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Old 10-20-2007, 04:55 PM   #15
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Howie,

Even though your hitch is set up properly, and from the weights you give it's about as close as you'll get it, the steering on your Ex feels vague because the four spring stack holding your rear axle on isn't strong enough to keep the axle centered under your 7,000 lb truck when you're driving. That results in the axle moving out of center, and causes rear-axle steering. It's uncomfortably vague going over railroad tracks, or over washboard surfaces, but it's downright scary when you're towing.

The Superduty trucks have an eight spring stack that is much more stout and capable of holding the axle under them. The Ex has the shorter four spring stack for improved ride as a passenger car.

Good aftermarket shocks, a 36mm Helwig sway bar, and Land Yot radius rods will totally eliminate that problem while not degrading the unladen ride much. Each one of those add-ons will help, but to eliminate it altogether when towing you'll need all three.

Roger
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
..The Superduty trucks have an eight spring stack that is much more stout and capable of holding the axle under them. The Ex has the shorter four spring stack for improved ride as a passenger car...
while i agree with the upgrades suggested on the exc...

my 05 250 sd/psd with the maximum available rear stack, came with 5 leafs not 8...

also this stack fatigued enough after 2 years of towing that another leaf was added recently up to 6...

in addition sometime during the 6.0l superduty run the leaf springs were widened, so perhaps the exc has the older width.

it's tricky to translate #of leafs to capacity or stiffness...

the NEW 08 f-450 dually with it's massive payload/towing specs, only has 3-4 leafs...

but they are easily twice+ as thick as mine....

the new 250s/350s have 5, 6 or 7 leafs but they are thinner and LONGER than previous years...

supple AND strong, but again confusing direct comparisons....

cheers
2air'
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:40 PM   #17
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Thanks for clarifying that, Joe. The Superduty stacks were twice as thick... I presumed that to be twice the leaves... but they may in fact have had the same number of leaves, just much heavier duty...

Roger
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:58 PM   #18
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Also, on the Superfords Excursion forums there are a number of folks who are installing Superduty springs on their Excursion which would also cure the problem.

Roger
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Old 10-28-2007, 07:44 PM   #19
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Weekend Update

Just got back from a weekend trip to Hershey Pa., about 120 miles each way.

Before leaving I have new Michelin 2665 75 16 Es put on the truck.

My comment is I had more fun driving from Winnapeg Canada to Montana in a snow storm, with my Suburban, than driving to Hershey.

The truck was all over the road in calm weather and hard to contro in the 25 mph side wind I had on the way home.

I will call Hellwig in the am about thier sway bar. But keep your thoughts coming as this thing is downright unsafe at this point.
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Old 10-28-2007, 07:55 PM   #20
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hi howieE

i'm not defending your specific tire selection, i don't own this brand or model.

and i do think the excursion benefits from the other enhancements bandit suggested in post 7...

but most tires need 1-2-300 miles of road time to 'break in'

i recently put new tires on the f-250 and for the first 150 miles (non towing) they were very squirrelly...

it was SO BAD that i considered returning them (and i had kept the originals) but...

by 200 miles they were much improved at tracking, stopping, turning and so on.

i can imagine towing with them while brand new not have been pleasing, but now with nearly 6,000 miles the tires are excellent towing.

in addition, what inflation pressures did you use?

cheers
2air'
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Old 10-28-2007, 07:56 PM   #21
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Howie, I was just going to add the same as Joe... your tires should have 70-75 psi in the rears when towing...

Roger
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Old 10-29-2007, 01:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
Howie, I was just going to add the same as Joe... your tires should have 70-75 psi in the rears when towing...

Roger
The trailer is set at 45 lbs even though the chart calls for much less. I run the trailer a bit high just incase I have to run on 2 after a flat.

The truck calls for and is set to 50 in the front and 55 in the rear. Even with the trailer on this is above the chart recomended pressure. I have always run similar pressures in the Suburban with these tires.

Interesting comment about New Tires and a run in time.

Keep the thoughts coming and I will keep updating as per changes.
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Old 10-29-2007, 02:11 PM   #23
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howieE

wasn't the suburban about 2000 lbs LIGHTER?

imo opinion ALL of tires are under inflated.

and i do realize you are trying to minimize vibration/shock into the trailer, but still....

the excursion has a curb weight well over 7000 lbs...

so i'm gonna conclude that fully loaded and hitched the tv is over 8k and 2k per wheel.

perhaps you've got the correct and SPECIFIC inflation guide for the michelins, ((these are E rated correct?))

because the guides are NOT interchangeable brand2brand.

i don't have the guide for your tires AND cannot locate it online...

it is possible the tires defer to the ford inflation figures IN the owners manual or on the b pillar...

i suspect the tv should be at 65 (minimum) to 75 psi depending on f/r wt distribution.

it would be simple enough to add air to the higher number and take a test drive...

then back off 2-4 psi till handling suffers.

on the trailer side have you checked tire temps? yes 45 may work but the tires may run cooler at 50 or 55...

keep at it bro!

2air'

back to your description...this REALLY reads like the typical feedback from UNDER inflation, with or without towing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
...The truck was all over the road in calm weather and hard to contro in the 25 mph side wind I had on the way home...
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Old 10-29-2007, 03:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
howieE

wasn't the suburban about 2000 lbs LIGHTER?
imo opinion ALL of tires are under inflated.

and i do realize you are trying to minimize vibration/shock into the trailer, but still....

the excursion has a curb weight well over 7000 lbs...

so i'm gonna conclude that fully loaded and hitched the tv is over 8k and 2k per wheel.

perhaps you've got the correct and SPECIFIC inflation guide for the michelins, ((these are E rated correct?))

because the guides are NOT interchangeable brand2brand.

i don't have the guide for your tires AND cannot locate it online...

it is possible the tires defer to the ford inflation figures IN the owners manual or on the b pillar...

i suspect the tv should be at 65 (minimum) to 75 psi depending on f/r wt distribution.

it would be simple enough to add air to the higher number and take a test drive...

then back off 2-4 psi till handling suffers.

on the trailer side have you checked tire temps? yes 45 may work but the tires may run cooler at 50 or 55...

.

keep at it bro!

2air'

back to your description...this REALLY reads like the typical feedback from UNDER inflation, with or without towing.
The Sub was only 440 lbs lighter

Excursion along is 8060 lbs

Front axle with trailer was 4160 only a 40 lb. increase so I up that but don't have a current weight. The rear with trailer was 4440 lbs an increase of 540 lbs.

Michelin has taken the chart off the web but I have thier Truck Data Book and it shows a pressure of 45 for the front and 50 for the rear. I am using the Ford door post pressures of 50 and 55. I have talked to Michelin about the tire pressure before I set the truck up and they recomended the pressures for booth the truck and trailer.

Tires run at about 105 on the shaded side and 110 on the sunny side.
Several have posted that they think it is tire pressure but having towed this trailer for 12 years with these pressures I think it is a Ford problem.

My niece started out with her 04 Excursion with tires inflated as per the side wall. She flipped it after a truck went by her and I am tring not to follow suite.
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Old 10-29-2007, 04:59 PM   #25
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Howie, I don't know what chart you're looking at, but your E range tires should be 70-75 psi when carrying the trailer.

55 in the rear will give you all kinds of fits.

You can't say that she flipped the Excursion because of tire pressures... there had to be other stuff going on. E-range tires, regardless of brand, have a huge variance in inflation pressures for load carrying ability. I'll look up the Michelin tables, but you are way underinflated for the load.

Roger

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
The trailer is set at 45 lbs even though the chart calls for much less. I run the trailer a bit high just incase I have to run on 2 after a flat.

The truck calls for and is set to 50 in the front and 55 in the rear. Even with the trailer on this is above the chart recomended pressure. I have always run similar pressures in the Suburban with these tires.

Interesting comment about New Tires and a run in time.

Keep the thoughts coming and I will keep updating as per changes.
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Old 10-29-2007, 05:08 PM   #26
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Michelin load inflation tables

Here you go, Howie!

Michelin RV tire load inflation tables

Truck tire load inflation tables.pdf


And last, the LTX load inflation table

I'm running LTX M/S on my Born Free moho with the E450 chassis... and I keep them at 75psi in the rear duals and 65 in the front. All these show about 2700+/- lbs per tire at 80 psi. Try airing them up to 75 and see how much difference it makes.

Roger
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Old 10-30-2007, 04:29 PM   #27
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Had a very lengthily conversation with a Michelin Company truck tire rep today. After reviewing my axle weights and other factors he came to the same conclusion I had as far as tire pressure, 50 front and 55 rear. He did say that under no circumstances should I go out to 75 psi as that would reduce the road contact surface to a dangerous state.

Now I have to question if I want to get into a chassic redesign or sell the truck. Today I mounted a Thule rack system in hopes of carring my kayak. The roof on the Excursion is so thin that it would not support the rack let along the kayak.
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Old 10-30-2007, 05:16 PM   #28
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HowieE,
Not trying to be brand partial but I would stick with your diesel Suburban . When I saw it at the canopener last year it struck me as one awesome tow vehicle especially with those mods that you had done for the 6.5td. That is my 2 cents.
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