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Old 01-21-2015, 08:21 PM   #29
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I am kind of surprised that you prefer the Italian engine. I am not a diesel guy but even I have always heard that Cummins built seriously fine power plants.

But, time will tell...

Mike
I've always been leery of doing a manufacturer's R&D for them. From what I've heard, people are pretty happy with the VM Motori diesel (and it evidently has a proven track record in Europe). Not much is known about the Cummins V8.

FWIW, I'm sticking with my 6.7 Cummins.
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:28 PM   #30
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The new Colorado should give Nissan and Toyota to update the Frontier and Tacoma. Ford and Ram should also get back into the compact truck market. The XTerra, Armada, and Titan are also very overdue for a makeover.
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Old 01-21-2015, 08:34 PM   #31
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The new Colorado should give Nissan and Toyota to update the Frontier and Tacoma. Ford and Ram should also get back into the compact truck market. The XTerra, Armada, and Titan are also very overdue for a makeover.
Rainy days and Mondays always get me down...
The small truck market isn't large enough in North America to support more than 2 1/2 players. That's why GM got out (believing that a new Ranger was in the works) until Ford dropped out, presumably to apply the resources to the F150 BIG STAKES GAMBLE. When Ford dropped out we went into full speed development mode.
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:07 PM   #32
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I've always been leery of doing a manufacturer's R&D for them. From what I've heard, people are pretty happy with the VM Motori diesel (and it evidently has a proven track record in Europe). Not much is known about the Cummins V8.

FWIW, I'm sticking with my 6.7 Cummins.

I read somewhere that VM Motori is the 2nd largest manufacturer of (light duty?) Diesel engine after Mercedes. It gets great mileage in 1500 and is also very quiet (for a diesel).
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:11 PM   #33
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Bold, only time will tell. The current Tacoma is very old and tired. Why give the public what they are paying for, when their only competition is a more tired and weak Frontier. The much balley hooed "all new Tacoma" on the horizon will be the tale in the making. Our intel seems to contradict their public statements. I predict the new one will be a relatively minor redo....or will be delayed for at least a year from their claims. I hear they were very shocked to see GM's return to the market and when they got their early intel in relative to the Colorado, they went "Oh Sh**!!" and went back to the drawing board for a ground up major.

YES, corporate spying is alive and well.

The new Tacoma is rumored to have 3.6 liter V6 with direct injection (maybe similar to the engine in the new Highlander?)and a 6 speed transmission, so the changes would not be just sheet metal. It will be interesting to see what the market share numbers are in a year or two.
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:21 PM   #34
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I didn't say sheet metal. I'm talking about a complete robust chassis change, along with all new body structure, and modern electrical architecture. Sharing powertrains isn't uncommon. Colorado, for example, uses the 2.5 liter and the 3.6 liter....already proven in other products. The diesel in 2016 is new in North America, but not globally.

As I DID say, it will be interesting to see if they can accelerate a "true" all new truck, or do a....what I call a "minor, major".
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:28 PM   #35
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I didn't say sheet metal. I'm talking about a complete robust chassis change, along with all new body structure, and modern electrical architecture. Sharing powertrains isn't uncommon. Colorado, for example, uses the 2.5 liter and the 3.6 liter....already proven in other products. The diesel in 2016 is new in North America, but not globally.

As I DID say, it will be interesting to see if they can accelerate a "true" all new truck, or do a....what I call a "minor, major".

I would think the incremental change is intentional. I guess Toyota cares more about being reliable than having an "all new" truck. The changes in Tundra were even less significant (no drive train change).
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Old 01-21-2015, 09:42 PM   #36
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Incremental change is always intentional. Everybody does it. Typically a truck life cycle is 7 - 10 years. During that time there is customarily a couple "refreshes" and one "minor". Refresh is just to keep the guys on a 3 year trade cycle with something fresh. It usually only changes grills, lights, interior fabrics, textures and maybe moves some switches around...and minimal sheet metal changes (stamping dies are EXPENSIVE). A "minor" usually has several sheet metal changes...maybe some smaller powertrain changes, and usually some moderate interior changes.

Everybody does this cycle. But the speculation that this is a "major" has me scratching my head. It's possible.....but I really think it's either a minor with a true major in maybe 17 or 18...or they will announce a "delay" in introduction sometime after the auto show circuit is over.

Been there, bought tickets to the show....everybody does that too. DON'T believe the mags, until you see iron on the pavement.
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Old 01-22-2015, 05:46 AM   #37
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The big 3 go for the 7-year redesign-
Toyota and Nissan go for the 10-year redesign-
The Tacoma looked good enough in 2005, but it is time-
The Frontier/XTerra/Armada looked good in 2005, but are way overdue-
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Old 01-22-2015, 06:00 AM   #38
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Gm and ford are in together on the new 10 speed transmission, the Italian diesel is mostly owned by gm but dodge is going to use it,the auto manufactures are all working together to get your monies and they want all of it. I will still keep my 6.7 cummins.Some one mentioned the Mercedes diesel, only thing I know is that in the big trucks they are weak compared to the big cats or cummins and who wants to drive a under powered truck?
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:05 AM   #39
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Gm and ford are in together on the new 10 speed transmission, the Italian diesel is mostly owned by gm but dodge is going to use it,the auto manufactures are all working together to get your monies and they want all of it. I will still keep my 6.7 cummins.Some one mentioned the Mercedes diesel, only thing I know is that in the big trucks they are weak compared to the big cats or cummins and who wants to drive a under powered truck?
GM no longer owns any interest in VM Motori, it's a wholly-owned subsidiary of Fiat now and has been for a couple of years.
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Old 01-22-2015, 11:31 AM   #40
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Also, the 1500hd was a stop gap. The market suddenly went to very heavy crew cab demand. The GMT800 (1500)was nearing the end of it's engineering lifecycle. Problem was, adding a crew to the existing 800 program left little payload. GM took the 2500 frame and detuned the suspension (and other associated parts) to bridge the gap until the all new chassis GMT900 (1500) line came up.....then there was "no need" for a 1500hd.

BUT, I still scream for a detuned suspensioned 2500 with a 6.2 liter spec'ed for the RV and boating market. But, I have no pull whatsoever.
GM didn't actually detune the suspension on the HD 1500. They just rebadged the 8600 GVW when they brought out the 9200 to accommodate the diesel weight.
I ordered as many of them as I could get for the dealership as people who wouldn't buy an 8600lb because of the"rough ride" had no problem with the HD 1500. Mind games, but it would be a great to offer it again.


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Old 01-22-2015, 11:32 AM   #41
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The big 3 go for the 7-year redesign-
Toyota and Nissan go for the 10-year redesign-
The Tacoma looked good enough in 2005, but it is time-
The Frontier/XTerra/Armada looked good in 2005, but are way overdue-
I think the big 3 do more frequent sheet metal revamps every 4 years though and run the underpinnings a little longer.

Ford's truck is mostly all the same underpinnings since the redesign in 2004. But they do more option changes with their sheet metal refreshes too.







The GM800 aka 1500 still feels like the same truck, but the 3 generations look very different, but close study and you'll notice it's the same truck with really different sheet metal.

Dodge seems to not really follow that trend though, I barely noticed the refresh that happened in 2013 until I saw a picture that shows the 3 things they changed on the Ram, and you'd be hard press to notice the differences.

I'm glad there are more automotive enthusiast in this thread.
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Old 01-22-2015, 02:05 PM   #42
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The GM generations went from 1999-2007 Classic with front cap and tail light changes- 8 years-
The next generation ran from 2007-2013- 6 years-
The Tundra Generations went from 2000-2006 for the first generation- 7 years-
The second generation is still going as far as I'm concerned. Yes, they changed the interior and front cap and bed, but the chassis is the same- engine, transmission, and rear end are the same. Which year did they switch from the 4.7 to the 4.6?
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