Amazing Sight! Buick SUV towing ......

[easplund]

I was at a campground in Oregon last week, where I saw one of those Buick SUV thingies hooked up to what I estimated to be a 34' Airstream. It was huge, and had three axles. I was amazed! I looked up the specs on that Buick, and it has a 4500# max towing capacity with the factory tow package. The owner was using a Hensley, but I still think that he is crazy!

[Al - K4GLU]

Not to worry. CanAm up in Canada will fix you right up. They claim you can tow just about anything with just about anything irregardless of mfg tow rating. They've got people towing triple axle Airstreams with Dodge Minivans so why not a Buick SUV? Apparently a lot of people do this and get away with it but I can't help wondering if they had a serious accident what their insurance company would have to say about it.

[subfan1]

Where is the picture?

[easplund]

Originally Posted by subfan1

Where is the picture?

It was raining too hard for me to want to get a picture. I know it doesn't help you here, but that image is burned indelibly into my mind.

[easplund]

Originally Posted by Al - K4GLU

Not to worry. CanAm up in Canada will fix you right up. They claim you can tow just about anything with just about anything irregardless of mfg tow rating. They've got people towing triple axle Airstreams with Dodge Minivans so why not a Buick SUV? Apparently a lot of people do this and get away with it but I can't help wondering if they had a serious accident what their insurance company would have to say about it.

Obviously he can do it, because he was. As a Hensley user myself, it probably works pretty well, but I can't imagine that Buick is going to last very long. The transmission will probably go up in smoke in not too long.

[zlee]

They claim you can tow just about anything with just about anything irregardless of mfg tow rating.

I don't know that that's quite true, as if you suggest something that they feel is not safe or that will wreck your TV, CanAm'll tell you about it soon enough. At least they did me.

I understand Andy Thomson has been doing a very popular series of columns in Airstream Life the last few months, I'm going to have to find back copies and read it.

[mutcth]

First off, nice new trailer!

Originally Posted by easplund

As a Hensley user myself, it probably works pretty well, but I can't imagine that Buick is going to last very long. The transmission will probably go up in smoke in not too long.

The Enclave uses the same transmission as the GMC Acadia and Chevrolet Traverse, which are rated to tow 5200 lbs. (The difference is the hitch, which CanAm reinforced on the Enclave you saw.)

The limitation is based on powertrain cooling tests. Avoid towing uphill in Death Valley with the A/C on full blast at highway speeds and it will probably be fine.

Have to say, I expected a different reaction from someone towing with a ML. Plenty of people will jump in and say that's crazy too. As for the Hensley, the Enclave's longer wheelbase probably benefits its stability.

Andy Thomson talks about his customers' Enclaves here.

Tom

[easplund]

Originally Posted by mutcth

First off, nice new trailer!

Have to say, I expected a different reaction from someone towing with a ML. Plenty of people will jump in and say that's crazy too. As for the Hensley, the Enclave's longer wheelbase probably benefits its stability.

Tom

Well, the ML is rated for 7200#, and I am towing only a 23'. That 34' Airstream has got to weigh twice the 4500# max rating of the Buick!

[c_lewis77]

I am not sure I would feel very safe grossly exceeding mfg max weight ratings.
I am of the opinion that a safety factor is a wise thing to consider. You can never fully control road conditio.s, other drivers, or other misc factors. Just my 2 cents.

[dkottum]

easplund, the maximum hitch weight is often an issue with light tow vehicles. For example your Int'l 23 is about 720# dry, then add some 250# for your orange hitch. What is the maximum hitch (tongue) weight allowed for your ML?

Andrew Thomson reinforces the hitches on his setups.

doug k

[easplund]

Originally Posted by dkottum

easplund, the maximum hitch weight is often an issue with light tow vehicles. For example your Int'l 23 is about 720# dry, then add some 250# for your orange hitch. What is the maximum hitch (tongue) weight allowed for your ML?

Andrew Thomson reinforces the hitches on his setups.

doug k

That is something that has concerned me since I got it. The hitch on the ML does not have a weight distribution rating. The only explanation that I have had on that issue is that the Europeans don't use weight distribution hitches, so the manufactures don't bother to test and rate them. Also, how the trailer is loaded can lessen the hitch weight. A full tank of water, for example, will lighten it.

[AirHog]

We tow our 34 ft triple axle 2005 classic (Hensley) with a Dodge 2500 TD or with a Yukon Denali (6.0 L gas). We have done a few thousand miles with each and we like the tow with the Yukon significantly better and in our opinion gives a much nicer ride. We have done hills in PA and NY with no problems (slow and steady). Also we had two minor panic stops while towing with the Denali- no issues. The hottest the Denali transmission got was about 200 deg at about 90 deg summer temp. We use a class V Curt hitch and next spring will be traveling to Can Am RV (Andy T) to have the car reinforced and put some extra rivets on the 34 footer per Andy's recommendation. We know Andy and the work he has done and we trust his judgement - no question asked.

Best,

Titu.

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by easplund

A full tank of water, for example, will lighten it.

That 400 pounds of water mounted between my trailer's front axle and the tongue will most certainly not lighten the tongue weight, quite the opposite. Maybe it will lighten the tongue weight on your trailer, IF the water tank is mounted behind the axles.

[easplund]

Originally Posted by overlander63

That 400 pounds of water mounted between my trailer's front axle and the tongue will most certainly not lighten the tongue weight, quite the opposite. Maybe it will lighten the tongue weight on your trailer, IF the water tank is mounted behind the axles.

Yes, the tanks are behind the axles on the 23D International. I forgot to mention that little bit.

[Al - K4GLU]

Have any of you who use CanAm's services ever called your insurance company and told them you planned on using a tow vehicle that according to the mfg is grossly under powered for your trailer - for instance a vehicle rated at 3500 lbs to tow a triple axle that weighs over 10K - and if you have what was their response? Or are just doing it and hoping nothing will happen?

[mutcth]

No, I haven't called the insurance company. (I'm towing within the ratings of my van - for now.) Since they'll pay if I'm speeding or commit another offense, they will likely pay if I'm doing something that's actually legal.

Tow ratings have little to do with being "underpowered" or vehicle dynamics or braking safety. They have to do primarily with powertrain cooling (but are tested in a rather extreme test) and hitch strength (which can be reinforced.) Manufacturers also do not pay the extra money to validate vehicles like sedans and minivans to a higher rating because they do not see a marketing benefit to doing so.

If you feel more comfortable towing within manufacturer's weight limits, I won't dissuade you. But I'm tiring of the constant "you can't do that" and "that won't work" that comes from folks who haven't researched the engineering or tried towing with different vehicles.

Tom

[Jim Clark]

If we wait long enough the lawyers will sort it out. I just hope it is not my lawyer doing the sorting.

Jim

[henw]

I have always said, let's get science involved. Someone's opinion on what vehicle can be rigged to tow has no bearing.
It's the laws of physics that rule.
Existing ratings are inadequate.
If they can rate a quarter back on 10 different attributes with a sum numerical score, it should be possible with tow vehicle/trailer combinations as well.
Acceleration, braking, load capacity, manuvering, stability, etc.
Then, all these debates would be settled with a simple "look up the number."

[Al - K4GLU]

Originally Posted by mutcth

No, I haven't called the insurance company. (I'm towing within the ratings of my van - for now.) Since they'll pay if I'm speeding or commit another offense, they will likely pay if I'm doing something that's actually legal.

Since you're towing within your vehicles ratings your response to what I asked was completely irrelevant.

[Jim Clark]

Originally Posted by henw

I have always said, let's get science involved. Someone's opinion on what vehicle can be rigged to tow has no bearing.
It's the laws of physics that rule.
Existing ratings are inadequate.
If they can rate a quarter back on 10 different attributes with a sum numerical score, it should be possible with tow vehicle/trailer combinations as well.
Acceleration, braking, load capacity, manuvering, stability, etc.
Then, all these debates would be settled with a simple "look up the number."

In reality none of that matters. It is really a liability issue, if you exceed the manufactures rating and an accident occurs it will go to court. The court will decided who was negligent. When the owner of the modified vehicle points at it and says it is your fault Mr. Manufacture the vehicle failed, they are going to say you modified it not our fault. When CanAm dose the work do they accept responsibility for the engineering changes they make or do they have you sign a release? That alone could tell you a lot. Will the modifications standup in court is the real test.

I have no doubt they can modify a vehicle to tow more than a manufactured rates it for and maybe even make it handle correctly. To me the question is do you want to take on the liability that may come with the modifications.

I have a questions what other systems are modified when they uprate these tow vehicles ? Are larger brakes installed, larger alternators, I am curious. There is much more to a tow vehicle than a heavy hitch.

Jim