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Old 09-14-2013, 02:20 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Safari-Rick View Post
Ok, here's the bottom line.... yea you can tow it but are you willing to carry the stress of seeing your thermostat hitting the red line, the engine turning itself off so as not to blow the engine? Warped engine head(s). etc etc etc....?
My thermostat NEVER has shown the engine is in duress, even while pulling the Hover Dam grade in 117 degree ambient with the AC on and 4 in the X5; I could however hear the electric fan blowing high (X5 also has a mechanical fan/clutch).
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Old 09-14-2013, 02:51 PM   #16
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Ok, here's the bottom line.... yea you can tow it but are you willing to carry the stress of seeing your thermostat hitting the red line, the engine turning itself off so as not to blow the engine? Warped engine head(s). etc etc etc....?
Steve (UKToad) rigged his TV up with a ScanGauge II, which allowed him to measure hp output. He couldn't get his engine to develop more than 110hp, and that under heavy acceleration with his trailer in tow.


Power is rarely a problem.
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:06 PM   #17
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I tow my 34' with a Honda Odyssey with no issues.

You will get many different opinions when it comes to tow vehicles. There's one group, to which I belong, that believes that published tow capacity is pretty much irrelevant for as long as you don't overload the vehicle - i.e respect payload and axle ratings.

There's another group that believes that bigger is almost always better and that published tow ratings are meaningful.

My personal setup is as follows:

The trailer weighs 6250lbs empty, with a camp ready tongue weight of about 850lbs with all tanks full. My Honda has a payload capacity of 1400lbs. I use a Hensley Hitch for towing.

Weight distribution pushes about 25% of 850lbs back onto the trailer axles, leaving the Honda to carry approx 650lbs. That leaves me with a margin of 750lbs for passengers and gas. All luggage, such as it is, travels in the trailer.
There is a sticker on the hitch which specifies the tongue weight limit with and without weight distribution hitch (WDH). When using the weight distribution hitch, the max tongue weight is usually higher. However, even the higher limit with WDH is for dead weight -- weight you measure using a scale when the trailer is not attached to the tow vehicle (TV) -- a quick call to your auto manufacturer will verify this. For example, if your tongue weight is 800# (measured by a scale when the trailer is not attached to TV), and your tongue limit with WDH is 700#, you are exceeding the ratings (even if the WDH moves some of the weight to trailer axles).

You must also consider the weight of the WDH assembly. Hensley, etc add more than 200# to the tongue weight. Kind of counter intuitive, when your problem is too much tongue weight, and you add a 250# hitch to move some weight to the axles. I wonder if the hitch can even transfer more that its own weight to the rear axle of the trailer.
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Old 09-14-2013, 03:15 PM   #18
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Hensley etc do not add 250# to the tongue weight because they lengthen the tongue relative to the receiver, and that effectively reduces the tongue weight on the tow vehicle receiver.

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Old 09-14-2013, 03:34 PM   #19
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Hensley etc do not add 250# to the tongue weight because they lengthen the tongue relative to the receiver, and that effectively reduces the tongue weight on the tow vehicle receiver.

doug
I'm not sure the extra length is enough to reduce the tongue weight, even by the amount the hitch adds to the tongue weight. A scale measurement would be really helpful for this discussion.

Also, moving more weight to trailer axles and TV front axle might not necessarily be a great idea, as the rating for those might be exceeded.
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Old 09-14-2013, 06:45 PM   #20
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Hensley, etc add more than 200# to the tongue weight. Kind of counter intuitive, when your problem is too much tongue weight, and you add a 250# hitch to move some weight to the axles. I wonder if the hitch can even transfer more that its own weight to the rear axle of the trailer.
That, in my experience, is not the case.
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:41 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by rostam View Post
There is a sticker on the hitch which specifies the tongue weight limit with and without weight distribution hitch (WDH). When using the weight distribution hitch, the max tongue weight is usually higher. However, even the higher limit with WDH is for dead weight -- weight you measure using a scale when the trailer is not attached to the tow vehicle (TV) -- a quick call to your auto manufacturer will verify this. For example, if your tongue weight is 800# (measured by a scale when the trailer is not attached to TV), and your tongue limit with WDH is 700#, you are exceeding the ratings (even if the WDH moves some of the weight to trailer axles).

You must also consider the weight of the WDH assembly. Hensley, etc add more than 200# to the tongue weight. Kind of counter intuitive, when your problem is too much tongue weight, and you add a 250# hitch to move some weight to the axles. I wonder if the hitch can even transfer more that its own weight to the rear axle of the trailer.
It's kind of like that "sound barrier" that initially was thought of as impenetrable, but now that it’s understood the reality is it ain’t that big of a deal.

My X5 OEM hitch label states max 6,000# trailer with 600# tongue weight, both carrying and distributed, i.e. that “sound barrier”. Reality is 35,000+ miles with Hensley tongue weights of 1,000+# and trailer weights as high as 9,000+#.

If the assembly is set up correctly, i.e. the “sound barrier” is understood, then the reality is it ain’t that big of a deal.
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:47 PM   #22
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These tv discussions are entertaining.Both my tv's weigh in near 8k,my safari somewhere around 6k(unimportant to me).I tow up any grade at the speed I want and come down most with the cruise control able to keep me at my desired speed with out braking.It works for me.I don't enjoy taking a trip and listening to an engine that has to downshift 2-3 times to make the crest.
it's just my preference
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Old 09-14-2013, 10:17 PM   #23
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It's kind of like that "sound barrier" that initially was thought of as impenetrable, but now that it’s understood the reality is it ain’t that big of a deal.

My X5 OEM hitch label states max 6,000# trailer with 600# tongue weight, both carrying and distributed, i.e. that “sound barrier”. Reality is 35,000+ miles with Hensley tongue weights of 1,000+# and trailer weights as high as 9,000+#.

If the assembly is set up correctly, i.e. the “sound barrier” is understood, then the reality is it ain’t that big of a deal.
My grandfather smoked a pack of cigarettes a day for 70 years. He died of natural causes when he was almost 90. Does this mean everyone should be smoking a pack of cigarettes a day? I don't think so. By the same token, just because you did not have a problem with grossly exceeding the manufacturer's ratings in your setup, does neither mean that its a good idea nor that others should be doing the same. They may not be as lucky as you.

Lets get back to the original issue: I believe having a Hensley WDH increases the tongue weight. Hensley does increase the effective tongue length, but it also adds 200# to the tongue, and the length increase may not be enough to compensate for the 200#. It would be great if someone who has a Hensley, would use a sacle and 1) measure the tongue weight at the coupler without Hensley, and 2) measure the tongue weight with Hensley at the hitch bar.
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Old 09-14-2013, 10:20 PM   #24
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These tv discussions are entertaining.Both my tv's weigh in near 8k,my safari somewhere around 6k(unimportant to me).I tow up any grade at the speed I want and come down most with the cruise control able to keep me at my desired speed with out braking.It works for me.I don't enjoy taking a trip and listening to an engine that has to downshift 2-3 times to make the crest.
it's just my preference
Entertaining indeed. I like to hear the engine/transmission of our Ram 1500 downshift, earning its keep, because it reminds me of the $20,000 I didn't waste buying too big of a truck.

doug
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Old 09-14-2013, 10:35 PM   #25
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. . . Lets get back to the original issue: I believe having a Hensley WDH increases the tongue weight. Hensley does increase the effective tongue length, but it also adds 200# to the tongue, and the length increase may not be enough to compensate for the 200#. It would be great if someone who has a Hensley, would use a sacle and 1) measure the tongue weight at the coupler without Hensley, and 2) measure the tongue weight with Hensley at the hitch bar.
I think some have, but each may be different depending on the distance of hitch receiver to trailer axle.

But adding a Hensley/Propride rather than a conventional sway control w.d. hitch does not add as much more weight as it seems. To pick some numbers out of the sky to make the point, if the Hensley and stinger weigh 200# and the conventional hitch and stinger 100#, there may be little difference carried on the truck receiver between the two because the Hensley extends the distance from the truck receiver to trailer axle.

doug
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Old 09-14-2013, 10:41 PM   #26
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My grandfather smoked a pack of cigarettes a day for 70 years. He died of natural causes when he was almost 90. Does this mean everyone should be smoking a pack of cigarettes a day? I don't think so. By the same token, just because you did not have a problem with grossly exceeding the manufacturer's ratings in your setup, does neither mean that its a good idea nor that others should be doing the same. They may not be as lucky as you.
I don't think that's a very fair comparison. Years of clinical testing and mountains of evidence will tell you that smoking is proven to be injurious to your health. There is no such evidence available to show that exceeding manufacturer's ratings when towing a travel trailer is similarly injurious; it's all just hearsay. Indeed, those that do exceed said ratings and travel successfully are the only ones with any actual evidence at all.

Anyway, that's nothing to do with the debate here.

Unless there's anyone out there who has used the OP's proposed combination of TV and trailer then any answer is going to be subject to the vast array of opinions available here. There's nothing wrong with gathering opinions, I'm all in favour of that, but my advice would always be to speak to a professional for the final word.
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Old 09-15-2013, 02:59 AM   #27
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One needs to speak to a professional that is not selling at the same time. The profit motive can color the suggestions made and products recommended, especially if those products are sitting in their inventory.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:12 AM   #28
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While a Hensley does add 190lbs to the tongue, this is only about 70lbs more than your average hitch with WD and anti sway.

All systems add weight to the naked trailer.
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