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06-14-2004, 12:57 PM
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#1
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Rivet Master
2005 28' International CCD
Pagosa Springs
, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 811
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Another tow question
I'm trying to weigh pros/cons between a GM tow vehicle with 6.0 liter and the 4.10 ratio vs the 8.1 liter and 3.7 ratio. I'd think the 6.0 liter would get better mileage and the 4.10 gives me close to the same towing capacity as the larger engine. Sort of a Ginger vs Mary Ann I guess, but I'd appreciate the groups wisdom.
__________________
"would you rather have a mansion full of money or a trailer full of love?"
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06-14-2004, 01:26 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1976 27' Overlander
Richmond
, Virginia
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 755
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8100 vortec=danger
Hut,
Chevorlet considers 1 quart of oil for every 100 gals of fuel normal. I have a friend that has a 2500 Suburban that would be happy to talk to you. Just pm me and I will give you his number.
As far as the 4.10 gears the weight of your trailer will be your guide.
From the Chevy trailer data:
2wd 6000 vortec 3.73 #7900 8100 10,500
2wd 4.10 #9900 8100 12,000
4wd 6000 3.73 #7600 8100 10,200
4.10 #9600 8100 12,000
(with quadrasteer -300#)
For my 27' Overlander the 4.10 rear is over kill and I will work to change my gears back to 3.73.
Hope this helps!
Abe
__________________
"Abe" & Melissa Lincoln
1976 Overlander "Spirit"
2020 GMC Denali Duramax
Hensley Hitch
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06-14-2004, 03:06 PM
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#3
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Rivet Master
2021 27' Globetrotter
Saint Louis
, Missouri
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Hut
Sort of a Ginger vs Mary Ann I guess, but I'd appreciate the groups wisdom.
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As a kid, I was partial to Ginger, but now would think she'd be "high maintenance", so I'd opt for Mary Ann
Dennis
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06-14-2004, 03:51 PM
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#4
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Rivet Master
2005 28' International CCD
Pagosa Springs
, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 811
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which
I've always stuck with Mary Ann.
__________________
"would you rather have a mansion full of money or a trailer full of love?"
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06-14-2004, 06:04 PM
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#5
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Just a member
1978 28' Argosy 28
Lutz
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,549
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At the risk of being a bit off color:
Ginger is the one you want to date and get lucky with. Mary Ann is the one you want to marry.
I try to think long term
__________________
Brett G
WBCCI #5501 AIR # 49
-------------------------
1978 Argosy 28 foot Motorhome
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. -- Plato
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06-14-2004, 06:07 PM
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#6
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Rivet Master
1956 16' Bubble
Rose Lodge
, Oregon
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: 1961 26' Overlander
Posts: 921
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The two concepts are mutually exclusive? Ick.
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06-14-2004, 06:23 PM
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#7
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Retired Moderator
1992 29' Excella
madison
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,644
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewkid64
At the risk of being a bit off color:
Ginger is the one you want to date and get lucky with. Mary Ann is the one you want to marry.
I try to think long term
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my thinking exactly brett!
john
__________________
you call them ferrets, i call them weasels.
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06-14-2004, 06:30 PM
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#8
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Just an old timer...
2004 22' Interstate
Tipton
, Iowa
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenewkid64
At the risk of being a bit off color:
Ginger is the one you want to date and get lucky with. Mary Ann is the one you want to marry.
I try to think long term
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Brett... I'm appalled! That would be appalled with a Capital "A", two "p"s, and two "l"s.
Roger
__________________
havin' to fix my broken Airstreams since 1987...
AIR 2053 Current: 2004 Airstream Interstate "B-Van" T1N DODGE Sprinter
Former Airstreams: 1953 Flying Cloud, 1957 Overlander, 1961 Bambi, 1970 Safari Special, 1978 Argosy Minuet, 1985 325 Moho, 1994 Limited 34' Two-door, 1994 B190 "B-Van"
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06-14-2004, 08:08 PM
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#9
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Retired Moderator
1992 29' Excella
madison
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,644
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so who would you pick roger?
john
__________________
you call them ferrets, i call them weasels.
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06-15-2004, 09:48 PM
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#10
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Rivet Master
1986 25' Sovereign
Southern Middle
, Tennessee
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,319
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tin hut,
I considered the 6.0 with 4.10 vs. the 8.1 with either the 3.73 or 4.10 rear end. I can tell you that the 6.0 really likes the 4.10 since it likes to rev. I chose the 8.1 over the 6.0 in the 2001 model because of more than numerous complaints about noise (CSK) from the 6.0. I have been extremely pleased with my 8.1/Allison auto transmission combination and now have 33,100 miles on it with no problems. They seem to have taken care of the short piston noise problems they were having with the 6.0.
Comparing comments made from forum members and those from the www.pickuptrucks.com forum, the 6.0 gets 2-3 mpg more on the highway solo (18 mpg) than the 8.1 (14.5-15 mpg) but towing seems to be a dead heat (10-12 mpg). I'd rather have the extra power/performance of the 8.1, reliability of the Allison (the manual is good also) over the 4 speed auto of the 6.0, and the fact that the rear end is a heavier duty unit with the 8.1/Allison combination. Matter of fact, it has the same transmission/rear end that the 3500 dually has. You can't ask for a better combination out of a 2500hd than that other than the increased mpg of the diesel.
Towing capacity of the 6.0 with 4.10 in the 2500hd ext. cab short bed 2X4 is 1,400 lbs. less than the 8.1 with 3.73 in the same configuration. The 4x4 with 6.0 has 1,900 lbs. less than the 8.1. I think you get the picture. There is no substitute for cubic inches.
__________________
Craig
AIR #0078
'01 2500hd ext. cab, 8.1 litre gas, 5 sp. Allison auto
3.73 rear end
Mag-Hytec rear diff cover
Amsoil Dual by-pass oil filtration system
Amsoil synthetics all around
265 watt AM Solar, Inc. system
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06-15-2004, 09:55 PM
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#11
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Rivet Master
2005 28' International CCD
Pagosa Springs
, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 811
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8.1
Thanks Craig for the advice. That's the way I'm leaning. Sounds like most of the issues with piston slap has diminished in the last year or so and I like the reserve power the 8.1 has over the 6L
__________________
"would you rather have a mansion full of money or a trailer full of love?"
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06-19-2004, 12:53 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
1976 27' Overlander
Richmond
, Virginia
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 755
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6000 vortec vs 8100 vortec
FWI
the 6000 vortec has 325 hp and 365# of torque
the 8100 vortec has 320 hp and 440# of torque and is a $950 option.
the extra 75# of torque cost $12.66 per pound is pretty steep in my book.
abe
__________________
"Abe" & Melissa Lincoln
1976 Overlander "Spirit"
2020 GMC Denali Duramax
Hensley Hitch
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06-19-2004, 04:20 PM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1978 31' Sovereign
Texas Airstream Harbor
, Zavalla, in the Deep East Texas Piney Woods on Lake Sam Rayburn
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vajeep
FWI
the 6000 vortec has 325 hp and 365# of torque
the 8100 vortec has 320 hp and 440# of torque and is a $950 option.
the extra 75# of torque cost $12.66 per pound is pretty steep in my book.
abe
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The following was downloaded from the Chevy Vortec Engine site:
First, the specs on the 6.0 liter engine:
Horsepower:
325 @ 5000 rpm
GMC Sierra Denali
320 @ 5000 rpm
GMC Yukon Denali/Yukon XL/XL Denali & Suburban
315 @ 5000 rpm
H2 (prelim)
300 @ 4400 rpm
Chevy Express, GMC Savana, 3500 series, 2500 HD & 3500 GMC Sierra and Chevy Silverado pickup and crewcab
Torque:
370 @ 4000 rpm
GMC Sierra Denali
365 @ 4000 rpm
GMC Yukon Denali/Yukon XL Denali
360 @ 4000 rpm
GMC Yukon XL/Suburban, Chevy Express & GMC Savana 3500 series
H2 Prelim
2500 HD & 3500 GMC Sierra & Chevy Silverado pickup and crewcab
And for the 8.1 liter:
Horsepower:
340 @ 4200 rpm L18
325 @ 4000 rpm MD L18 w/LRW power option
295 @ 3600 rpm MD L18 w/LRZ power option
225 @ 3600 rpm MD L18 w/LQR power option
Torque
455 @ 3200 rpm L18
450 @ 2800 rpm MD L18 w/LRW power option
440@ 3200 rpm MD L18 w/LRZ power option
350 @ 1200 rpm MD L18 w/LQR power option
Quote:
Originally Posted by vajeep
the 6000 vortec has 325 hp and 365# of torque
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The 325/365 are at 5000 and 4000 rpm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vajeep
the 8100 vortec has 320 hp and 440# of torque
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The 320/440 rating is about 4000 and 3200 rpm.
In my opinion, the 8.1 liter engine is the clear winner. The 6.0 liter would be turning it's heart out at a continuous 4000 to 5000 rpm.
Granted, I would not turn the 8.1 liter at 4000 rpm continuously either, but my 454 engine runs all day long in the 345 at 3000 rpm.
And gets up to 3600rpm in second for as long as it takes to pull a hard hill.
All depends on what you really need - my vote would be for the 8.1 liter for consistant heavy duty work.
__________________
Dennis
"Suck it up, spend the bucks, do it right the first time."
WBCCI # 1113
AirForums #1737
Trailer '78 31' Sovereign
Living Large at an Airstream Park on the Largest Lake Totally Contained in Texas
Texas Airstream Harbor, Inc.
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06-19-2004, 05:52 PM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1976 27' Overlander
Richmond
, Virginia
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 755
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thanks for the information
The numbers I posted were from the Chevrolet.com build it site. The numbers were from the options area for motor choices.
I am all about knowing more about the motor that is in my Suburban.
I am rated for 9300# total trailer wt. Our 27' Overlander is rated at 4500 empty. I long ago realized the Ford/Chevy Gas/Diesel Ginger/Mary-Anne
etc.. Was all about what the driver wanted to be driving. I love this forum because I always get honest answers.
Abe
__________________
"Abe" & Melissa Lincoln
1976 Overlander "Spirit"
2020 GMC Denali Duramax
Hensley Hitch
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06-20-2004, 04:56 AM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1976 27' Overlander
Richmond
, Virginia
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 755
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In my opinion, the 8.1 liter engine is the clear winner. The 6.0 liter would be turning it's heart out at a continuous 4000 to 5000 rpm.
lt depends on what you really need - my vote would be for the 8.1 liter for consistant heavy duty work.[/QUOTE]
I agree! Do you have the 8100 Vortec? Has any one been able to explain why Chevorlet considers 1 quart of oil use for 100 gallons of fuel normal?
Since the 2500 burbs have a 37.5 gal fuel cell 1 quart every 3 fill ups is strange to me. My 6000 has 5300 miles so far and no oil use. ( I changed to Mobil one oil at 300 miles)
I have a friend in Va Beach that has his 8100 vortec (2500 Suburban w/4.10 rear) taken apart one time already for an "oil usage study" Chevorlet has taken the stand that the 1qt/100gals is normal and if you have a problem with this you are on your own. I will be happy to give you my friends # if you pm me.
__________________
"Abe" & Melissa Lincoln
1976 Overlander "Spirit"
2020 GMC Denali Duramax
Hensley Hitch
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06-20-2004, 07:26 AM
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#16
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Rivet Master
LOST
, Hawaii
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vajeep
Has any one been able to explain why Chevorlet considers 1 quart of oil use for 100 gallons of fuel normal?
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8.1 is a big engine. Consider the total length of the circumference of the piston rings and valve stems that have to be sealed. Larger cylinder bores also have to have more clearance between the piston and cylinder because of the expansion of the piston. If mileage is 10-15 mpg, towing/empty, that is a quart of oil every 1000-1500 miles. Pretty good all in all.
John
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06-20-2004, 08:13 AM
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#17
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Aluminut
2004 25' Safari
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, Illinois
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,477
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Have you considered the Duramax/Allison combo. I know it's a $5k option with the power discount, but mileage would be about 15mpg towing rather than 9-10mpg for the gasser, plus, you could have 3.73s and not worry about tow capacity.
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06-20-2004, 09:02 AM
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#18
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Contributing Member
2018 Interstate Grand Tour Ext
Austin (Hays County)
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,164
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Agreed
Quote:
Have you considered the Duramax/Allison combo. I know it's a $5k option with the power discount, but mileage would be about 15mpg towing rather than 9-10mpg for the gasser, plus, you could have 3.73s and not worry about tow capacity.
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I just returned from a month on the road and over 4000 miles of towing. With diesel anywhere from $.25 to $.35 less than unleaded and 15 mpg rather than 10 mpg, I saved over $200 in fuel cost and required far fewer fuel stops than the same truck with a gasoline engine.
Plus, and it is a terrific plus, the diesel is so much less tiring than any gasoline engine I have ever towed with. It is as quiet as any gasoline engine at druising speeds. I pulled 588 miles one day and stopped only because I was passing a state park that I like. With a 3.73 rear end and towing in overdrive, I turn only 1900 (60) to 2000 (65) rpm and I can often go for hours in cruise control without ever shifting out of overdrive. With the Allison, there is no more trying to avoid crashing downshifts on hills.
__________________
John W. Irwin
2018 Interstate GT, "Sabre-Dog V"
WBCCI #9632
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06-20-2004, 12:01 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
2001 34' Limited
The State of
, Ohio
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,605
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Let me add to the recommendations for diesel. It doesn't cost as much as the retail price. Most savvy shoppers will only pay about dealer invoice, which makes the engine and transmission options cost less up front. Come trade-in or sale time, you'll get much of that back. In the meantime, you'll be saving fuel, and experiencing benefits that are priceless.
With a gas engine, the peak torque is at higher rpms, and it's less than the diesel's. The solution is to run one gear lower, which not only gets the rpms up at/near the torque peak, but gives torque multiplication, as well.
As John said, the diesel running at a lower rpm is MUCH less stressful on the driver than the gas engine screaming along. It's so much more relaxing. But that's not the critical advantage.
When you have to downshift below Drive (to 2nd on a 4 speed or 3rd on a 5 speed), to climb a long, steep grade, the torque converter is unlocked and slipping. This generates a lot of heat, often more than the transmission cooler can handle. A diesel seldom needs to do this, but a gas engine will, to get the rpms up near the torque peak, and get the same torque to the wheels.
With 3.73:1, my overdrive puts me at 2,000 rpm at 70 mph, and at the engine's 1600 rpm torque peak at 58 mph, the speed I usually tow at. Punching OD off at 60 mph brings rpms up to 2400 rpm, just below the 2600 rpm horsepower peak, which occurs at 65 mph in Drive. The newer diesels reach their torque and horsepower peaks at higher rpm, and are better suited for faster towing.
The increased mileage means more than cost savings. Those who opt for a Crew Cab often settle for a short bed to keep length reasonable, about the same as an Extended Cab with long bed. This means a much smaller fuel tank, and fuel tank size times mileage translates into range. The mileage of a diesel is, IMHO, really necessary for towing with a short bed truck, and it's just plain great on a long bed.
Another advantage, at least with the late-2001 and later Fords, is that the fuel filler is large and straight, meaning you can take the big high-speed nozzles at the truck islands. They're so much more roomy than even the RV islands at Flying Js, and you don't have to worry about nearby gas pumps generating fumes that would require you to shut the refrigerator or furnace off.
If you're gonna buy GM, get the Duramax/Allison options.
__________________
Maurice
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