2500 TV Gasser vs Diesel

[knowltontr]

Originally Posted by Joe_A

We are looking for a 2500 TV Chevy Ford or Dodge.
I prefer a Gas truck but having trouble finding a GAS in the higher trim levels.
Not sure the premium being paid for the Diesel is worth the extra costs of the truck plus the ongoing higher fuel cost.

However a local dealer is offering a great deal on a new 2019 LTZ Duramax.
Trucks that are 2 years older are the same price that is being offered.

I am able to find more RAM 2500 in Gas / Hemi pre owned in my area
not wanting to go older then 2017.

All input welcome

I upgraded from a F-150 super crew to a 2500 Duramax in 2016. I have never regretted it. Pulls my 2015 30’ FC Bunky like its not even there. I average 12-15 MPG pulling and 17-22 without trailer. I love it! I have not noticed all the extra maintenance costs that everyone talks about. I would pull the trigger on the duramax ASAP before someone else does.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

I cannot even begin to comprehend the size of a battery that will allow a 350 mile range towing 10,000.

Larry

With the advent of ceramic batteries.....not as big as you think.
Also, you may not have a 350- 500 mile range, but the recharge time maybe down to minutes; so over, say a lunch break of 30 minutes, you would recharge the truck for your afternoon drive.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony

[knowltontr]

]I upgraded from a F-150 super crew to a 2500 Duramax in 2016. I have never regretted it. Pulls my 2015 30’ FC Bunky like its not even there. I average 12-15 MPG pulling and 17-22 without the trailer. I love it! I have not noticed all the extra maintenance costs that everyone talks about. I do all the oil can filter changes myself. I would pull the trigger on the duramax ASAP before someone else does.

[Cap-N-Red]

We pull our 2005 Airstream (28’ Classic) with a GMC 2500HD Duramax / Allison. Or first truck was a 2005 of the same type. We updated to the 2018 when the ‘05 had 300,000+ miles on it. The new truck gets way better fuel mileage than the older one and has much more power. At or below 65 mph I get 14 - 14.5 mpg pulling the trailer and approx. 24 - 25 not pulling anything. I would say go with the ‘19 Chev. Duramax / Allison.

[Gerry72]

I have a Ford 250 V10 that gets 8mpg and considerably less when towing. I only drive it occasionally (Dump Runs) and wish I had purchased a Diesel. My 40’ Diesel Motor Home get’s better mileage pulling a 15’ trailer with 3 motorcycles in it. My friend who I convoy with has a Ford 350 Diesel which cruises at 75 to 80 pulling a 40’ Toy Hauler up and down the Mountains on the East Coast.
I unfortunately am not in the market for a new truck or I would go into Mike Jackson’s and buy that Diesel. In the meantime I have an appointment with Hanna’s. Yes you guessed it I too am from Collingwood.

[CRH]

When choosing a vehicle and taking fuel mileage into account, check out Fuelly.com for what a large group of people are reporting as mileage instead of what one or two guys say. I often read some very good numbers on forums that I question, then go to Fuelly and see that most people are not getting those numbers.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

That only about 10 to 15% of the savings comes from the fuel it's self. Anything past that is a truck to truck difference. Equip the two trucks the same way and you will narrow down any difference past the 15% level. If people are seeing 25% , then 10% of that is the truck and not the fuel. ( = you could change the truck).

Indeed there alway is the possibility that the numbers were not collected under the same conditions or in an accurate manner......I sort of though that went without saying, but that may be a poor assumption. When you start getting down to <5% on fuel milage numbers, a lot of factors could be getting into the mix.

Bob

I'll agree with around 15% being the diesel fuel advantage due to higher heat content of the fuel. But then we need to consider the higher thermal efficiency of the compression ignition cycle over the spark ignition cycle. At the same compression ratio, the diesel will lose out, despite the lower pumping losses due to no throttle restriction, but in practice diesel engines have higher compression ratios than gasoline engines, which provides a higher thermal efficiency, and the net is that there is around a 15% advantage to the diesel cycle. The total theoretical advantage is thus closer to 30% considering the above two factors. Now bring in the newest technology. Gasoline turbo plus direct injection technology has narrowed the gap, so with modern trucks I would say it is less than 30%, before you get to the truck to truck differences.

[starpicker]

Diesel. BTDT. Never regret having more than you need, when you really need it. I learned the hard way. Have more payload capacity than you need, more traction than you need, more torque than you need......no worries and keep it 10 years.

[wbrisett]

It's really down to what you want. I've owned both gas and diesels and at the end of the day, as long as your weight isn't exceeded both perform really well. I don't think there is a bad brand around. Our local Ford dealership has turned me off from buying their products, and that's a shame because I rarely even look that direction knowing they own the majority of dealerships in the area.

And in my mind that's what it really boils down to.. who do you feel comfortable dealing with, how is both sales and service when you need it going to treat you? I really like our local chevy dealership and have a wonderful relationship with the service folks who have been there for several years.

I recently had the itch to look at the new crop of HD trucks, should have known better... both the RAM and Chevy product were excellent products (sorry didn't even bother with the Ford due to having to deal with said dealership). I ended up purchasing a new 2500, which is overkill for my 27FT Airstream. But it's what I wanted and at the end of the day, that is what it comes down to... what you feel comfortable driving and want to drive in.

We spend a lot of time in our tow vehicles, so comfort and features should be exactly what you want. If not, then look elsewhere. From a capability standpoint I would argue any of the ½ tons or ¾ tons work. It's all just preference.

[out of sight]

A 2500 diesel is not overkill for towing a 27. It's the perfect size. You will be able to tow safely at any speed, which you couldnt do with a lesser vehicle.

[r carl]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

That only about 10 to 15% of the savings comes from the fuel it's self. Anything past that is a truck to truck difference. Equip the two trucks the same way and you will narrow down any difference past the 15% level. If people are seeing 25% , then 10% of that is the truck and not the fuel. ( = you could change the truck).

Indeed there alway is the possibility that the numbers were not collected under the same conditions or in an accurate manner......I sort of though that went without saying, but that may be a poor assumption. When you start getting down to <5% on fuel milage numbers, a lot of factors could be getting into the mix.

Bob

Diesel is >$.40 more a gal here now so that gets figured in first.

[Bill M.]

The theoretical efficiency of an engine is a function of the compression ratio. Some Dodge diesel engines have a CR of 17 to 1. Regular gas engines are around 10 to 1. Maybe 13-1 for high test gasoline engines. So there is a lot of room for diesels to get much better millage than gas engines irrespective of the BTU content of the fuel.

I pulled my trailer with a 97 Ford 150 4 speed auto. It got 9-11 mpg and I ran 55 - 60 when I could and less uphill. Same trailer, 2007 Dodge diesel 4 speed auto, 14-15 mpg and I run 63-65 almost anywhere I want to.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

I cannot even begin to comprehend the size of a battery that will allow a 350 mile range towing 10,000.

Larry

Seeing how far the EV progressed during the last 100 years it is safe to assume that a hundred years from now there will be an EV disciple posting the same thing :-))

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

The theoretical efficiency of an engine is a function of the compression ratio. .....

Hi

.... you might want to dig into that a bit. Temperature rise is actually the limit on a conventional engine.

https://www.e-education.psu.edu/egee102/node/1942

(How could you doubt something put out by a school in Pennsylvania )

Bob

[jcl]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

.... you might want to dig into that a bit. Temperature rise is actually the limit on a conventional engine.

https://www.e-education.psu.edu/egee102/node/1942

(How could you doubt something put out by a school in Pennsylvania )

Bob

Wait, we're using the Carnot cycle now? I thought we were discussing the Otto cycle and the Diesel cycle. Ones that can be actually built and which aren't purely theoretical.

[jaybauman]

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

I cannot even begin to comprehend the size of a battery that will allow a 350 mile range towing 10,000.

I'm sure they'll find a way to build the required amount energy storage to make it happen....eventually.

But which campgrounds are going to install the 200 Amp service required to quickly recharge said vehicles?

[Bill M.]

Yes, Bob. T2-T1/T1. The compression ratio determines the temperature differences so I think the theoretical efficiency is in relation to the compression ratio. At least that is how I remember it from 55 years ago when I took my class in thermodynamics. Are you, perchance, stuck with a gasser?

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Bill M.

Yes, Bob. T2-T1/T1. The compression ratio determines the temperature differences so I think the theoretical efficiency is in relation to the compression ratio. At least that is how I remember it from 55 years ago when I took my class in thermodynamics. Are you, perchance, stuck with a gasser?

Hi

Actually the temperature you can take the metal of the inside of the engine is what stops you in terms of the delta temperature. Unless one engine melts (or degrades) at a higher temperature, they will have the same efficiency. In order to go hotter, you would need to go to different materials when making the engine.

Bob

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Actually the temperature you can take the metal of the inside of the engine is what stops you in terms of the delta temperature. Unless one engine melts (or degrades) at a higher temperature, they will have the same efficiency. In order to go hotter, you would need to go to different materials when making the engine.

Bob

Is the use of different materials between gas and diesel explain why a Duramax engine weighs 900-1000 lbs more than the gas equivalent?

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by Hermes

Is the use of different materials between gas and diesel explain why a Duramax engine weighs 900-1000 lbs more than the gas equivalent?

A Duramax engine doesn't weigh 900-1000lbs MORE than the equivalent gas motor, but due to the fact that diesel engines must control cylinder PSI pressures of 350+ PSI, compared to a gas engines 180- 200PSI, you need to build it beefier.
My 5.8L Isuzu 6BD1 inline 6 weighs about 1150 lbs, compared to a 600 or so pound 454. It has a much longer stroke, as most diesels do, which means a much taller engine; also being an inline configuration, it is much longer than the 454.

Cheers
Sidekick Tony