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Old 07-08-2010, 01:26 PM   #15
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You may say its comparing apples to oranges but here goes: my '73 27' throws the TV front end all squirrely in the corners at interstate speeds being pulled by my 5500 pound std cab short bed F-150 w/ stiff rear leaf helper springs installed...

I think* your Willys' curb weight of 3300 pounds will suffer nearly the same even with heavied up frame and the 327... My dream trailer that I failed to get was a twin axle 23', I'd sure like to guide you towards that instead of the long framed 70's trailers - plus remember an AS was never meant to be a tail dragger. Maybe Texas Interstates are friendlier curve-wise but I felt some real fear clumped in traffic at 60+ MPH...
This is a very very apples and oranges comparison.

First, I am adding a pair of Dana 60's they weigh twice what the stock Jeep Dana 30's weigh.

Second Going from the Hurricaine I4 to a Small Blcok Chevy is also going to double the weight in the front end.

Third, The new frame is going to weigh 2.5x what the stock frame weighed, and it will be far superior and stronger.

Fourth, at the front of that frame there will be a winch and bumper constructed of 1/4" plate.

Fifth, the interior will be getting new seats, and everything will be getting coated with bed liner, and a full interior will be installed, while a small gain in weight, I estimate about 200 lbs worth of stuff said and done including the new AC system.

Sixth, it is all about levers.

Your ford has a pretty long overhang in the back.



As compared to the Willys,



Keep in mind as well that my rear axle is going to be pushed 2" further back.

Now I am not standing here with either truck to measure, so I am going to use the "Visual Micrometer" I used the diameter of the rim, a known size to get an aproximate distance from the center of the axle to the hitch.

Here is how the math stacks up on the Ford.



And for the Willys:



Thus the willys actually has better weight distrubution than the F-150.

Seventh, weight up front counter balancing weight in the rear. Your F-150 is a 2wd with a front axle that is comprised of light weight stamped steel sheet metal arms.

My willys will have a Dana 60 that weighs about 350lbs more than the front suspension of your ford.

Next, the 327 tips the scales at about 575lbs the ford 5.4 Modular about 450lbs.

Then this brings me to tires, the truck I am basing my specs off of is a 2003 Ford F-150, in 03 Ford ran a 265/70r16 Looking at a good tire in that size, a Good Year Wrangler, you find that it has a load rating of 2271 LBS.

On the Willys I will be running a BF Goodrich Mud terrian KM2 in a 315/75R16, the tire has a load rating of 3195 lbs.

Thus the Tires I am running on the Willy's will have a much better ability to carry the weight placed upon them. I am sure that some of the issues you are having with stability have to do with the fact that your F-150's tires are opperating at close to thier maximum capacity with the trailer in tow.

Another issue is brakes, I have done brakes on an F-150 of your body style, they have a 1 piece rotor and hub assembly, the bearings are tiny, the brakes are tiny, the rotors are tiny. The rotors I am running on the Willys are the same found on a 73-91 GM 1 ton with a straight axle.

You are right about one thing, with a stock willys id be coocoo for coco puffs. In the end I am going to have a rig that weighs 5500-6000 lbs, and that is built to get the job done, and it will do it with out the white knuckle experince.
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:37 PM   #16
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Random thoughts here:
I wonder at what point during an upgrade as complex as this Willys is, that it becomes more economical and logical to simply retrofit a Willy's body onto, say, a newer Suburban.

Theoretically, wouldn't stretching and mating an old body onto an known successful tow vehicle ultimately be more efficient than taking the old car and then replacing everything? Assuming one kept most of the cabin intact and devised a way to graft the body panels on, it seems possible one could even keep the newer seats, AC, airbags and safety belts of the newer vehicle as well while still appearing to be an old vehicle from the exterior. Best of both worlds?
In essence that is what I am doing, I am taking a collection of solid parts that I already have, (the dana 60's, NV4500, 205 T case, &engine) and I am building a new frame based on the design of the willys frame, that will be much stouter and stronger than the stock willys chasis, or even than a stock suburban chasis for that matter, the willys frame is not a terribly complex shape, and I will completly design the frame in autocad before I cut a single piece of steel.

It will be much easier to do it this way than to try to graft the body onto a suburban or blazer, because then you would be working with a body and a chasis that were never even being close to being designed to work togeather.

Conversly speaking the materials for the new frame are going to cost me about 700.00 and I already have all of the tools in my Welding shop to put them togeather, and I am a very seasoned welder. So I am confident in my ability to make it all work.

I have a 7x14" capacity bandsaw that will be doing the majority of the cutting for the new frame members, I can do simple miters with the saw, and I will make jigs where ever a compound miter is nessacary.

The best part is that the frame when finished will be very rigid and very stout, and it will make everything work flawlessly.

Compared to trying to do a body swap what I am doing is very very simple, it just requires the skill to build the frame which is why many folks choose to go the long way around.

As far as air bags, I dont like them, for the simple reason I do not like the idea of things blowing up in my face and I dont want the electrical nightmare that would come with trying to install them and make them work correctly, Instead I am going to install good seat belts, and make sure the brakes and everything else are up to snuff and call it good.
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:38 PM   #17
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If I'm not mistaken those have the old cam and bellcrank steering. If yours is still stock, I would at least do the Saginaw conversion before pulling a long trailer at speed.
I am using the box out of a 78 Chevy 1 ton and the Hydraboost for the brakes.
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:43 PM   #18
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Here's my vote for your trailer, BTW. I love matching tow vehicle and trailer eras, and this '53 Clipper would look fabulous behind your Jeep. Plus, at only 21' long (lighter than what you're currently considering) and already gutted, you wouldn't have to feel bad about going crazy on it.

Silver Streak Trailer '53 Clipper like Airstream
That thing would be cool, but the only problem is that it would be 1840 miles one way to get it, then considering the frame is toast, that means the alxes are probably as well, me thinks that could make Chevy Chase'es vacation look like a good time...

Also I wont be buying a trailer until next spring or summer, this fall and winter is going to be dedicated to getting the Willys on its new frame and getting it running like a top, then when it is done I will switch gears and get going on a trailer. I figure there is no use buying one until the Willys project is finished and out of the shop.
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:50 PM   #19
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Bredlo, here is one that id consider, I think it would look mighty fine behind the Willys

1966 22 ft airstream land yacht
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Old 07-08-2010, 01:58 PM   #20
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Bredlo, here is one that id consider, I think it would look mighty fine behind the Willys

1966 22 ft airstream land yacht
That is longer than 22', and it's not a 66. I'd say it's a 63 Overlander, 26'. I know that model pretty well.

I love the Willys and like your plan, please keep us updated on the Willys progress and your Airstream mods too, as soon as you get one.

Good luck!
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Old 07-08-2010, 02:13 PM   #21
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That is longer than 22', and it's not a 66. I'd say it's a 63 Overlander, 26'. I know that model pretty well.

I love the Willys and like your plan, please keep us updated on the Willys progress and your Airstream mods too, as soon as you get one.

Good luck!
-Marcus
Thanks, and if you all ever make it down my way feel free to stop in and say hi.
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:44 PM   #22
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I like the idea of more "vintager" with your trailer, and shorter, for your wheelbase. With the 70s, as I understand it, maybe by 69, quality of materials dropped for a while, and the trailers got heavier. No offense intended for 70s vintage owners. BUT -- I got in under the wire on weight and workmanship with my 68 Trade Wind 24'. My choice would not go later than 68, maybe early 69 as stock was used up with model changes. One of these days, I want a 57 or 58 Flying Cloud or Bubble or Bambi and a lighter tow vehicle, too.

Anyway, love the Willys, and welcome to Airstreaming.

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Maggie, I am shooting for a 1970's model trailer, reason being first they seem to be the most affordable, and second, the trip I am taking is going to encounter some not so friendly terrain, and my rebuild plans for said trailer are very extreme.

I would hate to take a vintage airstream that are already getting hard enough to find and hack it up to turn it into my expeidtion trailer.
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Old 07-08-2010, 04:47 PM   #23
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That is SO COOL!


[QUOTE=MrBeast;869050]Well looks like it is official, sunday if everything goes right I will be making a short road trip to pick up this ole tank.



It is a 51 Willys Wagon, destened to be my next tow vehcile.
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:35 PM   #24
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[QUOTE=IndyAnne;869349]That is SO COOL!


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Well looks like it is official, sunday if everything goes right I will be making a short road trip to pick up this ole tank.



It is a 51 Willys Wagon, destened to be my next tow vehcile.
They sure dont build em like they used to do they?
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Old 07-08-2010, 06:44 PM   #25
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I like the idea of more "vintager" with your trailer, and shorter, for your wheelbase. With the 70s, as I understand it, maybe by 69, quality of materials dropped for a while, and the trailers got heavier. No offense intended for 70s vintage owners. BUT -- I got in under the wire on weight and workmanship with my 68 Trade Wind 24'. My choice would not go later than 68, maybe early 69 as stock was used up with model changes. One of these days, I want a 57 or 58 Flying Cloud or Bubble or Bambi and a lighter tow vehicle, too.

Anyway, love the Willys, and welcome to Airstreaming.
That is something I am considering but at the same time by the time I am done the only thing original will be the shell.

The frame, guts, cabinets everything else is gonna get tossed in favor of my own innards because im a crazy perfectionist and well I want it my way.

Something that is going to be neat is I am also going to build a ham radio shack into the trailer, so I will be doing quite a bit of talking on the radio during the trip.
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Old 07-08-2010, 07:34 PM   #26
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Apples and Oranges?

Hi, I like your idea with the Willys. I once, for a short while, owned a 1950 Willys convertable. It had a four cylinder engine, three speed overdrive trans, and was two wheel drive. The frame on it was built like a railroad track; It was very thick, had side rails, and an "X" frame. Very strong. Maybe your's being a wagon, versus convertable, had a weak frame? I was going to install a 292 V-8 Ford engine and Ford-O-Matic trans, but wasn't going to fit well. Then I was going to instal a 283 V-8 Chevrolet with a cast iron Powerglide. Both choices required the use of a torch, so I sold it as a basket case. You can see, by what I was going to do, that this was a few Moons ago.
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:54 PM   #27
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Hi, I like your idea with the Willys. I once, for a short while, owned a 1950 Willys convertable. It had a four cylinder engine, three speed overdrive trans, and was two wheel drive. The frame on it was built like a railroad track; It was very thick, had side rails, and an "X" frame. Very strong. Maybe your's being a wagon, versus convertable, had a weak frame? I was going to install a 292 V-8 Ford engine and Ford-O-Matic trans, but wasn't going to fit well. Then I was going to instal a 283 V-8 Chevrolet with a cast iron Powerglide. Both choices required the use of a torch, so I sold it as a basket case. You can see, by what I was going to do, that this was a few Moons ago.
The stock willys frame was sufficiant for doing what you needed to do with a stock willys, but you start throwing V8 power at them, and you start adding bigger tires and towing behind them the frame gets anemic in a hurry. Many people just go and box the frame in, and this is fine however, doing so is very time consuming, and it doesnt produce the streingth a new frame will.

Those old willys convertables were pretty cool. Would have been very cool with a 283. I have seen some people turn those into 4x4's they actually look pretty neat.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:40 AM   #28
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And what is the trip you are planning on taking when these seemingly-exhausting projects are completed, MrBeast?

Maggie
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