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Old 08-10-2008, 11:12 AM   #57
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Whatever tv you decide on....

Drive with...uncommon sense.

We see so many others fly by us at 70+, with visibly un-stable rigs.

BE SAFE
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Old 08-10-2008, 05:27 PM   #58
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You can’t beat a diesel for towing. Give it up you gas guys. I pull a 32’ excella and would not use anything else. I did pull a 16’ bambi for a short time and didn’t even know it was back there. The thing with my 07’ 6.7 litter Dodge is that it has 3 break systems. Transmission, exhaust and 4 wheel disc. I hardly ever touch the brake peddle. It’s a ¾ ton, which is important for any type of towing and or hauling. The ½ trucks are good for lighter loads and trips to the store. Towing, I get 15 miles to the gallon at 65 mph. The cost for fuel might be more right now, but I feel the mileage and ease of towing out ways the cost. This is also my daily driver in which I get over 17 mpg.
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Old 08-10-2008, 05:51 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Journalist View Post
Something a lot of people are failing to take into consideration is beyond simple suspension upgrades. 3/4 and 1-ton trucks are not simply 1/2-ton trucks with beefier springs. They also have heavier driveline components, stronger axles, much bigger brakes and, in many cases, even heavier frames. The brakes on my 1-ton would make the brakes on a 1/2-ton Chevy of the same year look like they came off of a Honda Civic. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that should my trailer brakes fail, I can get my rig stopped, even on the side of a mountain. You can install air bags, helper springs, oil coolers, transmission coolers, and all the whiz bang aftermarket gizmos you want, but a light duty truck or SUV will never measure up to simply buying a heavier duty version of the same vehicle. You can make any vehicle tow something it was not designed to, but it will not do it safely or reliably. Also, for someone new to towing, more truck is always a good thing. If the truck will handle much more than the trailer requires of it, it's a lot safer for someone who may not have the experience to handle their rig when things go wrong.
well said!!! People seem to be worried over the price of fuel. diesel gets better mpg and has the power and control. Also the smaller suv types dont have a long wheel base and as such dont have the same control as a longer truck type.
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:39 PM   #60
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Thumbs up

I'm a "gas guy", but won't take the bait.

If your happy with what ya got....go camp'n
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:55 AM   #61
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Quote:
You can’t beat a diesel for towing. Give it up you gas guys. I pull a 32’ excella and would not use anything else.
Rumship, I am very happy for you that you are happy, but the fact is, there are other thoughts on the matter from people that don't tow such large trailer.

There is no doubt a big smoking clanging Diesel is a better pure tow vehicle than a 1/2 ton gasoline truck. Heck, if the "best tow vehicle" was the only issue, and costs and creature comforts were not an issue, we would all have Kenworths to tow our airstreams with.

However, the fact remains, for some of us with the smaller trailers, a 1/2 ton gasoline truck does the job just fine, and is a good, ecomomical, comfortable everyday driver. When I bought my latest truck, I considered a Diesel, and when I put a calculator to it, it just did not work for me.

You see, at that time, and even at this time, the only way you can buy a Diesel truck is to buy at least a 3/4 ton. So, if you add the cost of the 3/4 ton, and the cost of a Diesel power plant, you have spent roughly, an additional $10,000. Now, assuming the Diesel does in fact get the 20% increase in fuel mileage (the personal reports I have gotten from actual honest users does not support this), but for the sake of no argument, we accept it, and not even considering the increased costs of oil and fuel filter changes, how many miles do you have to drive with 15% more expensive fuel to pay for the Diesel?
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:48 AM   #62
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I haven't done any research on this since buying a new truck 6 months ago, but supposedly with the '09 or '10 model year GM is introducing a new 4.5L diesel for it's Suburbans/Tahoes - at the time I couldn't determine if they were going to put it in 1/2 ton trucks. Anyway, if this rumor is true, it might be worthwhile to wait for a 1/2 ton diesel truck or SUV. Presumably, for those with smaller (i.e. 25' or under) trailers this would be the best of both worlds.
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Old 08-11-2008, 09:48 AM   #63
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I wont take the bait either. My buddy has a 6 .0 liter turbo deisel and when towing like trailers we both acheive 12 to 12.5 mpg. My son has a 7.3 liter his does better but not much above 15mpg, it is a crutch to justify the high fuel bill. My opinion is just my opinion. PS dont forget to factor in maintanence. Just the cost of oil offsets it I have 7 quarts you have 4 gallons. My fuel filter is done 30 to 35000 miles yours? every or everyother oil change filters? those are pretty expensive. I like my 5.4 liter. She is rated in my chassis at 18500 lbs off the hitch and 245000 fith wheel. more than I will ever tow.
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Old 08-11-2008, 09:59 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbradhstream View Post
I haven't done any research on this since buying a new truck 6 months ago, but supposedly with the '09 or '10 model year GM is introducing a new 4.5L diesel for it's Suburbans/Tahoes - at the time I couldn't determine if they were going to put it in 1/2 ton trucks. Anyway, if this rumor is true, it might be worthwhile to wait for a 1/2 ton diesel truck or SUV. Presumably, for those with smaller (i.e. 25' or under) trailers this would be the best of both worlds.
Well, it MIGHT be. The thing is, how will a 4.5L Diesel pull in comparison to a 5.3L, or 6L gasoline engine? The fact is, at this time we don't know. And, yes I read about the new upcoming Diesel that GM has designed. It SHOULD get better fuel mileage, but will it also have the power to pull an Airstream? At this time, we just don't know for sure how it will perform. Other questions we don't have the answer to is, how much will it cost, how much will it cost to maintain, and what will be the reliability?

Just because it is a Diesel, does not make it bullet proof, as we know from GM's early experiences with trying to convert the 5.7L (350 ci) gasoline engine to Diesel.
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Old 08-11-2008, 10:21 AM   #65
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Gearing is important. It seem they keep putting more ratios in the automatics. My Torque shift shifts 6 times when towing under a load Ford said it will and is normal. It cought me by surprise.
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Old 08-11-2008, 10:34 AM   #66
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Toyota announced it was going to downsize in The U.S. There was talk of there trucks market being soft. Maybe Chevy hurt them with that fuel economy report, and Ford with the Inclass towing report.
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:42 PM   #67
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Truck controversy continues and continues…

Jeff, every time someone asks what truck works best, the same sort of posts show up. Some people are convinced all American trucks fall apart quickly or all Japanese trucks are lightweights suitable only for a few bags of groceries. Neither are true. As for diesel, re-read SteveH's #61.

Diesel has gotten so expensive because there's a world market shortage of diesel. Europeans export gas to us because they have a surplus, but they have no surplus of diesel to export here. They have a lot of diesel cars (50% I think) and that's why they have none to export. There will be more diesel cars in the US, and that will only aggravate the present shortage. So, all other things being equal, diesel is probably a poor economic choice for the future.

I tow an '08 25' Safari FB with an '07 Tundra 4WD with the big V8. I have no problems. I have towed it over Colorado mountain passes more than 11,000'. In fact, when in a big hurry, I was passing cars going up Monarch Pass. I have an Equalizer hitch. No sway and the trailer follows me around curves as if truck and trailer were one articulated unit.

Having crawled around under this Tundra and the 2002 I used to have, the difference in the size of the drive shaft, U-joints, brakes, differential and suspension is massive compared to the earlier Tundras. The engine is 385 hp and it has slightly over 400# of torque. It's comfortable and the double cab has plenty of room. It handles very well, much better than the 2002. No matter how fast I pull up the passes, neither the cooling system or transmission temps budge off normal.

The only thing I would wish differently is that it had more payload. All other weight considerations (GCVWR, etc.) are very good for a 25' or even longer. We thought anything longer than a 25' would not be a good match with our Tundra only because of the payload. A 2wd Tundra and/or a regular cab would give you a lot more payload. If you're a packrat, maybe this truck wouldn't be for you because you might overload it, but you could do that with any truck except a Peterbuilt or Mack. I think there was a post earlier stating a Tundra with a full tank of gas and 2 people was maxed out. That's wrong. I went over and over the numbers on this and so long as you don't go nuts on stuff, you should be fine.

We figured the Tundra and Safari as a package. We wanted to buy another Toyota because of their reliability. So far we've had no problems. There were some problems with early 2007 Tundras and they all appear to have been solved long ago, but some people gleefully repeat this over and over.

As someone wrote a while back, 1/2 and 3/4 ton as types of trucks are misleading. Every brand and every model is different and figuring it all out takes a lot of thought. There's no industry wide or gov't standard for 1/2 or 3/4 ton or other designations like "heavy duty", so do your research. There is a lot of information and also a lot of opinions about the best truck for you and you will have a lot to read.

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Old 08-11-2008, 12:46 PM   #68
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Nissan is reportedly halting Titan production. Will offer a cosmetically altered Dodge. Issue is same as with all the other's, plummeting sales.
Nissan and Chrysler may build cars and trucks together - Autoblog

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Old 08-11-2008, 12:58 PM   #69
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"As someone wrote a while back, 1/2 and 3/4 ton as types of trucks are misleading."

Tundra is a wonderful truck. Perfect for many setups. But, the jump is not from 1/2 ton to Peterbilt. 3/4 and 1 ton diesels configured correctly haul more than 1/2 ton trucks. You have to decide for yourself what your GCWR and GVWR are. Then how much weight you can and need to carry and tow. Scales help tremendously. It's all there for those doing the research. Opinion and personal experience not meaning a whole lot.

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Old 08-11-2008, 02:39 PM   #70
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Years ago, I rebuilt a '52 Chevy (five-window) truck from the frame up. This was a "half-ton" truck that featured a 216 straight six with "dippers" (due to the low pressue oil pump.) This little engine put out less than 100 hp with the GM Class "B" downdraft carb. I scavanged parts from other Chevy trucks including a few bigger boys with the 235.

The '52 was a working truck. I ran it every day for years "stock," vacuum wipers, 6v system, starter pedal, the whole shebang. I put it into storage in Montana until my nephew picked up the torch and decided to make the old girl more "modern." All in all, I expect I've spent more time behind the wheel of a 50s-era pickup than most folks.

I now drive a '04 Nisssan Titan "half ton" truck. The Titan pushes over 300 hp and about 375 ft/lbs of torque. While the straight six was torquey and the old truck had a 411 rear, I wouldn't use it for towing trailers that I would feel perfectly comfortable towing in the Titan.

I'm not making a fine point here, just suggesting that the whole 1/2 versus 3/4 ton issue is rarely as straightforward as the opinions. Is a bigger rig better? Usually. Is a bigger rig necessary? Not always. Towing is hard on a truck, but not nearly as hard as some other duties. My family has been in the logging business for over half a century. Put 20,000 unpaved, poorly graded, badly rutted, washboard road miles on a rig and everything starts to shake loose. Want to tear apart a truck... push snow for 16 hours a day for a few weeks on end. Pulling a trailer is a vacation compared to the beating hitting manhole cover lips and curbs gives out.

Buying crew cabs for the woods where you need a diesel slip tank, 3/4 ton minimum. Buying municpal fleet trucks with utility bodies, lift gates and snow plows, 1 ton minimum. Of course, I do take a bit of heart from the fact that America logged and pushed snow and even pulled trailers with little 216 and 235 engines... back in the day.

My advice remains... know the GVWR and the GCWR, abide by them, keep your equipment well maintained, err on the side of caution, etc. Once you follow those rules, jawboning about truck "A" versus truck "B" is mostly just a way to pass the time, sort of like whittling or chewing tobacco.
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