2016 Volvo XC90 T8

[Tomzstream]

Thought I'd start a fresh thread on this vehicle. Final specs are not out yet, but may be introduced in two weeks when it makes its NA debut at the LA Auto Show.

It features a super charged turbo 4 cyl "Drive-E" engine driving the front wheels and a 60-kilowatt electric motor driving the rear.

It can be driven in all electric mode up to 25 miles and does have regenerative braking.

The 2-liter gas engine has 316 horsepower and 295 pound-feet of torque while the electric motor has 80-hp and 177 pound-feet of torque for a combined 396 horsepower and 472 pound-feet of torque!

They have not published the actual hitch weight limit yet, probably dependent on what class hitch they put on for the NA market, but the Euro specs show a trailering limit (braked) as 2500kg or a little over 5500 lbs.

It looks to have ample carrying capacity of close to 1500 lbs. Other Euro specs can be found here: http://www.volvocars.com/uk/Document...-Pricelist.pdf

I think you could probably tow anything from a Bambi on up to perhaps a 25 footer, depending on the hitch.

The electric only mode may be useful when creeping along in traffic, and the combined AWD mode would certainly be useful in Mud or going up hills. Can't wait to see what the EPA specs are.

[dznf0g]

Do not be surprised if Volvo does not allow towing with this edition. It is pretty common practice with EVs. Many of the bits and pieces may be changed from the "regular" version...to the lighter side. Add ultra low rolling resistance tires, etc. and they get knocked out of the towing game for the achievement of more range and fuel economy. That's the target market.

[Tomzstream]

Yes, they do, they specifically list tow limits on the UK specs for this specific model. Open the linked doc and scroll to the bottom.

[Tomzstream]

ENGINE D5 AWD T8 Twin Engine
Transmission Auto Auto
Cylinders 4 4
Engine capacity, cc 1969 1969
Max. output ECE, hp/kw/rpm 225/165/4250 320/235/5700
Max. torque ECE, Nm/rpm 470/1750-2500 400/2200-4500
Transmission (no. of gears) 8 8
Start/Stop Yes Yes
Fuel Diesel Petrol
Fuel tank volume, litres (gallons) 71 (15.6) 50 (11.0)
PERFORMANCE
Top speed, mph 137 140
Acceleration 0–60 mph, sec TBA TBA
0–62 mph (0–100 km/h), sec 7.8 6.4
FUEL CONSUMPTION MPG (l/100 KM) 3) 4)
Urban TBA n/a
Extra Urban TBA n/a
Combined 48.7 (5.8) 104.6 (2.7)

WEIGHTS
Min. kerb weight, kg TBA TBA
Running order, kg 2,030 2,350
Max. total weight, kg 2,750 3,010
Max. towing weight braked, kg 2,400 2,500
Max. towing weight unbraked, kg 5) 750 750
Max. payload, kg (dependent on spec.) 700 660
Max. towball weight / roof load, kg TBA / TBA TBA / TBA

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Tomzstream

Yes, they do, they specifically list tow limits on the UK specs for this specific model. Open the linked doc and scroll to the bottom.

Oh, I understand, and when it comes over they may allow towing....but...."funny things happen on the way to Rome". Their marketers may have something else in mind when it is "Americanized". Over the pond, they don't have to deal with CAFE or EPA, etc. That could drive changes to the powertrain, etc.

All may be for naught....I just wouldn't assume it'll be exactly as the Euro brochures indicate.

[AlbertF]

I'm hoping we eventually get the diesel. Same displacement as the gas 4 cylinder, yet, only 3 mph shy in terms of top speed.

I've never cared for the original XC90 (I driven one with the Yamaha V8, and good friends had a 2005 model with the 5 cylinder turbo), and I'm not fond of SUVs in general, but this new Volvo has definitely attracted my attention. We'll see what it's really like when it's introduced.

[Tomzstream]

The US specs are out for the T6 (gas engine only) here: Specifications | Specifications and Features | All-new Volvo XC90 | Volvo Models | www.volvocars.com/us

approx 5300 lbs tow weight.

EPA still tbd.

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by Tomzstream

The US specs are out for the T6 (gas engine only) here: Specifications | Specifications and Features | All-new Volvo XC90 | Volvo Models | www.volvocars.com/us

approx 5300 lbs tow weight.

EPA still tbd.

I found gear ratios for the 8 speed automatic (and final drive) on a dealer's web site and plugged them into a towing spreadsheet that I created. Making some assumptions about aerodynamic drag, I think the XC90 will be a rather strong tow vehicle. The 5300 lb recommendation is conservative, especially in light of the car's near-1700 lb payload capacity.

Wheelbase is long - 118"? and overall length is something like 195". It is a big vehicle, but curb weight is supposed to be only 4400 lbs. This is impressively light.

Food for thought - how will the bottom end of a 2 litre four cylinder stand up to producing something in the range of 300 lbs-ft of torque on a sustained basis? Engine management to control power delivery and operating temperatures is going to be critical, especially with the combined supercharger/turbocharger system that Volvo has developed.

My guess is that it will be fine, but it shows how far engine technology has progressed in the last 30 years.

Fuel economy? I would guess 23 mpg (US) solo at 75 mph. Weight influences city economy, and aero drag is the primary determinant of highway economy. These fancy blown four cylinder engines are more about achieving better government ratings than achieving better real-world economy. In truth, I'd rather have the current 3.0 turbocharged inline six.

[gypsydad]

Guess I'm missing something here....are you guys nuts? That's a Volvo wagon, right?? Your thinking of buying a $$$ pricy Volvo wagon with a small turbo charged engine to pull a 5K+ pound AS?? May I ask what your smoking?

[dznf0g]

I can't seem to find any info on whether any Volvo model is J2807 compliant???? Anyone else know and can point to a press release, etc?

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Guess I'm missing something here....are you guys nuts? That's a Volvo wagon, right?? Your thinking of buying a $$$ pricy Volvo wagon with a small turbo charged engine to pull a 5K+ pound AS?? May I ask what your smoking?

Yes, it's a station wagon, otherwise known as a SUV. It's Volvo's largest model.

Yes, I am positive that it will ably tow virtually an Airstream, except maybe the 30' unit with the slide because the tongue weight is over 1000 lbs.

And the last thing I smoked was a Costa Rican cigar a couple of months ago. I'm certain that it's not affecting my mental acuity.

[RamblinManGa]

Hi from AZ. . . the wife has a '08 XC90, no turbo, no AWD, and I wouldn't tow any trailer with it. It's not been reliable either. . . just sayin ! Craig

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by RamblinManGa

Hi from AZ. . . the wife has a '08 XC90, no turbo, no AWD, and I wouldn't tow any trailer with it. It's not been reliable either. . . just sayin ! Craig

Interesting. We tow with my wife's 2008 V70 - the same engine and transmission as your XC90, with the same overall gearing (different final drive because the tires are smaller than on your XC90). It's been very good for us.

[rostam]

Volvo that designed/manufactured/tested the vehicle says it can tow 5300#. What makes you think it can tow any Airstream? Are you a former design engineer in Volvo, and have some inside information we do not have? Until you run J2807 towing tests on an XC90 with a trailer weighing more than 5300#, it can only tow 5300#.

[Tomzstream]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Guess I'm missing something here....are you guys nuts? That's a Volvo wagon, right?? Your thinking of buying a $$$ pricy Volvo wagon with a small turbo charged engine to pull a 5K+ pound AS?? May I ask what your smoking?

Yea, that wimpy little wagon with 400 HP and 472 pounds-feet torque...

See it here: 2016 Volvo XC90 Plug-In Hybrid Revealed In LA - Video - HybridCars.com

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Tomzstream

Yea, that wimpy little wagon with 400 HP and 472 pounds-feet torque...

See it here: 2016 Volvo XC90 Plug-In Hybrid Revealed In LA - Video - HybridCars.com

Forgive me for insulting....just don't think of a Volvo as a TV...it's a family wagon in my eyes...and I have owned a few Volvos, MBZ's also, including the ML350 pulling a 5K lb trailer; to me, the 1/2 ton PU's make the most sense...but, pull on with your Volvo...be safe!

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by rostam

Volvo that designed/manufactured/tested the vehicle says it can tow 5300#. What makes you think it can tow any Airstream? Are you a former design engineer in Volvo, and have some inside information we do not have? Until you run J2807 towing tests on an XC90 with a trailer weighing more than 5300#, it can only tow 5300#.

No, I'm not an engineer, just someone with mechanical aptitude who thinks for himself and regards marketing claims with a measure of skepticism.

First, I doubt if Volvo applied J2807 in establishing the 2400 kg weight number. The old XC90 was always rated for 2250 kg, despite having considerably less power with the 2.5 light-pressure turbo 5 cylinder or the 3.2 inline 6. These numbers are based on European standards, and assume the absence of any weight-distributing hitch system.

Second, J2807 is primarily performance based, with the most significant value a 0-60 mph acceleration time of less than 30 seconds - a modest standard by any measure. Cooling system performance on a long grade in 100 degree weather is also simulated. There are a couple of other grade-based requirements, but based on personal experience with my Volvos, and a close examination of the torque output and gear ratio specs, I am confident that the XC90 would do just fine, even with a loaded 34' Airstream and a GCW of 15000 lbs. There are also braking and handling tests, but I doubt that these are difficult to achieve with a vehicle designed for performance.

Third, weight is only relevant when accelerating or climbing a hill. At speed on a level highway, aerodynamic drag is all-important and your TV doesn't "know" whether your trailer is 1000 lbs or 10000 lbs, aside from a relatively inconsequential increase in friction from tires and bearings. Practical experience has conclusively demonstrated that weight-based tow ratings are essentially meaningless, particularly when we are dealing with trailers with superior aerodynamics, a low centre of gravity, independent suspension and big brakes like our Airstreams.

Safe towing depends on a good-handling tow vehicle, a trailer that is designed to handle well, good equipment, the right tires, and a precise weight distributing hitch setup. Of course, "safe" is hard to measure, except in terms of what most people are comfortable with, and in comparison to other combinations. I expect that's why SAE J2807 does not really address safety, but mainly defines a limited number of acceptable performance standards.

FWIW, while I have owned a number of Volvos, I don't know if I will end up buying an XC90 in the future. I prefer sedans because they are always going to handle better and be more fuel-efficient. I like the Audi A7, but 5-series BMWs and the Mercedes-Benz E-Class have always been appealing. In particular, I prefer manual transmissions and I believe that rear-drive is superior, especially going sideways on snow, but that's a Canadian boy for you.

[Jim Flower]

Volvo towing what appears to be a 30 footer on the 401 having no trouble whatsoever keeping up with the traffic at any time. Jim


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[dznf0g]

Albert, I think you're incomplete in your assessment of J2807. I would like an official copy of it, but they want $70 for one!!!! I'm just not willing to spend the cash, so I have to rely on what the mags say.

It is much more than a 0 - 60 test. It is rather comprehensive and includes a long uphill climb maintaining 60mph without overheating, a braking test, 0 - 60....among others.

You are right that it is a performance based test battery designed to compare apples to apples when a relatively uneducated buyer shops for TVs. My understanding, internally, is that we will, with some digging perhaps, still have the old GCWR, payload, GAWR, GVW, etc. numbers available for a vehicle's true CAPABILITY, if you are not interested in maintaining 60mph up that hill, but still don't want to hurt reliability and durability (break it) while towing.

IOW, the folks who believed the old specs could be exceeded (they were wrong) because it was all marketing hype, will now be somewhat correct in that the J2807 "performance" numbers will be typically lower than the GCWR (the actual engineering capability of the TV).

I asked about Volvo because their number seems like the old "capability" based number, not J2807 from my experience.

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Albert, I think you're incomplete in your assessment of J2807. I would like an official copy of it, but they want $70 for one!!!! I'm just not willing to spend the cash, so I have to rely on what the mags say.

It is much more than a 0 - 60 test. It is rather comprehensive and includes a long uphill climb maintaining 60mph without overheating, a braking test, 0 - 60....among others.

You are right that it is a performance based test battery designed to compare apples to apples when a relatively uneducated buyer shops for TVs. My understanding, internally, is that we will, with some digging perhaps, still have the old GCWR, payload, GAWR, GVW, etc. numbers available for a vehicle's true CAPABILITY, if you are not interested in maintaining 60mph up that hill, but still don't want to hurt reliability and durability (break it) while towing.

IOW, the folks who believed the old specs could be exceeded (they were wrong) because it was all marketing hype, will now be somewhat correct in that the J2807 "performance" numbers will be typically lower than the GCWR (the actual engineering capability of the TV).

I asked about Volvo because their number seems like the old "capability" based number, not J2807 from my experience.

Thank you for your diplomatic reply, even though my post was probably a bit strident.

Yes, the SAE website wasn't very helpful . . . and I probably relied on the same sources you did.

It's clear that there are two approaches - by the numbers, and then personal judgement.

I do respect GAWR/GVWR (and actual payload is simply GVWR less the vehicle's empty weight). Tongue weight (properly distributed) needs to be factored in. Indeed, payload capacity can be the most significant limiting factor when assessing a car's ability to tow larger trailers. However, most station wagons (including SUVs) and minivans have rather generous payload capacities.

Sedans are more limited; I can tell you that the ride on my old Volvo S60 gets rather poor on rough roads and concrete interstates when the car is loaded close to its GVWR and I am happy to be towing with the newer V70 wagon. However, the smaller and stiffer S60 was actually more stable and handled better while towing!

GCVWR is very much performance-based, and not about safety. I am comfortable being categorical about that because a number of years ago (before any discussion about J2807) I came across an article describing how trucks were tested. I came to the conclusion that GCVWR was generally based on pulling a 20%+ grade in first gear without overheating the engine, transmission, or the differential. (As an aside, it is interesting to observe how many trucks now have finned aluminum differential covers now.)

Yes, J2807 is no doubt more demanding in that respect, with the long, hot highway speed tow. However, 30 seconds to 60 mph is not a high standard. The V70 gets the Overlander to 60 in about 22 seconds.

You questioned reliability. I've certainly had that concern, but I've concluded that if the engine can move it, the rest of the driveline should be fine if the powertrain engineers have done their jobs. To put it another way, if the transmission/driveshaft/differential/axle shafts can't handle the maximum torque output of the engine on a sustained basis, that's a design failure, pure and simple. The V70's non-turbo engine produces about 235 lbs ft, while the 6 speed Aisin transmission is rated for 325. I don't know what the new ZF 8 speed that the XC90 will use is rated for.

Please understand that I am referring to steady loads, not shock loads or abuse. I am also assuming proper cooling and avoidance of frequent shifting (for automatic transmissions).