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Old 07-09-2010, 10:26 AM   #29
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And what is the trip you are planning on taking when these seemingly-exhausting projects are completed, MrBeast?

Maggie
Final route TBD but this is what I have in mind.



I figure taking 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 months to do it. Should be a ton of fun.

Its a little over 11,000 miles.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:32 AM   #30
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Wow! That's quite a trip, and I agree it should be tons of fun!

I am firmly of the belief that the planning is nearly as much fun as the trip itself, so you have plenty of that kind of fun ahead of you, too.

Keep us posted.

Maggie
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:46 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by doug&maggie View Post
Wow! That's quite a trip, and I agree it should be tons of fun!

I am firmly of the belief that the planning is nearly as much fun as the trip itself, so you have plenty of that kind of fun ahead of you, too.

Keep us posted.

Maggie
I agree, I have been doing a ton of reading, and watching about every video I can find on the subject. It is also going to let me visit a lot of places I havent seen in a long time and show them to my girlfriend who hasnt seen much of anything, so that will be really neat and educational for her.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:51 AM   #32
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Thanks, and if you all ever make it down my way feel free to stop in and say hi.
We were down your way camping on the beach at PINS just a couple of months ago, and probably will be again later this month if the tar will stay away that long. Come on down and visit us, we'll probably be the only 1963 Airstream Overlander boondocking on the beach!



As far as your choice of Airstreams go, I can really appreciate that you don't want to take one of the older, more "classic" ones apart and deprive others of the chance to restore, but you can just about always find one that is already completely gutted and not a great candidate for restoration, in almost any era (though the early 50s ones are definitely less common). I would think that if you found an already gutted 58-63 model (or a heavily altered one like the one you linked above), then that would be a great trailer for you. Even a 64-68 would work nicely for you. Those were a little bit simpler than the 70s and later models, and lighter too, although once you take everything out, the original spec'd trailer weight probably won't matter that much. So in fact, at 26' and tandem axle the one you linked above would probably work out perfect for you, although the asking price is way too high.

Anyway, it sounds like a great project and an amazing trip. Please do keep us updated on both the Willys project, and your eventual Airstream project.

-Marcus
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Old 07-09-2010, 12:27 PM   #33
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Since this is now an 'illustrated' discussion, in fair disclosure one item that just dawned on me: The pre-Airstream Bilstein nitrogen pre-charged shocks changes the whole tow picture, those fronts took most of my 200 pound body weight to compress one shock (the backs did not budge w/ me hanging off them) and that may be a LOT of the 'zero gravity' effect making TV want to track straight in corners. I see a more conventional front shock valved for towing in my future...

**What flavor shock are you planning on?**

I appreciate your attention to detail & willingness to 'show your work' and I thank you on the detailed response, this is not an invite to show your work again but just clean information to better help look at your project. Specifics on the F-150: 1999 120" WB 4x4 w/ Micheline load range "E" (#3195) 265x70x17 tires, GVWR 6300 F/R GAWR 3680/3550) CGVWR 11,700...

Check your 'Visual Micrometer' calibration date A tape measure a minute ago calls it 54" inches from ball to axle. The trailer is 4400 pounds empty with hitch weight of 460 pounds. Calculated 'lift' on front axle is 200 pounds "Static" load.... Get heaves or hollows at speed and that 27' to 31' lever may have its way with your Willy. Yes, still urging you to nab a nice 23' twin axle - ESPECIALLY if you're going to Alaska

I thought my 265/70/17s were tall at ~31" --- A 315/75R-16 is a pretty tall tire. Doing the math, it has a section width of roughly 12.4" & 34.6" tall so that leaves 8"+ flexible sidewall on the pavement. Unless you have the fronts inflated rock hard you will have tail-wagging-the-dog oscillations built in - ready to be amplified by any other shifting of sprung weight. That wag is quenched in my 6-inch sidewalls by adding 10-12psi but ride quality suffers greatly.

Your plan to re-frame ANY extreme Aistream is spot on - the most understated comment I made was the Airstream is no tail-dragger with only token skid plates. The axle mounting plates stiffness is weak, the tails has an inability to be dragged without wracking the ladder frame, moving the shell and shearing rivets and loosening shell attachment points are all symptoms that get misattributed too easily. But you will still need a soft suspension due to the way the liners & ribs end up in some fashion anchoring 90% of the interior built-ins...

With tall tires and the short distance between axle and hitch maybe this should be called a Tug Vehicle; you're almost clean slate setting up rear frame so you might look into an Air Bag - lever system built in to keep shocks & vibration being transmitted via BOTH directions (AIR SAFE or Shocker, etc.)
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:29 PM   #34
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Well, I jumped early, drove up to Victora and brought home a new friend.



(Thats the guy I bought it from in the pic, I could tell he was pretty heartbroke to see it go.)

I backed it in the driveway about 9:45



The big news is, I picked up the 2nd Willys and will be going back up some time in the next 2 weeks to get it!





It has a lot more cancer than the brown one, but it looks to be fixable. I am going to atleast get the rust cut out of it and get the body back to being 100% then I will probably stuff the motor out of Big Brown in it and decide what to do with it from there, I may finish fixing it up and give it to my dad or my younger brother. No idea yet, but we shall see.

The Starter on the Brown one is toast, I can see the housing seperated, so I am going to see about getting another one tomorrow, if I can I should be able to get it up and running.
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:49 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by utee94 View Post
We were down your way camping on the beach at PINS just a couple of months ago, and probably will be again later this month if the tar will stay away that long. Come on down and visit us, we'll probably be the only 1963 Airstream Overlander boondocking on the beach!



As far as your choice of Airstreams go, I can really appreciate that you don't want to take one of the older, more "classic" ones apart and deprive others of the chance to restore, but you can just about always find one that is already completely gutted and not a great candidate for restoration, in almost any era (though the early 50s ones are definitely less common). I would think that if you found an already gutted 58-63 model (or a heavily altered one like the one you linked above), then that would be a great trailer for you. Even a 64-68 would work nicely for you. Those were a little bit simpler than the 70s and later models, and lighter too, although once you take everything out, the original spec'd trailer weight probably won't matter that much. So in fact, at 26' and tandem axle the one you linked above would probably work out perfect for you, although the asking price is way too high.

Anyway, it sounds like a great project and an amazing trip. Please do keep us updated on both the Willys project, and your eventual Airstream project.

-Marcus
I agree the price is way high on that one, I suspect he thinks he has aluminum gold. And it just aint so!
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Old 07-09-2010, 10:58 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Wabbiteer View Post
Since this is now an 'illustrated' discussion, in fair disclosure one item that just dawned on me: The pre-Airstream Bilstein nitrogen pre-charged shocks changes the whole tow picture, those fronts took most of my 200 pound body weight to compress one shock (the backs did not budge w/ me hanging off them) and that may be a LOT of the 'zero gravity' effect making TV want to track straight in corners. I see a more conventional front shock valved for towing in my future...

**What flavor shock are you planning on?**

I appreciate your attention to detail & willingness to 'show your work' and I thank you on the detailed response, this is not an invite to show your work again but just clean information to better help look at your project. Specifics on the F-150: 1999 120" WB 4x4 w/ Micheline load range "E" (#3195) 265x70x17 tires, GVWR 6300 F/R GAWR 3680/3550) CGVWR 11,700...

Check your 'Visual Micrometer' calibration date A tape measure a minute ago calls it 54" inches from ball to axle. The trailer is 4400 pounds empty with hitch weight of 460 pounds. Calculated 'lift' on front axle is 200 pounds "Static" load.... Get heaves or hollows at speed and that 27' to 31' lever may have its way with your Willy. Yes, still urging you to nab a nice 23' twin axle - ESPECIALLY if you're going to Alaska

I thought my 265/70/17s were tall at ~31" --- A 315/75R-16 is a pretty tall tire. Doing the math, it has a section width of roughly 12.4" & 34.6" tall so that leaves 8"+ flexible sidewall on the pavement. Unless you have the fronts inflated rock hard you will have tail-wagging-the-dog oscillations built in - ready to be amplified by any other shifting of sprung weight. That wag is quenched in my 6-inch sidewalls by adding 10-12psi but ride quality suffers greatly.

Your plan to re-frame ANY extreme Aistream is spot on - the most understated comment I made was the Airstream is no tail-dragger with only token skid plates. The axle mounting plates stiffness is weak, the tails has an inability to be dragged without wracking the ladder frame, moving the shell and shearing rivets and loosening shell attachment points are all symptoms that get misattributed too easily. But you will still need a soft suspension due to the way the liners & ribs end up in some fashion anchoring 90% of the interior built-ins...

With tall tires and the short distance between axle and hitch maybe this should be called a Tug Vehicle; you're almost clean slate setting up rear frame so you might look into an Air Bag - lever system built in to keep shocks & vibration being transmitted via BOTH directions (AIR SAFE or Shocker, etc.)
I have decided for sure that my as will have Air Ride suspension for a few reasons, First because it will take the bumps and even them out, next because when I park I can deflate the bags allowing the trailer to sit on the jounce bumpers thus giving it more of a rigid "foundation" when parked, as well it will bring it down closer to the ground so it isnt such a climb to get into it.

I do not have the time to get after it tonight, but tomorrow I will do all the measurements and the math over again because it is fairly simple.

From my experince driving wreckers when you steer the front wheels and the truck goes straight, that means you have too much weight on the back, and this can be greatly effected by sucking my wheel lift all the way in. If I am hauling a big ford F-350 crew cab dually, I have to suck the wheel lift all the way in, if I dont the truck pops a wheelie if I hit bumps, and in gravel it will just keep going straight.

It is the equasion for weight loading on a wrecker that I am using to figure out the upward lift on a tow vehicle.

Anyhow, tomorrow I will do the math and use the measurements from both vehicles to see what the difference is.

Also once I get the willys running I am going to run it over to the local scales and get a front and rear axle weight to see what it weighs in at it will be interesting to compare once it is complete with the new components sitting under it.
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Old 07-10-2010, 12:12 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Wabbiteer View Post
I appreciate your attention to detail & willingness to 'show your work' and I thank you on the detailed response, this is not an invite to show your work again but just clean information to better help look at your project. Specifics on the F-150: 1999 120" WB 4x4 w/ Micheline load range "E" (#3195) 265x70x17 tires, GVWR 6300 F/R GAWR 3680/3550) CGVWR 11,700...

Check your 'Visual Micrometer' calibration date A tape measure a minute ago calls it 54" inches from ball to axle. The trailer is 4400 pounds empty with hitch weight of 460 pounds. Calculated 'lift' on front axle is 200 pounds "Static" load.... Get heaves or hollows at speed and that 27' to 31' lever may have its way with your Willy. Yes, still urging you to nab a nice 23' twin axle - ESPECIALLY if you're going to Alaska

I thought my 265/70/17s were tall at ~31" --- A 315/75R-16 is a pretty tall tire. Doing the math, it has a section width of roughly 12.4" & 34.6" tall so that leaves 8"+ flexible sidewall on the pavement. Unless you have the fronts inflated rock hard you will have tail-wagging-the-dog oscillations built in - ready to be amplified by any other shifting of sprung weight. That wag is quenched in my 6-inch sidewalls by adding 10-12psi but ride quality suffers greatly.
I called the tounge weight 600lbs to account for a loaded trailer.





And at 600 lbs, it is only about 20 lbs difference in upward force on the front end.

I am thinking that there is another X factor with your truck because when doing my initial plan I was comparing the wheel base to my old 72 blazer, and I towed a ton of stuff with it.





I was always pulling trailers with it, and we are not talking light trailers, I am talking about trailers with bobcats, mini escavators, and my old 25' camp trailer.

I never had trouble towing with it, and it has a 110" wheel base.

I think what helped me was the big block in the front end weighed 775 lbs or so, and the lift springs helped as well. But really it was about 5500lbs, and I towed trailers with it that weighed 16,000 lbs. I was fine as long as I could keep the tounge weight less than 800 or so.

I have a suspicion that your shocks may be the X factor, shocks shouldnt be that hard to compress. I know on the blazer I was running the shocks that came with the superlift kit, and while stiff, they were not that stiff, I was able to push them into place with one hand to install them and thread the bolt through the hole with the other.
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Old 07-10-2010, 03:14 PM   #38
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Howdy Willys fan.............I AM ONE TOO! We pull our 62 bambi with a 1950 Willys 6 cly.
Jeepster.....We get a bunch of "thumbs up".....pics. are in our Profile on the left side of this screen...click on Images: 8
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:24 PM   #39
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Hi, talking about Bobcats and Jeeps; I was doing an addition and needed a Bobcat. I rented one and I think the trailer they put it on weighed more than the Bobcat did. I towed it home with my 1978 Jeep CJ-5. [83" wheel base] It was just across town and on side streets only. On your diagram, are you taking consideration for a WD hitch that might be about a foot from the receiver to the ball?
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Old 07-11-2010, 01:59 AM   #40
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Hi, talking about Bobcats and Jeeps; I was doing an addition and needed a Bobcat. I rented one and I think the trailer they put it on weighed more than the Bobcat did. I towed it home with my 1978 Jeep CJ-5. [83" wheel base] It was just across town and on side streets only. On your diagram, are you taking consideration for a WD hitch that might be about a foot from the receiver to the ball?
I am taking a hitch into consideration that extends 8" past my bumper. If my WD hitch sticks out further I will redrill the pin hole to suck it in.

I bet that was a wild ride in that CJ, those things are pretty squirly to begin with.
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Old 07-11-2010, 01:59 AM   #41
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Howdy Willys fan.............I AM ONE TOO! We pull our 62 bambi with a 1950 Willys 6 cly.
Jeepster.....We get a bunch of "thumbs up".....pics. are in our Profile on the left side of this screen...click on Images: 8
Man that is a sweet setup you have.
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Old 07-11-2010, 01:42 PM   #42
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Well looks like it is official, sunday if everything goes right I will be making a short road trip to pick up this ole tank.



.
That brings back memories.

When I was a kid (6 to be exact), my dad bought the first 4x4 Jeep wagon shipped to Washington state. It was a 49 and was the only color available that year (maroon with wood grain look painted panels). I can remember pulling our friends Jeep out of the sand on the ocean beach with it. We were able to go where he couldn't because of the wagon's longer wheel base.

In 56 he replaced it with a new two tone green one. We pulled our 56 15' Starfire TT with it. It was the vehicle I learned to drive in. The family 57 Citroen DS19 was too good for me to drive. I had some fun high school dates in the 56 Wagon.

After I was away in College he traded it in on a green 63 Wagoneer.

Regards,

Ken
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