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Old 07-07-2010, 09:30 PM   #1
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'51 Willys Overland Wagon

Well looks like it is official, sunday if everything goes right I will be making a short road trip to pick up this ole tank.



It is a 51 Willys Wagon, destened to be my next tow vehcile.

The plan is to drive it for the next few months while getting my other truck running again, then I am going to tear into the willys this fall.

The plan is to build a brand new fram under the willys, to run Wrangler Leafs, a pair of Dana 60's that I have been saving for such a project, 35x12.50R16 BfGoodies, a NV4500 mated to a NP205, and a Chevy 327 built up with Vortec L31 heads and a Big Block TBI feeding it.

I ran some numbers on Desktop Dyno tonight, and the engine is looking pretty spot on. Here is the graph:



And here is the table



It looks like the motor will make 349 HP @ 5000 RPM and 437 FT/LBS torque @ 2500 The best part is from 2000 - 4000 RPM you wont see the torque drop below 400 FT/LBS, and at the end of the band it is still pulling almost 300 ft/lbs of torque turning 6000 RPM

I am installing Excel on my new pc as I am typing this, going to do the calcluations on the pulling power in the gears next. I hope it makes for some good technical discussion.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:09 PM   #2
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So I did the math, and it looks like Cruizing at 65 MPH I will be pulling 1947.45 RPM, Kind of funny to see that "technically" in 5th gear at 6000 RPM the Willys would be doing 200MPH! I know it will never go that fast, but still great for giggles. The nice thing is though I should haveall the pulling power I need to get over a hill, because at 6000 RPM is where my peak HP is, and according to this if I plant it in 2nd gear at 6000 R's the engine will be sitting right where it makes 339 HP. Granted you will have to compensate for altitude losses and so on, but its nice to know I will have a setup that can really rock n roll with the gear ratios I am running.

the 2nd set of numbers show what the truck will do in 4 low.

If I floor boarded it at 6 grand, in 5th gear, the truck would still do 100 MPH, that is funny. I am seriously thinknig that the 203 doubler may make an appearence because it would cut the turns in half yet again, but I really need to ask myself if its nessacary.

I think the combo I am running here will make for a good setup, and should have more than enough power to pull hills and go over the river and through the woods.

Mostly I am planning on having a 27-31 foot 'stream behind it, so going to need that power to pull with.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:10 PM   #3
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Love all that homework -- it'll be one kick ass looking tow vehicle. The only complaint you'll get from others on these forums is its short wheelbase (if I'm remembering these things correctly).

Do you have a trailer length in mind? Caravel? Globe Trotter? Wee Wind?
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:35 PM   #4
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I've had several of these vehicles and I like your plan. They are a little narrow and would handle better with a shorter trailer, but add some power steering and good brakes and I think you should be good to go.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:36 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by bredlo View Post
Love all that homework -- it'll be one kick ass looking tow vehicle. The only complaint you'll get from others on these forums is its short wheelbase (if I'm remembering these things correctly).

Do you have a trailer length in mind? Caravel? Globe Trotter? Wee Wind?
I am looking at a 27-31' International, allthough I do have a lot more homework to do there. Ultimately the only thing left I think is going to be the shell when I get through with it, because im planning on gutting it and building a new frame from scratch then putting my own interior in.

The stock Wheel base on the Willys is 104" I am going to move the rear axle 2 " back, and stretch the wheel wells 4" back to make everything look right. As well I am moving the front axle 4" forward, this will give me a wheel base of 110" which is the same as a 73-91 Chevy Blazer.

A jeep Wagoneer only has a 108" wheel base, and I have seen them towing a longer airstream so I think I should be in pretty good shape. I have done a lot of towing with a blazer that had a 468 CID big block (back when I was complaining about 2.00 a gallon gas!)

For a color scheme I am going to paint the willys a metalic brown, with orange pinstripes, and the engine, tranny and T case will be orange. I am also thinking on the airstream that I will paint the body stripe orange with brown pinstriping to match, and use orange awnings.

I am figuring darker colors on the interior, I am a big fan of dark walnut. instead of all aluminum skin on the interior I want to use hardwood plywood and stain it with a nice stain, except a strip of aluminum that runs down the center of the celing, and stainless steel backsplashes in the kitchen and bath.

I also have a little somethin somethin specail planned with the wheel wells and axles, give you a little hint, it will have the same 35" tires as the Willys, and it will have wheel wells made from 1/8" plate from a big truck, and air ride suspension to keep it smooth over bumpy roads.
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Old 07-07-2010, 10:39 PM   #6
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I've had several of these vehicles and I like your plan. They are a little narrow and would handle better with a shorter trailer, but add some power steering and good brakes and I think you should be good to go.
Exactly! with the Dana 60's I will have 4 wheel discs, and the rear is a full floater, they are both 8 lugs. I am not only running a newer power steering box out of a 1 ton chevy, but it is going to be configured in a cross over setup to keep the steering tight. I am also going to be running the hydraboost out of the 1 ton. So I should have plenty of braking power.

I will also be running discs on the trailer.
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Old 07-08-2010, 05:26 AM   #7
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Very cool wagon! You are going to find a sufficiently old and very cool trailer to pull behind that, I hope?

Maggie
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Old 07-08-2010, 09:52 AM   #8
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Very cool wagon! You are going to find a sufficiently old and very cool trailer to pull behind that, I hope?

Maggie
Maggie, I am shooting for a 1970's model trailer, reason being first they seem to be the most affordable, and second, the trip I am taking is going to encounter some not so friendly terrain, and my rebuild plans for said trailer are very extreme.

I would hate to take a vintage airstream that are already getting hard enough to find and hack it up to turn it into my expeidtion trailer.
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Old 07-08-2010, 10:38 AM   #9
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You may say its comparing apples to oranges but here goes: my '73 27' throws the TV front end all squirrely in the corners at interstate speeds being pulled by my 5500 pound std cab short bed F-150 w/ stiff rear leaf helper springs installed...

I think* your Willys' curb weight of 3300 pounds will suffer nearly the same even with heavied up frame and the 327... My dream trailer that I failed to get was a twin axle 23', I'd sure like to guide you towards that instead of the long framed 70's trailers - plus remember an AS was never meant to be a tail dragger. Maybe Texas Interstates are friendlier curve-wise but I felt some real fear clumped in traffic at 60+ MPH...
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
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I'd sure like to guide you towards that instead...
...but you can't since your front end of your TV is currently 3 inches off the pavement.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:13 AM   #11
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If I'm not mistaken those have the old cam and bellcrank steering. If yours is still stock, I would at least do the Saginaw conversion before pulling a long trailer at speed.
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:15 AM   #12
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Wabbiteer it shouldn't do that with a WD setup properly dialed in. What kind of hitch are u running?
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Old 07-08-2010, 11:24 AM   #13
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Random thoughts here:
I wonder at what point during an upgrade as complex as this Willys is, that it becomes more economical and logical to simply retrofit a Willy's body onto, say, a newer Suburban.

Theoretically, wouldn't stretching and mating an old body onto an known successful tow vehicle ultimately be more efficient than taking the old car and then replacing everything? Assuming one kept most of the cabin intact and devised a way to graft the body panels on, it seems possible one could even keep the newer seats, AC, airbags and safety belts of the newer vehicle as well while still appearing to be an old vehicle from the exterior. Best of both worlds?
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:14 PM   #14
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Here's my vote for your trailer, BTW. I love matching tow vehicle and trailer eras, and this '53 Clipper would look fabulous behind your Jeep. Plus, at only 21' long (lighter than what you're currently considering) and already gutted, you wouldn't have to feel bad about going crazy on it.

Silver Streak Trailer '53 Clipper like Airstream
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