2019 RAM 1500 Towing & Payload

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

Slowmover you should try a 2500 ram 6.7 auto...you might like it...have never had any sway... just using a Reese duel cam....3” lift kit on trailer with 16” michelins...13 31’ as....pu is close to 9000 trailer has 7800 on the axles...

I get what you’re saying as to the 6.7L. If the 5.9L in mine gets tired enough I figure I’d go for the cubic inch increase on a replacement longblock. My rig is similar to yours in weight, and only a bit longer.

Rather,

The “point” on a downslope is to keep the hitch under tension. Trailer brakes LEADING the TV. This is missed too often

Braking the TV ONLY results in slop in the hitch rigging. And as a result a downslope is THE most dangerous piece of road extant for one of these combined vehicles as the TT is looking for any gust of adverse wind to start its pass of the TV.

With a GN or 5er it’s still the same problem. As with an eighteen wheeler: have to lead with trolley brake (trailer only brake for you four wheelers) if service brake application isn’t often enough to maintain tension.

My latest Kenworth & smoothbore tankers feature stability and roll control which activate the antilock trailer brakes at the least hint of vehicle misalignment. It’s impressive.

It doesn’t allow me a faster speed downslope, but it’s very reassuring to know that things are kept in Bristol shape.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Interesting reading the Forum when this subject comes up; all the "long haul, big rig" folks seem to come out of the woodwork to share their "experience's" even when they may not be in synch with modern technology specifications, as tested by the manufacturers! Even think sometimes the old blood pressure kicks in on some of these posts!

While I don't want to argue with experience, I do believe that knowing the limits of your TV, weight of your TT, and driving cautiously when towing is a key element in safety--no matter who you are. I also know that my 2017 F250 with 6.7L diesel is a great match for the weight/length of my 28' FC, going up/down, around in the Rockies, with "automatic engine brake" in "tow haul" mode, while in "cruise control" tacking 1500rpm at 60-65mph. Rarely have to touch the brakes, except in emergency situation. [emoji41]

Now, I know that my experience may be different then some folks, but I'm pretty content with my set up.

The “tech” you’re missing is trailer antilock disc brakes with the TUSON controller and separate antisway module. The trailer and how it’s kept under control.

Drivetrain is beside the point. Only matters for solo vehicles.

Big trucks left RVs behind in the 1990s.

Your lives and property aren’t worth much (is the sad cold fact). The USA once led the planet in highway safety. Not anymore.

The cries of citizens aren’t heard. Only players like insurance companies.

Again:

If one is on a downslope and the hitch is NOT under tension, one is courting disaster.

Same as in exiting an Interstate to a frontage road: one is isolated on that ramp to do necessary braking which is to be completed BEFORE entering the frontage road.

To a speed SLOW ENOUGH that from a 70-mph Interstate to a 45-mph frontage road that one enters the frontage road WHILE ACCELERATING. So that the hitch is in tension. Thus the braking target speed is 35-mph or lower.

ANY ramp or curve or (whatever) with a posted target speed is to be met with a combined vehicle 5-mph under or slower (under perfect conditions) as the posted speed is for a solo car.

FWIW, I enter the outside lane more than two miles out on an empty road. Controlling product surge predominates. Signal on at 4/10s mile.

With the personal rig, more than a mile. Again, that’s with no traffic.

In both cases, earlier where it’s easy to accomplish.

Hitch under tension. Always.

Road speed according to conditions, with spacing the constant control.

Each can modify the other. Tension is first.

[Rocinante]

I know you beat this drum constantly, so I’ll just ask, even though this thread is supposed to be about the 2019 Ram 1500.

Ok, so if I’m riding the trailer brakes all the way down, are they smoking? Melted? Useless when I need them? Explain how all this works to our advantage from a safety perspective. Seriously, there’s what feels like a legitimate reason I don’t want to be on those brakes for the entirety of a multi-mile-long 9% grade.

[slowmover]

Who said you’d want to ride the brakes?

What other threads at this site, or what other sources did you use? On how to make a mountain descent.

The target speed down the hill is one that is both overshot and undershot.

30-mph and the vehicle hits 35. Use of brakes to reduce to 25-mph. Repeat as necessary.

The slower the speed, the less effect wind can have. And the TIME spent slowing can exceed the time spent in acceleration.

I think you already know this. So why ask me?

An exhaust brake is for vehicles already badly taxed by the descent. Only allow a slightly higher speed in any case.

But what I see is the usual dumb RVers headed downhill at 55, with oblivious failure to not only maintain hitch tension, but a worse failure in vehicle spacing.

No room for mistakes. No room for others as dumb shirt RVer with his pickemup flies down the mountain, 20, 30. 40 mph faster than other combined vehicles.

Oh, yeah, and as the AS weight is already ALL on the front axle due to failure to adequately rig the hitchup, his single pair of brakes will soon fail. When he and others need his to work

Muh 25 had to have a magic one ton to pull it.

As he can’t be trusted to maintain spacing, proper downhill speed or awareness of the space needs of others.

Nope, he’s checking his Fantasy Football League for the upcoming season, leaning on the center console, phone in that hand.

My grrreat big magic pickemup with EB has things in control!!

[slowmover]

A truck is, as always, only for when particular gear cannot be carried inside the passenger cab or the TT.

In every other case better choices exist.

As to the thread title, yeah, like every other half ton of the past forty years, it’ll pull the trailer. Any AS.

So will plenty of better choices.

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Again:

If one is on a downslope and the hitch is NOT under tension, one is courting disaster.

Originally Posted by Rocinante

I know you beat this drum constantly, so I’ll just ask, even though this thread is supposed to be about the 2019 Ram 1500.

Ok, so if I’m riding the trailer brakes all the way down, are they smoking? Melted? Useless when I need them? Explain how all this works to our advantage from a safety perspective. Seriously, there’s what feels like a legitimate reason I don’t want to be on those brakes for the entirety of a multi-mile-long 9% grade.

Originally Posted by slowmover

Who said you’d want to ride the brakes?

What other threads at this site, or what other sources did you use? On how to make a mountain descent.

Seems like a fair question... How do we keep the hitch in tension the whole way down to avoid disaster, if not on the brakes?

[Rocinante]

Originally Posted by RandyNH

Seems like a fair question... How do we keep the hitch in tension the whole way down to avoid disaster, if not on the brakes?

Yup, Randy captured and expressed my question better and perhaps more courteously than I did. Thanks for that!

[tjdonahoe]

Hitch under tension?? When only using eb..the trailer is pushing..foot break..the trailer comes on first..lightly....very little slop on my Reese..

[crispyboy]

If you have an EB on your truck use it!! It keeps the truck and trailer at a controlled speed when going down hill. If by chance you have to stop quickly or slow down the service brakes will still be fresh and will stop you quickly. The only time the EB should come into question is if your are running on a snow covered road. Most folks towing rv's don't get in this predicament too often but if you do use some common sense.
The trailer is always going to push the TV down a hill (gravity works this way) so the whole "hitch tension" thing is a mute point. I'm certain those who drive the big trucks have a a whole different set of parameters than a typical rv'er. This stuff isn't rocket science, just common sense.
It will be a cold day in hell when I give up the EB on my truck!

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by crispyboy

If you have an EB on your truck use it!! It keeps the truck and trailer at a controlled speed when going down hill. If by chance you have to stop quickly or slow down the service brakes will still be fresh and will stop you quickly. The only time the EB should come into question is if your are running on a snow covered road. Most folks towing rv's don't get in this predicament too often but if you do use some common sense.
The trailer is always going to push the TV down a hill (gravity works this way) so the whole "hitch tension" thing is a mute point. I'm certain those who drive the big trucks have a a whole different set of parameters than a typical rv'er. This stuff isn't rocket science, just common sense.
It will be a cold day in hell when I give up the EB on my truck!

The TT will roll faster than the TV in a descent. It exhibits this as side to side movement.

It’s trying to pass you (is how to conceive it).

Application of TT brakes alone, or in conjunction with the TV service brakes AND the application force to the TT brakes would

if disconnected from the TV

cause it to slow FASTER than the TV. This is necessary.

It is NO LONGER being steered by the TV when proportional braking isn’t being applied.

“Hitched” is part of the equation. “Tension” is the other part. Necessary part.

For the umpteenth time:

Make a descent with no hitch tension, and there is literally no more vulnerable position to put yourself in.

An EB isn’t any more an answer than the wholly adequate programming on gas motored transmissions. Beside the point. Argue the merits of the color blue, is as applicable to a safe descent.

[VernDiesel]

Having a tanker endorsement and having come down curving 5 & 6 percent grades (in days gone by) with a tank full of liquid both in straight trucks and semi I can appreciate where you are coming from. It’s no place for rookies. Lol And I assure you “super trucker” I was not.

Ideal is to always lead and or keep constant tension as you say from the trailer side of the hitch instead of the TV side as you warn. Via being on off service brakes. But literal constant tension as you say could only occur by riding the brake which you could not advocate either. In practice, with my PU & TT road conditions being good I supplement speed control with turbo & trans brake paying attention and supplementing with TBC and or service brakes accordingly. Common sense and lol understanding the “gravity” of the situation & the dynamics of it being a part of that equation. With knowledge & understanding it can be done safely either way each with its own pro & con as I see it.

I get your gripe as to what is the “right” method and that many RVers especially, mis-use and rely too heavily on the EB and worse they are not paying attention like they should because they underestimate the danger as they don’t fully understand all the dynamics at play. It just feels safe & under control to them right up to the second it’s not with people not realizing that let alone how close they might be to that line. Not that in more normal road conditions a minor slip in traction would be hard to recover or lead to immediate disaster. As even when a slip in traction occurs while using EB it’s still a spinning drive wheel going in the same direction and should normally be fairly easy to recover traction as inertia hasn’t changed much yet as a TT is not a liquid. But the over confident reliance I think is why you bring it up in these threads. In fact my earlier post perfectly set the stage for your reply’s. So I think I now get what you are trying to convey to forum readers and why. And two thumbs up to you for that sir.

My own somewhat similar quest or bone to pick is with peoples over focus on payload instead of proper setup IE weight distribution set via scale results as it should be. (For the readers as this gives you a more concrete answer to what it can tow both for safety & stability and for legality or meeting mfg specs) At least with respects to a bumper pull TT that should be useing a WDH.

Sheesh this thread did go astray from the coming 2019 Ram 1500. But that really just means these are topics that people need to discuss.

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by jcl

It will be interesting to see what GM changes with respect to their transmissions with their new 10 speed. The Ford 6R80 was similar to the ZF 6 speed, and the new Ford 10R80 is shared with GM, although each say they will do their own programming. I would expect the base transmissions to be very similar, since a design goal was parts commonality to reduce cost. Haven’t read much about the GM version, but Ford says that features include fluid heating at start up, a new much thinner ATF, 206-215 F operating temp, etc. Ford says the heated transmission fluid function is to improve cold shift quality.

Edit. Just saw your revised fluid temps. Sounds right. New ones eg 10 speed are going to run hotter by design. They may be less tolerant of low trans fluid temps than previous models.

Originally Posted by dznf0g

GM 10 speed have been out in some Camero models for a year. Might be able to glean something there, but I'm sure trucks will be somewhat different.

The highest I have ever seen my 8 speed was 209 pulling a long steep grade in summer. (Towing)

Up to this point, the 8 speed warms by bypassing all cooling. As stated before That seems to be at 90ﾟF. I can tell a difference in shift quality and pattern at 90ﾟ consistently in the winter. I believe there is also 2 separate programs, a cold program and a warm program.

Originally Posted by dznf0g

It'll also be interesting if the same dexron hp will be used...if normal temps are some 20-30* higher. That'll tell us 8 speed owners that the fluid was over engineered. Perhaps.

And this all has exactly what...to do with a Ram 1500?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Boxite

And this all has exactly what...to do with a Ram 1500?

All units discussed have automatic transmissions. All have fluid temperature management strategies. The RAM uses a ZF transmission, the shared Ford and GM transmission is a new transmission designed by Ford similarly to the ZF, since the last Ford 6 speed transmission was based on the ZF.

The entry point was how fluid temperatures will vary with load, and how a transmission that uses a heat exchanger and heats the fluid (from the engine jacket, at start up) differs from a traditional transmission cooling strategy that uses a core in or in front of the radiator.

Seems to me to be more on topic than engine braking with an exhaust brake, the tow characteristics of a dump truck with a pup trailer and pintle hitch, and several of the myriad of other topics we touched on. ;-)

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by jcl

All units discussed have automatic transmissions. All have fluid temperature management strategies. The RAM uses a ZF transmission, the shared Ford and GM transmission is a new transmission designed by Ford similarly to the ZF, since the last Ford 6 speed transmission was based on the ZF.

The entry point was how fluid temperatures will vary with load, and how a transmission that uses a heat exchanger and heats the fluid (from the engine jacket, at start up) differs from a traditional transmission cooling strategy that uses a core in or in front of the radiator.

Seems to me to be more on topic than engine braking with an exhaust brake, the tow characteristics of a dump truck with a pup trailer and pintle hitch, and several of the myriad of other topics we touched on. ;-)

The RAM does not use the same fluid as those other trucks ...so the conversation is not applicable to the Ram... is my point. The Ram uses ATF-4...not Dexron.