Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-25-2010, 10:44 AM   #1
2 Rivet Member
 
carl28's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Colorado Springs , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 24
AS brochure length and weight mysteries

Hello All

I am new here - have been studying the airstream floorplans and specs for new trailers, with consideration to matching the tow vehicle, and have discovered some things I cant tie down - would appreciate any comments:

1. The specs seem to indicate that “length” of the trailer is from the coupler to the rear bumper - is this really the case I can’t find any detail drawings anywhere. I ask this because:

2. On the brochure, the 28’ floorplans are speced as being 1” shorter than the 27s. But the floorplans seem to indicate that the 28 is in fact longer than the 27, not shorter. This is especially noticeable for the international page. This is not a screen or a printing issue because the plans are comparative on the same page. I put little marks on a piece of paper and the plans seem to be shown at the same width on the page (or screen) within a millimeter or so. So I dont think that someone has just imported these floor plans as images at the wrong scale on the page. This applies to both the overall trailer length and the length of the coach walls themselves.


3. The 28 ft models (27’-11”) seem to have a longer camper enclosure and a comparatively shorter A-frame / hitch area. Is the A frame shorter here? Does that affect anything with towing or balance? It looks as if the A frame is squished a bit, or the shell is overlapping what used to be a shorter frame. - it seems more noticeable for the international page floorplan. If this is the case, there is actually (comparatively) a more useable floorplan space in the 28 than the 27.


4. The 28 ft is listed as only being about 100 lbs heavier dry UBW than the 27s, yet it looks like more camper and yet is speced 1" shorter, making me wonder more. The blackwater tank is 2 gallons less than the 25 and 27.....
...

5. I understand the tongue weight specs - but the overall vehicle weight listed for the 28 ft is really about the same as the 25 and 27 - but it has less carrying capacity by a more significant jump comparatively to the 23s and 25s - so perhaps this is 28 ft is in reality a bigger coach on the same 27 ft trailer frame.



this 28 seems like a different animal - thoughts????
 thanks in advance, trying to justify that hitch load some in the midst of all this
__________________

__________________
carl28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 04:47 PM   #2
2 Rivet Member
 
carl28's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Colorado Springs , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 24
OK - no one is responding - I think I have determined that the posted pdf for the airstream website is just improperly scaled, while the web page version of the same floorplan (international 28) seems to be correct.

If anyone has any notes regarding how the different A frame dimension at the front of the trailer might impact hitching or towing that would be great

still curious if this is a different frame altogether from the 27s
__________________

__________________
carl28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 05:04 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
funkill's Avatar

 
1973 27' Overlander
reno , NV
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,447
Images: 27
Sorry Carl, can't answer your question personally but be patient. Sometime takes a day to get flooded with replies!

I'm surprised that a 27' and a 28' are both offered. heck, I never even heard of a 28'. My 27' is measured tongue to bumper - but don't know it's exact measurements of cabin - just thought it to be in the 25' to 26' range. Sounds like I'm a slacker - but that is definately not the case. I surprise myself at my priorities sometimes. Ask me tire size and I can give you all the details... well, I could - back when I was doin' the research.

Laura
__________________
funkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2010, 07:11 PM   #4
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,602
Images: 1
(Answered this in your other thread). Published figures (even length) is open to interpretation. Center-of-hitch-ball to rear bumper outermost edge is trailer length (in decades past some trailers were measured by body exterior only, or, even just interior floor length).

Weights are absolutely NOT reliable except from a certified scale. Even trailer to trailer differences (options) can make significant weight differences.

Try either adding 700-lbs of personal gear past full fresh water and propane (plus several hundred pounds for options); or try deducting about 5-700-lbs from trailer GVWR to get guesstimate into focus. So long as one keeps in mind that all guesstimates are essentially worthless it's mental play until numbers can be obtained from real examples.

Conservative estimates are always high. VERY high, to be reasonable as you play around.

Good luck.

.
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 12:53 AM   #5
2 Rivet Member
 
carl28's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Colorado Springs , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 24
thanks for these responses - my original question was a little bit involved so I was sort of blaming myself not others. Its actually a tundra question in disguise - I havent yet seen a 28 footer in person...

I have to assume if you loaded up the trailer on the 28, the hitch load would go up about the same proportionally as the 27s or even the 25s, since the plumbing, cabinets, and tanks are over the wheels more or less in the same places.
__________________
carl28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 08:41 AM   #6
Rivet Master<br><img src="/ugala/forums/images/5rivet.gif">
 
CanoeStream's Avatar

 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,279
Images: 19
Blog Entries: 3
I agree that you've got to treat listed weights as a starting point -- even for a new, unloaded unit. Fresh water is usually right at the axle; one does tend to tow more with this full and the others empty ... but not always. Moment arm calculations (hardly necessary) would suggest that adding antisway/weight distribution gear and propane at the A-frame would add mostly to hitch weight.

Don't assume the catalog illustrations to be scaled properly -- and certainly not one to the next. I would think that A-frame sizes are all similar enough and these wouldn't lead to reporting trailer lengths unlinked from cabin length.

The convention for measuring is bumper to ball. And the stated length is derived from tossing away fractional feet; eg, my 25' 11" Safari is called a 25-footer. Except there was some model sequencing that led the new 27' 11" Internationals to be called 28-footers. And later yet, the 28' long (per the catalog) FB International was introduced. That was called the 27-footer to remove any confusion. I know ... makes no sense. I'm not sure the 28' or 27' would measure any differently in the real world. Overall significance is not worth tangling with.

I hope you can walk through both floorplans. That's how your preferences should guide you.
__________________
Bob

5 meter Langford Nahanni

CanoeStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 01:31 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
Aviator's Avatar

 
1997 34' Limited
1970 27' Overlander
South of Atlanta , Georgia
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,655
Images: 2
I keep reading that the length of our Airstreams is from ball to bumper. That said, our 1997 34' trailer is 35'11" from ball to bumper.
__________________
Craig and Carol
1997 34' Excella 1000
1970 27' Overlander, International
2009 Ford F150 5.4L
ProPride hitch with 1400# bars

AIR 41028
TAC GA-8
WBCCI 10199
Past President Southeastern Camping Unit (12)
Aviator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 02:33 PM   #8
4 Rivet Member
 
steverino's Avatar
 
2010 27' FB Flying Cloud
Ivins , Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 276
Images: 3
Just as a point of reference; data fresh off of a CAT scale for my 2010 FC 27FB. Tongue weight, for the trailer loaded as we normally tow (full fresh water tank, full propane, normal assortment of personal items, bedding, camping equipment, etc) was 900 lbs exactly. Which is up 109 lbs from the published spec. About 40 of that weight can be attributed to tools and supplies that I stow in the front locker. Don't know if the 28 has a front locker; it might be under the bed in the rear.

As far as tongue length, I think it's the same for 27FB and 28. they are equipped identically with respect to power jack, propane cover, and battery box.
__________________
steverino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 09:49 PM   #9
2 Rivet Member
 
carl28's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Colorado Springs , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 24
steverino

thanks for this post! This confirms what I have been wondering, the tongue is probably going to be more than what I am trying to guess, but not outrageously so, based on specs for the 28. I assume this is the real tongue weight not the WD number of course - I dont know how you would really weigh that one anyway - Thanks again. You can see my other thread at "sell my new tundra?..."
__________________
carl28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2010, 09:59 PM   #10
4 Rivet Member
 
steverino's Avatar
 
2010 27' FB Flying Cloud
Ivins , Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 276
Images: 3
I got 2 cat scale readings - one with rig hitched with WD, and one with the truck alone. the net gain in weight on the truck's steer and drive axles when hitched, is what I call tongue weight.
__________________
steverino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 12:22 AM   #11
2 Rivet Member
 
carl28's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Colorado Springs , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 24
OK - thanks
that means the non-WD weight is more like 1200 lbs which makes more sense loaded up, and the 28 will likely be even heavier. So that really puts a twist on things for my setup. (You dont have some mega 200 lb hitch do you?)

thanks again this is a real number I think will make a difference for my plans
__________________
carl28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 01:25 AM   #12
4 Rivet Member
 
steverino's Avatar
 
2010 27' FB Flying Cloud
Ivins , Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 276
Images: 3
Surely there's more expertise here than me, but isn't what counts is the weight applied to the truck when hitched up and WD installed? Yes, there might be 1200 lbs on the tongue jack when unhitched, but that's not the weight the truck bears when hitched up...
__________________
steverino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 09:36 AM   #13
Vintage Kin
 
slowmover's Avatar
 
Fort Worth , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,602
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by steverino View Post
Surely there's more expertise here than me, but isn't what counts is the weight applied to the truck when hitched up and WD installed? Yes, there might be 1200 lbs on the tongue jack when unhitched, but that's not the weight the truck bears when hitched up...
Depends on how it is distributed (which is why a separate TW reading is called for), which can vary according to a particular TV, AND by TV manufacturer recommendations. Trailer loading can also, obviously, change things, so a TW (empty weight) is the background for any changes (as all changes tend to be additions).

Hitched (only) is another TW, and any application of leverage are other TW's (differing amounts of force applied via bars).
__________________
1990 35' Silver Streak Sterling; 9k GVWR.
2004 DODGE Cummins 305/555; 6-manual; 9k GVWR.
Hensley Arrow. 9-cpm solo, 15-cpm towing
Sold: Silver Streak Model 3411
slowmover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2010, 11:24 AM   #14
2 Rivet Member
 
carl28's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
Colorado Springs , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 24
my assumption is that theres no guarantee you are going to get exactly 2/3 of weight from the WD hitch on the TV. And then I agree the system is changing as you use up water or move cargo on a trip.....

Also the non-WD hitch weights are kind of useful to get some perspective on all the various numbers, if you are willing to absorb them - dry vs wet vs non-WD vs scaled vs the manf stated weights.
__________________

__________________
carl28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Length and weight information StevenG Our Community 9 11-20-2008 11:42 AM
Electrical mysteries mrauch Electrical - Systems, Generators, Batteries & Solar 2 08-06-2008 07:37 PM
Trailer weight Vs length DasAir Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 28 04-08-2008 06:55 AM
GVWR Mysteries ljmiii Axles 7 05-21-2007 04:28 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.