife would've driven the Dodge 2500 with diesel home from the auto show Friday, if she could've. We both liked it a lot. Ford and GM would work as well, but the Dodge's features inside were perfect for us.

[dznf0g]

Skater, I think you're a bit low on the gas mileage. At least today's engines.....I get, pretty consistently 9 - 9.5mpg while towing and a loaded truck. AS=9000lbs and about 600lbs in the bed. This has been whether I was using a 5.3, a 6.0 or a 6.2 litre.