Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-05-2005, 04:18 AM   #1
Very american 4 a french
 
brunoffrance's Avatar
 
1971 27' Overlander
DUNKERQUE / FRANCE , Nord
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 631
Images: 68
Blog Entries: 9
air suspension

Hi the community;

My project , for the next summer season, is to tow my 27' Overlander with my Ford F150 and to carry , my last buy , an Harley Davidson on the pick-up trailer...
So, when I couple the A/S on the hitch ball, the rear of the F150 get down seriously. With the weight of an HD Heritage Softail, i think it'll be dramatic.
I can set the level horizontaly with my stabiliser chain system but I've heard it was possible to equip the truck with air suspensions, in complementarity of the classic spring suspensions; last year I've taken my m/c YAMAHA like that but now, with an HD, the weight is very different !

Is there anyone who has made this kind of equipment and is it really a right way or
how you do to carry your motorcycle with your airstream ?

thank you, by advance for your future advices .

Bruno.
__________________

__________________
My blog:The american dream in FRANCE:
My pictures in high quality: Pictures on FLICKR:
My videos are on YOU TUBE
My AIRSTREAMLIFE ning
brunoffrance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 09:04 AM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
overlander64's Avatar
 
1964 26' Overlander
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre
Anna , Illinois
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,396
Images: 183
Send a message via Yahoo to overlander64
air suspension

Greetings Bruno!

Quote:
Originally Posted by brunoffrance
Hi the community;

My project , for the next summer season, is to tow my 27' Overlander with my Ford F150 and to carry , my last buy , an Harley Davidson on the pick-up trailer...
So, when I couple the A/S on the hitch ball, the rear of the F150 get down seriously. With the weight of an HD Heritage Softail, i think it'll be dramatic.
I can set the level horizontaly with my stabiliser chain system but I've heard it was possible to equip the truck with air suspensions, in complementarity of the classic spring suspensions; last year I've taken my m/c YAMAHA like that but now, with an HD, the weight is very different !

Is there anyone who has made this kind of equipment and is it really a right way or
how you do to carry your motorcycle with your airstream ?

thank you, by advance for your future advices .

Bruno.
The more important issue (IMHO), is whether you will be exceeding the rear axle weight carrying rating or the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating once your Overlander is hitched - - the rear axle capacity as well as GCVWR information should be in your truck's owners' manual and/or on a placquard mounted to the vehicle. Another factor to consider is that the air springs will quite likely increase the stiffness of the rear suspension which is something that can pose problems with Vintage Airstreams by adding more towing stresses to the coach's chassis.

While air springs such as "Air-Lift" can help to compensate for the "squat" that results from the load in the bed, they do not increase the weight carrying capacity of the chassis. I have Air-Lift springs on my Cadillac only because its very soft suspension has too much movement (prior to adding the air springs, it wasn't uncommon for the wheelwells to contact the edge of the tires as a result of this motion) - - the air springs are inflated to just slightly above their minimum inflation pressue to reduce the suspension movement when towing my Minuet (basically, I follow the instructions for hitching in the Eldorado's owners' manual as it had factory level-ride). The key with the air springs on my Cadillac is to load the tow vehicle and then adjust the air springs prior to hitching the coach - - once the coach's tongue is on the ball mount, all adjustments are made through the weight distribution system. On my Cadillac, I am well below the weight limits as my coach's gross weight is 3,100 pounds (well below the Cadillac's maximum trailer tow rating of 6,000 pounds), and just under its maximum hitch weight of 600 pounds (the Minuet has a gross hitch weight of 525 pounds).

Good luck with your investigation!

Kevin
__________________

__________________
Kevin D. Allen
WBCCI (Lifetime Member)/VAC/Free Wheelers #6359
AIR #827
1964 Overlander International/1999 GMC K2500 Suburban (7400 VORTEC/4.11 Differentials)
1978 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre/1975 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible (8.2 Liter V8/2.70 Final Drive)
overlander64 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 12:08 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
Condoluminum's Avatar
 
1988 25' Excella
Sunnyvale , California
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,858
Images: 13
Send a message via AIM to Condoluminum
Bruno-

During WBCCI event in Pasadena over New Year holiday, we met gentleman traveling full time with Chevy Pickup, Airstream Classic 34' trailer, and Harley Davidson Fat Boy in bed area of pickup truck... WIth his generator, Satellite TV system, flat screen TV and Laptop for WiFi e-mail, he was pretty self-sufficient...

While weights are an issue, F-150 should be able to manage gross weight, as most Harley's are in 350kg range, centered in bed.. Two ideas he employed that I thought were valuable were:
a) He had custom "tall" aluminum shell cover built for pickup bed area, so motorcycle was enclosed and lockable when traveling or not in use.. SImilar to metal boxes used by campers and others, but about 1 meter taller to allow him to roll motorcycle up ramp and onto bed of truck.
b) He also interviewed motorcycle dealers and customizers and concluded that wide metal "mesh" ramp (equal in width to tailgate on truck) was simpler and safer way to load and unload motorcycle... He could power up or walk backwards down ramp without fear of losing balance and tipping. These are also available from motorcycle accessory shops..

We use Gabriel brand "Air Adjustible" rear shock absorbers on Chevy Suburban to manage ride height and ride quality, and they are effective. Approx cost to install pair in rear is $150 in parts and labor...

John McG
__________________
Condoluminum

In Theory, there's no difference between Theory and Practice, but in Practice, there is usually a difference...
Condoluminum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2005, 08:58 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
Coastalview's Avatar
 
2002 27' Safari
Carmel-by-the-Sea , California
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,387
Images: 14
Send a message via AIM to Coastalview Send a message via Yahoo to Coastalview
This topic has been discussed before. Air assisted suspensions systems only help stabilize loaded vehicles, and not increase load capacities. We currently have air bags on the rear of our pickup, from previously having a cab over camper.(now we rather tow our bed than carry it!). The air bags helped with stability, but they don't create the ability to increase your load capacity. I've seen pickups with these air bags over inflated, creating frame cracks at the mounting plates to the frame, because the entire rear pickup weight is entirely transfered to this location. Also it has been mentioned that the utilization of these rear air bags with Airstream towing in mind, can cause the undersirable stiff towing, rather than the soft towing needed to keep these trailers from rattling apart. Depending on what additional weight we carry in the back of our truck and towing our Airstream, I can generally figure what amount of psi. I can inflate the air bags on our truck,(only for stability mind you) without creating a stiff ride for our trailer. Good luck, but I think yor going to be pushing your F-150 pickups gross vehicle weight. Jeff
__________________
AIR: 649
TAC: CA-40
Northern California Airstreamers
Coastalview is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2005, 09:39 AM   #5
Very american 4 a french
 
brunoffrance's Avatar
 
1971 27' Overlander
DUNKERQUE / FRANCE , Nord
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 631
Images: 68
Blog Entries: 9
OK for the informations, you're, as usual, great;
I've visited the web sites of Airlift and firestone anr i 've found an other way, may be very simple in his conception, but apparently, very efficient: "TIMBREN";

http://www.timbren.com

Do you know or to you use that ?
Tell me what you think about this simple rubber suspension .

thank you one more time,

bruno;
__________________
My blog:The american dream in FRANCE:
My pictures in high quality: Pictures on FLICKR:
My videos are on YOU TUBE
My AIRSTREAMLIFE ning
brunoffrance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2005, 12:15 PM   #6
Very american 4 a french
 
brunoffrance's Avatar
 
1971 27' Overlander
DUNKERQUE / FRANCE , Nord
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 631
Images: 68
Blog Entries: 9
Finally, I've made my choice for the TIMBREN kit ;
Very cheap : $143,95 and international air mail shipping: $61,15 at:

www.truckspring.com

I've read other threads on this system on other trailers site web, especially 5th wheels owners and they were very satisfy ;
Easy to install, lifetime guaranty, no trouble with air leaks or so... all the timbren system owners 'ldnt want an air suspension kit instead.
here is the information i want to share to the Airstream Community

Bruno.
__________________
My blog:The american dream in FRANCE:
My pictures in high quality: Pictures on FLICKR:
My videos are on YOU TUBE
My AIRSTREAMLIFE ning
brunoffrance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2005, 03:51 PM   #7
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Rear end suspension modifications "CAUSED" two thirds of "ALL" the loss of control accidents, involving towing an Airstream trailer.

This data was obtained from losses over a 10 year period of time.

Specifically, if you add air shocks, or air bags, to the rear end suspension, and inflate them beyond minimum pressure, you progressively destroy the purpose of the "load equalizing hitch". Overload springs create the same effect. Factory overloads, should generally speaking, be removed.

Any truck scale will demonstrate those facts.

The purpose of the load equalizing hitch is to transfer weight. The addition of overload devices, progressively returns the weight to the coupler, which causes the sway.

The hook up rules are very simple.

1. The trailer should be level, when attached to the tow vehicle.

2. The tow vehicle should be level, when the trailer is attached.

3. The torsion bars must bend at least 3/4 to 1 inch. That effectively tells you that you have moved the tongue and/or trunk weight, correctly. A hitch bar rating too high, will not bend enough, but instead creates a harsh towing hookup ride.

The fall issue of "Airstream Life Magazine" starting on page 46, explains "towing mysteries".

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2005, 06:12 PM   #8
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Oooops.

For those that read the above post, I incorrectly wrote Trailer Life Magazine.

It has been corrected to read Airstream Life Magazine.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2005, 06:52 PM   #9
Site Team
 
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,940
Images: 59
Where can I get a copy of the article, if I missed Airstream Life Magazine?
__________________
markdoane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2005, 07:19 PM   #10
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Subscribe to Airstream Life.

They have back issues available.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2005, 05:23 AM   #11
Very american 4 a french
 
brunoffrance's Avatar
 
1971 27' Overlander
DUNKERQUE / FRANCE , Nord
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 631
Images: 68
Blog Entries: 9
The goal to install an air suspension or a Timbren kit, is to keep the level horizontally for the both vehicles, the Ford F150 and the A/S 27', without increase the work on the stabilizer chains. Even if there is an Harley, in the Pick-up bed, I don't think i overload the Ford when I tow .On the contrary, this system allows the stabilizers to work in good condition, with the hitch ball at the good level, and not too down if not.
I agree that to drive with an overload truck is unsafety but here it's not this situation.

Bruno.
__________________
My blog:The american dream in FRANCE:
My pictures in high quality: Pictures on FLICKR:
My videos are on YOU TUBE
My AIRSTREAMLIFE ning
brunoffrance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2005, 10:50 AM   #12
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
brunoffrance.

I think your examination of the facts, is incomplete.

Take your rig to a truck scale, and report back to this group your rigs weights, with and without using the air bags.

Then that eliminates theories, but produces facts.

The purpose of "all" load equalizing hitches, is exactly that.

It corrects the tongue weight "AND" the excessive weight at the rear of the tow vehicle. The scales will prove that to you.

To artificially level the tow vehicle, in part defeats, the purpose of the hitch. Scales will prove that.

Automatic leveling on cars is the worst. Fortunately, people don't use cars as tow vehicles any more.

The scale tests were done hundreds of times, and proved the point "BEYOND A DOUBT" that adding any form of overload device to the rear end of any tow vihicle, will and does progressively, defeat the purpose of the load equalizing hitch.

The moral of the story.

Get truck scales readings, and then, analyze the hookup.

Anything short of that is pure "guess work," period.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2005, 12:58 PM   #13
Very american 4 a french
 
brunoffrance's Avatar
 
1971 27' Overlander
DUNKERQUE / FRANCE , Nord
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 631
Images: 68
Blog Entries: 9
"Take your rig to a truck scale, and report back to this group your rigs weights, with and without using the air bags."

No need to go on a scale, the rig weight 'll not change with or without air bags so Timbren kit is only rubber "suspensions" , no compressor or heavy materials under the truck

"The purpose of "all" load equalizing hitches, is exactly that.

It corrects the tongue weight "AND" the excessive weight at the rear of the tow vehicle. The scales will prove that to you."

I agree but if you want to keep an horizontal rig you have to tender the 2 chains very hard when you load the truck because the rear is too much down, in spite of the new spings suspensions ; may be it's a factory choice to keep a comfortable truck on roads but not really in load situation.
I'have an European other truck, Ford too ( the first I used to tow ) and the rear was not so down so, no need to hard tender the chain to get an horizontal rig.

Andy, I'm not in an overloaded situation and i don't use air suspensions; The Timbren rubbers limits only the rear truck lowering ; Without that , really I think it'll be very dangerous to drive, because you 'ld touch the road with the rear truck or the tonghe when bad road coatings.

I've driven more than 2500 kilometers , last year and the F150 not overloaded but with an overloaded level is not really safety;I just want to correct that and not load until my F150 last limits...

Bruno;
__________________
My blog:The american dream in FRANCE:
My pictures in high quality: Pictures on FLICKR:
My videos are on YOU TUBE
My AIRSTREAMLIFE ning
brunoffrance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2005, 03:11 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
2006 30' Classic
Farmington , New Mexico
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 822
Images: 14
Andy ---Think you're wasting your time with this fello...obvious he doesn't understand basic Geometry!!!!-------Pieman
__________________

__________________
Mike Lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Experiences with Carrier Air V installation? Sojourner Furnaces, Heaters, Fireplaces & Air Conditioning 10 04-29-2009 08:52 AM
rear air suspensiom problems wb13798 Airstream Motorhome Forums 19 03-03-2003 08:12 AM
Heater and Air Conditioner Jeb Airstream Motorhome Forums 2 10-22-2002 08:45 AM
air horns uncleneal Airstream Motorhome Forums 1 08-16-2002 08:22 AM
Air streams in New York area?!? mitchm71 Our Community 0 07-25-2002 10:33 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.