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Old 07-10-2018, 06:55 PM   #29
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Just cross-posting some information from the Honda Element Owners Club regarding tow ratings that may be useful.
  • 2005 CRV 5spd Manual:
    Austrialia: 1300lbs unbraked, 3300lbs braked
    USA: 1500lbs
  • 2005 CRV 5spt Auto:
    Australia: 1300lbs unbraked tow load, 2700 braked
    USA: 1500lbs.

No special part changes in the OEM parts catalog.

I definitely did closer to the 3300lbs from PA to AZ a few years back on a 5 spd element with an unbraked 5x8 box trailer I also had the back half volumetrically filled with stereo equipment, records, and furniture.

Honda lawyers wanted to cut me off at half that. MPG wasn't anything worth bragging about, and the 13-gallon tank became tedious, but it went up hills and stopped promptly . I left a runway between me and anything ahead of me. My reputation here (if any at all) is of a person whose opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:58 PM   #30
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It is called “Gross Negligence”. In a civil case, you will lose. Without question.

You might want to increase your umbrella policy.

brick


Can I suggest you're both right and talking about separate issues?

Your insurance company almost assuredly won't deny the claim. They'll pay it - they're obligated to. Even drunk drivers. Which makes no logical sense but that's (almost always) the contract (read yours carefully). The odds of you remaining insured by them after that are roughly zero - any higher than zero will be because they charged - and you agreed to pay - multiples more on premium for the policy. And since insurers share a database of claim info, don't expect a cheap ride with other carriers either.

As for a civil suit, anything is possible. A good plaintiff's attorney would hold up the manufacturer's limits as sacred and a good defense attorney would argue to prove the limits were accurate, statistically valid and absolute. Coin toss depending on jury makeup, quality of attorneys, severity of injuries (or death), and too many other factors to count.

If your risk tolerance is low (like mine) you stay within specs. If you enjoy taking risks, do what makes you happy and hope things work out for you.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:41 PM   #31
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Now would be as good a time as any to present this:

This Is Why You Need A Big Truck To Tow Big Things In America

https://jalopnik.com/tow-me-down-1609112611/1609771499
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:57 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cursh View Post
Just cross-posting some information from the Honda Element Owners Club regarding tow ratings that may be useful.


  • 2005 CRV 5spd Manual:

    Austrialia: 1300lbs unbraked, 3300lbs braked

    USA: 1500lbs
  • 2005 CRV 5spt Auto:

    Australia: 1300lbs unbraked tow load, 2700 braked

    USA: 1500lbs.



No special part changes in the OEM parts catalog.



I definitely did closer to the 3300lbs from PA to AZ a few years back on a 5 spd element with an unbraked 5x8 box trailer I also had the back half volumetrically filled with stereo equipment, records, and furniture.



Honda lawyers wanted to cut me off at half that. MPG wasn't anything worth bragging about, and the 13-gallon tank became tedious, but it went up hills and stopped promptly . I left a runway between me and anything ahead of me. My reputation here (if any at all) is of a person whose opinion should be taken with a grain of salt.


I owned a Honda Element, a 2011 Ecamper version. I towed a 350 lb Alumna trailer with two motorbikes weighing about 300 lbs each. I had a beefier hutch. The Element struggled with this load and the clincher was when I tried to brake at the bottom of a steeper incline and the brakes just failed to stop in a safe distance. The Element had a weak payload on top of this.

I’ve owned two Pilots, a 2008 and a 2012, both “4x4”s. I rented two 3500 lb RV trailers. The Pilot struggled up hills, and while it towed both, I never felt I was entirely in control on steep downhill grades. Gas mileage was abysmal, like maybe 11 mpg.

When I bought my 28, I asked around and the consensus was to buy more tow rig than I needed. My 2500 Diesel RAM handles my current 27FB with ease, all with my two boys and Missus and a 500 lbs of dirt bikes in the back.

Granted, it’s a poor daily driver. But as a tow rig, I’ve never regretted buying it. 14-16mpg towing, and the exhaust brake is awesome on steep grades. I’m always passing on the uphill too.

I am sure your MDX would be fine with a 22. If it were me, towing a 25 would have me eyeing an Ecoboost or a RAM eco diesel.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:37 AM   #33
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Depends on how and where you drive. Try it but you may want to upgrade. Plenty of people tow safely with set ups like this, and plenty of people roll F350s with no trailer attached and no other vehicle directly involved.
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:57 AM   #34
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We just made it from Ohio to Montana, and I must’ve said no less than 12 times, I don’t know how people do this in anything but a vehicle designed specifically for towing. I pull a 30 foot flying cloud, with a Silverado 2500 with the Duramax diesel. This trip, and just under 1700 miles so far, made that truck work it’s tail off. From the pulls up the steep grades, to the breaking down them, everything that goes into the design of these two vehicles, their engines, cooling systems, brake systems, steering, the list goes on, are designed to be able to handle the weight behind you. Never once did I feel like the tail was wagging the dog, but again, I shook my head repeatedly at how anyone would make this trip with anything less than what I took. The reality is that once you hit the Western states, and the speed limit is 80, the traffic around you is going to be going at that pace. While any of us don’t need to speed, we do have to take in the consideration that we are driving on these highways, many of them without shoulders, and you have to be able to manage the risk around you. I don’t want to be a Debbie downer either, but there is no way that I would take these trips, in a vehicle that has been modified. Keep in mind that we’re not talking a trip to the local state park here, we are talking the trips that traverse mountains and steep grades. I don’t know the folks in Canada that do the tow modifications that are often referenced here. What I suspect though is that somewhere in their documentation, sales receipts, is a disclaimer that while they’ll make the modification, you assume all of the risk and if things go south, it’s totally on you as the owner and driver. Look, they are in business to make a buck, their pitch is that they can make your vehicle towed ready for a couple thousand dollars versus buying a new vehicle. I think there’s a market for that if you are going to keep yourself local and in unchallenging areas of travel. As The person where the buck stops, you have to make a determination as to how much liability you’re willing to assume, not to mention the risk that you were exposing yourself and your passengers to by potentially overloading the tow vehicle with a trailer and contents that simply overwhelm the systems required to tow safely.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:52 AM   #35
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Pickup was not designed for towing.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:10 AM   #36
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Pickup was not designed for towing.
That was probably true, back when Henry ford first made the model T. But today? Not so much.

Mike
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:19 AM   #37
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Pickup was not designed for towing.
Pickups are designed and marketed for towing.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:27 AM   #38
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I fixed that for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brick1 View Post
Pickups are designed and marketed for towing.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:40 PM   #39
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Todays trucks are certainly ENGINEERED and DESIGNED to tow. It is 2018, not 1918.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:15 PM   #40
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Like I've pointed out before, "You gotta run what you brung..."

And all I have is a Toyota Tacoma CrewMax 4x4 Pickup truck. With the setup I have, the ONLY issue is having to be very patient on long upgrades towing the AS. The rig is very stable on the road, has plenty of power on the flats, brakes and maneuvers well, and accommodates family and doggies just fine. And, like EVERY other Toyota vehicle I have owned, it is reliable, and cheap to keep, as it were. And hey, the silver truck, and a silver Airstream--looks nice as well!

We won't talk about the GMC van I once converted, that I could NOT get common repair parts for in a timely manner, or it's unreliable fuel filter, or impossible access to do routine engine maintenance, etc.

The rest of the time, The Tacoma will do just fine, until I can afford a Tundra. Then I happily get to do all the fiddles and adjustments for stability all over again...but I'll still be driving a Toyota for a long time, while smiling a lot!
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:31 PM   #41
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I disagree. The hitch receiver upgrade makes a substantive improvement to your towing capacity. The towing capacity is not based on the overall suitability of the vehicle but only the receiver capacity.

The towing rating is based on the strength of the receiver in North America. IIRC a minimum of 10% of the trailer weight is the recommendation for the tongue weight. If the vehicle manufacturer engineers and manufacturers a low quality, stamped metal receiver that can only handle 500 lbs then it logically follows that the towing capacity would be 5,000 lbs.

However, if you increase the strength of the receiver to a Class IV (which is capable of handling a WD hitch with 1,000 tongue weight) then, if you stay with the 10% tongue weight rule of thumb, your trailer weight could be up to 10,000 lbs and it could be towed safely (i.e. avoiding sway at up to 65 mph), if loaded correctly.
What flavor do you prefer...😂

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Old 07-11-2018, 04:09 PM   #42
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Oh yea... with soft suspension (half ton trucks), high center of gravity, long rear overhang, terrible tires... they are "ENGINEERED and DESIGNED to tow"!

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Todays trucks are certainly ENGINEERED and DESIGNED to tow. It is 2018, not 1918.
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