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Old 12-12-2014, 06:04 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Isuzusweet View Post
You might want to keep tabs on the long term maintainance cost associated with the 6.7 Cummins. Along with many other diesel trucks, lots of problems with EGR systems and particulate filtration systems.
IMHO the maintenance costs to service modern 07+ diesels far outway the extra cost of gas of a gasser. Diesels use to be bulletproof simple, but now are far more complicated than a gas equivalent.
One tip....fill up with the best quality diesel you can find, so it will burn easier without any crap to clog up the exhaust cleaning systems.
It can't be any worse than the long term maintenance costs of our PSD 6.0L, which was an '06. That thing was bleeding us dry.
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Old 12-12-2014, 06:18 AM   #30
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Wow,
I can't tell you how many times in my 35 years of working in automobile repair
I have heard these sentiments echoed...I even find slip into this mode myself sometimes, on a bad day!

I believe that in general, cars and trucks are far better designed and built than in any time in our lives. Between safety enhancements, drivability improvements, advances in ergonomics and material science these vehicles so far out perform their ancestors it is amazing!

Remember the days of 10,000 mile spark plug replacement? The cost of 10 spark plug replacements would add up to more than that expensive sounding $1900! How about the days when engines or entire cars had to be rebuilt after 100,000 miles? Remember wondering if he car would start on a cold wet day?

It is not that I hate old technology. I miss some of the old days too... The days of actually being able to have impact on the way a car runs? The simplicity of the old systems to diagnose? As said, being able to see things under the hood? All this and more are things I miss when I am waxing in nostalgia...

When I want to get somewhere? When I want to be comfortable? When I want not to smell like grease and gasoline? I go modern!

When I had to replace the plugs in my own 2010 F-150 with the 5.4 it was less than an hour of easy light work. Yes my engine is the one with the redesigned cylinder heads so the plugs no longer stick in the heads. It is also the last of the breed in the F-150's.

I see nothing about my truck that would prevent it from existing in 30 years.. I hope that if I am still here, I get to see one at an antique car show 30 years from now. I will not still want one though because the state of the art will hopefully have come so far that it will look like the antique it is!

Bruce

Least anyone label me a hater of all things old, here is a picture of our 1972 Fiat 500L that we drove three hours round trip to pick up our Thanksgiving turkey a few weeks ago... Believe me I get it!
AMEN!


I have a large variety of vehicles. My most dependable and longest running are my more modern ones. I have had multiple F150's go over the 300,000 mile mark with little more than routine maintenance and replacement of wear out parts. I also have a several vintage vehicles that require almost constant maintenance to be able to drive. Two that get the most use are a 1963 Dodge Sweptline the other is a 1965 Chevy pickup. Both require much more attention than my 1996 F350 PSD or my 2003 F150. I do agree that not all modern stuff is perfect and the repair costs can run up very quickly. But they built lemons back in "the good old days" too.

Aaron
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Old 12-12-2014, 06:19 AM   #31
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We have a 2010 Flex and is been doing great so far. We have 90k mls on it and so far we only had to replace one of the ventilation actuator . Unfortunately we service our flex not as much as I service my 96 f350 dually . So far it has been very reliable ... But we also do not tow with it .. If we trade it one day, it will be for sure for Another older Ford. They never left me stranded :-) I for sure would not drive any other brand. Too much bad experience with other vehicles .


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Old 12-12-2014, 06:32 AM   #32
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For the $1900 spark plug change, there are now tools available that will allow a motivated technician to change the plugs by doing no more than loosening the injector rail.
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Old 12-12-2014, 06:38 AM   #33
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For the $1900 spark plug change, there are now tools available that will allow a motivated technician to change the plugs by doing no more than loosening the injector rail.
Just curious, what engine/truck is it he was referring to? Must be a Super Duty with a V-10?
Never had the pleasure myself...
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Old 12-12-2014, 07:33 AM   #34
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1900.-? Real trucks don't have spark plugs 😄



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Old 12-12-2014, 07:59 AM   #35
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I plan on babying my '95 PowerStroke hoping it will last as long as I need it. Only has 106K miles on it. Regular oil changes, a bypass oil filter to super-clean the oil, and trans fluid changes every 30K miles should boost the odds of it lasting a long time. (All done by me) Adding to that the fact that I won't abuse it trying to do more than it was designed to do will also be a key. The 7.3L PowerStroke engine is a great engine. The E4OD transmission can be an issue, but seems to do well within its limits. I'm sure I could destroy it if I tried, just like anything else.

(Also added the largest non-fan-cooled transmission fluid cooler that I could find that will help keep the tranny healthy.)
If you want a nearly bullet proof E4OD (I have the same tranny BTW) look at a seriously upgraded replacement unit. Here is an article that details some of what to look for. My 1996 F350 has 150,000 showing on the odometer, tranny has over 75,000 miles of towing on it and I am surprised it has lasted this long. It is on it's way out and will be replaced with a beefed up unit.

Aaron
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Old 12-12-2014, 08:07 AM   #36
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Lease option

A number of my relatives lease their vehicles. They have had bad experiences in the past and don't like risks when it comes to vehicles ownership. So leasing costs are a bit higher but the stress and concerns of high repair costs are somewhat gone. Something to think about.
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Old 12-12-2014, 08:21 AM   #37
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So we were pretty excited last year to get a new tow vehicle, but that has been tempered by some issues that have cropped up this first year. The car is an '09 with 90k on it now, and so far we have accumulated a disturbing number of repairs.

The latest one has been an issue with the gas tank. Apparently this car has a 'saddlebag' style tank, and an elaborate siphon system which moves gas from the far side to the side that actually supplies the engine, and that fails disturbingly often, judging by the comments online from other people who have had the same issue. The result is you will be driving along with a quarter tank left, and suddenly that drops to empty and you are out of gas. It left my husband stranded on the freeway a week ago, and then almost caught him a second time a few days later. Now it's fine as long as we keep it well above a quarter. The estimate to get this fixed is $900-1300 because they have to drop the tank to do it. The worst part is reports online of people who have had to have this repair done more than once!

So add that to the estimated $400 repair needed to get the second row seat to fold down, and the $900 engine fan that is 'throwing a code' though it appears to be cooling things just fine to me, and that's a lot of expensive repairs for the first year. Oh, and the tranny grinding noise which was fixed with a transmission fluid change. Otherwise it has been a really nice, comfortable driving car, but I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone run out and buy one.

Maybe the most disturbing thing is that all these repairs are being reported by lots of other owners - they are well-known issues. I'm sure they all have their problems, but we went with the Ford over more expensive brands because we were hoping to keep repair costs down, and our Ford Van had been so darned reliable. That doesn't seem to be working out for us right now, and there's been some discussion of trading it in. Except then we would be back to that 'choosing the RIGHT tow vehicle' discussion, and I was so glad to have that over with!
I am sorry to hear about the problems you're having. Machines begin to "live" in a unique manner depending on the operator, which is like the analogy another poster used with "where the car was traded" is an indicator of the "how" and "why" they disposed of it.

I have no systems experience with a Flex other than a Motorcraft Class III hitch installation, which required removal of some rear body cladding and minor fabrication. Other than that, I do know that all automotive manufacturers that sold in North America had component vendor issues that are coming to light as these vehicles wear-out. The Flex I mentioned above has had to have a few software pushes but other than that it gets beat and plugs along.

Best of luck.
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Old 12-12-2014, 09:27 AM   #38
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Sorry to hear about all the issues you're having.

Last January, Karen and I settled on a 2011 Ford Flex AWD w/EcoBoost in the 7-pax configuration w/about 22,000 miles. No sun roof (for us a plus) and the Ford Class III hitch already in place. Interestingly at a Chevy dealer outside Atlanta.



It had had minor right front damage repaired, but I think that was reflected in the price, and an independent shop inspected it and verified the repairs had been done properly.

We went into this eyes open as an experiment. We both liked the styling (Mini Cooper that swallowed a school bus!) and the color on this one. But my experience to date has shown Japanese-built cars to be more reliable and better built than American. In the above photo you can see the 2005 Honda Element that's become our "beater" and has been very reliable over 170,000 miles to date. We sold a 1993 Toyota Land Cruiser, bought used in 2004, that still worked but was getting a bit "long in the tooth" to trust on cross-country adventures.

Rationally, we probably should have chosen a Toyota Sequoia or Nissan Armada or Honda Pilot or something. And may still if the Flex becomes problematical.

We have only had three problems to date, with the first two possible related.

1) Karen told me she was driving downhill near our house once when the engine died. Could not replicate it, but it made her nervous.

2) One time the car would turn over but not start - not even a whimper. Still under warranty, that was diagnosed as a bad "crank sensor" and replaced.

3) One of the glossy black trim panels in the rear that give the windows the wraparound look had developed a small crack at its upper forward mounting point. The other side had not cracked, but you could see a stress riser developing. Both replaced under warranty.

And that's it, now with about 33,000 miles.

When working on the Flex, it gives a bit of an impression of flimsiness. Things like the plastic underbody panels that seem kinda thin to me. Then again, its maybe not fair to compare it to a 21-year-old Land Cruiser, which is in a different class and from a different time. And much of the appearance of flimsiness may be dictated by CAFE standards and the drive for lighter vehicle overall, appreciated in the 21-22 mph highway mileage we get - not towing of course. And in spite of all this, the car rides incredibly well - quiet and with that "all of one piece" feeling of solidity.

And it tows our CampLite with authority, even here in the mountains. Wit 365 hp on tap, it should! We did get the receiver reinforced by CanAm last week, as outlined in another thread.

Anyway, out of warranty now. Will make a point of transmission fluid changes, probably annually before each towing season.

If it all works out, great! If not, we'll sell it, buy something else and move on!
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Old 12-12-2014, 09:57 AM   #39
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"Will make a point of transmission fluid changes, probably annually before each towing season."

I'll leave the efficacy of yearly tranny services to others, but if you decide in favor, consider a power flush in lieu of 'changes'. Much more efficient in replacing most all of the fluid. Have the filter,(if equipped), replaced at the first flush and it will last considerably longer.

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Old 12-12-2014, 10:16 AM   #40
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Shades or remembrance! I bought an '07 F250 with the dreaded 6.0L Diesel. This truck was in their service department almost as much as I drove it! The last time that they had it was for over 2 weeks and when they were done I received a call saying "they were done with my truck", I asked if it was repaired they stated that "they had done all the work that they were going to do". Ford Motor Company was no help at all.
There were so many issues with this truck that I had to Lemon Law it, thankfully we have a Lemon Law in California. Don't think that I would buy another Ford. Just bought a new 2014 Silverado 1500 to tow our 1958 Airstream 18' Traveler.
Sometimes buying used can be a gamble! sorry to hear of your troubles
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Old 12-12-2014, 11:15 AM   #41
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Unfortunately the 6.0 and to a lesser extent, the 6.4 Powerstroke engines had a bunch of known issues. The engines were designed by Navistar and manufactured by Ford. The Ford-Navistar relationship cratered with each company pointing to the other as the source of the failure. Ford said the design was poor; Navistar said Ford cheaper out on components. In any event, the 6.7 Powerstroke is an all-Ford product and seems to have avoided the problems of its two predecessors. I don't think a used 6.0 or 6.4 would be s smart buy without a warranty, and I doubt the warranty would be cheap, because the word is out on the problems of these engines. IIRC there's an outfit in Arizona that specialize in replacing the failure-prone components of the 6.0, primarily the EGR cooler, with a redesigned unit. Not a cheap repair if I recall.
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Old 12-12-2014, 11:32 AM   #42
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...Anyway, out of warranty now. Will make a point of transmission fluid changes, probably annually before each towing season.

If it all works out, great! If not, we'll sell it, buy something else and move on!
That vehicle is new enough that it may qualify for a Ford ESP warranty. This warranty is sold by Ford and backed by Ford. I was worried about the powered running boards on my Platinum F150 that are more than $2000 per side and decided to purchase the warranty. Ford charged me $1800 for a warranty that extended the "bumper to bumper" 3 year 36,000 coverage the truck came with to 6 years and 125,000 miles. The only big notable exclusions in the warranty are for soft items (think seat leather or vinyl) and finish. It is incredibly inexpensive peace of mind.

I have had both of the running boards fail, one heater module fail (an expensive repair) and a couple of tire pressure monitors.

Be wary of aftermarket warranties! Some are pretty good and some simply a rip off. I would usually suggest that customers purchase from the manufacturer. It is simply the safest bet.

Bruce
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