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Old 08-22-2015, 11:45 AM   #15
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Looked at all the trucks made it seems in last two months. And I agree with you on Ford, they have by far the cheapest feel of any interior I saw. The Tundra 1794 was the nicest. Ram 2500 Laramie interior looked and felt like a luxury car compared to the new Ford trucks interior.

Makes no sense at all. But it carries over to other Ford models as well, the new Expeditions were no better. Hard plastic everywhere. When I get into a higher trim Ram (Laramie and up) or the Chevy Silverado 2500, heaven forbid GMC Denali HD, I'm stepping into a very luxurious truck. Quality in every direction. That feeling is noticeably absent when getting in a new Ford.


Dan
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Old 08-22-2015, 12:38 PM   #16
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Looked at all the trucks made it seems in last two months. And I agree with you on Ford, they have by far the cheapest feel of any interior I saw. The Tundra 1794 was the nicest. Ram 2500 Laramie interior looked and felt like a luxury car compared to the new Ford trucks interior.

Makes no sense at all. But it carries over to other Ford models as well, the new Expeditions were no better. Hard plastic everywhere. When I get into a higher trim Ram (Laramie and up) or the Chevy Silverado 2500, heaven forbid GMC Denali HD, I'm stepping into a very luxurious truck. Quality in every direction. That feeling is noticeably absent when getting in a new Ford.


Dan
If the interior quality is your major concern, then by all means go for a Dodge or GM. Apparently, more people are buying the F-150 for other reasons like reliability, durability and towing reputation.
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Old 08-22-2015, 03:46 PM   #17
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I've talked with dozens of people personally and read hundreds of other accounts. Many were former Ford enthusiast, hopefully not tattooed with blue ovals, who traded in their Fords and bought new Rams, Chevys, and several went with the impressive Denali HD.

There is nothing inherently special about the quality of newer Ford trucks. That is me being a more polite version of myself and using my indoor voice. I originally wanted one, but after comparing what Ram and Chevy offered, my blue oval dreams faded. I still love certain aspects of the F-350, but not all of course.

Let's not let the Kool Aid influence our judgement. Jones Town ended poorly. I have been searching for a tow vehicle for two months non stop, visited dealers all over NC, test drove a dozen or so, and have absolutely no bias for or against any manufacturer. They all have pros and cons in my opinion. Some more easily overlooked than others.

The unreliable reputation of the previous Ford Diesel engines was hard for me to get past. But I tried to be open minded and test drove many F-250's and F-350's. I loved the power of the 6.7, still do, but couldn't believe how sluggish the 6.2 gasser was. In the end, I decided to look at offerings from other manufacturers.

Regarding powerplants, the Hemi 6.4 was drastically more impressive to me than the Ford 6.2. The Cummins diesel in Ram is rated for a 350k engine life, B50 or similar industry standards, compared to 225k for the Ford 6.7 diesel. Randomly talking with owners of Duramax/Allison Chevy/GMC owners revealed much greater reliability and overall confidence than that of the Ford 6.7 diesel owners.

This is broad sword stuff, clearly there are varying opinions and mine is only one of millions. I'm no truck expert, not implying otherwise. Just reporting my findings, which were ultimately unfavorable towards buying a Ford.

One of the principle concerns was all the high pressure fuel pump failures with the new 6.7 diesels. You won't believe me naturally, just Google Ford failed HPFP. Put on a pot of coffee first. I wasn't seeking dirt on Ford when I found out about this stuff. I was wanting to buy one and doing my due diligence.

The larger issue, in numerous accounts, Ford refused to repair vehicles with HPFP failures although they were still under warranty. They weasled out of warranty claims using some unsavory and creative ideas in the reports I found. Like I said, research it yourself, will take about 5-10 minutes to confirm.

The overall quality of Ram Laramie and up trim, and Chevy 2500 LT up, is in another league in my humble opinion. That doesn't make the Ford a bad truck. I try not to use blanket statements like fanboys and Kool Aid drinkers. They help no one and make us seem like silly cheerleaders.

All the manufacturers are making higher quality trucks now than ever, I truly believe that. But when spending $45-60k on a truck, I think it's worth being honest with ourselves and others. I'm sure I would be happy in a new F-350 with 6.7. But I'm of the opinion I will be much happier in another truck. Nothing personal about that.


Dan
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Old 08-22-2015, 05:25 PM   #18
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Maybe the minor weight reduction didn't come from just the aluminum?


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Old 08-22-2015, 05:32 PM   #19
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Maybe the minor weight reduction didn't come from just the aluminum?


George
Bingo! We have a winner. Ford had long been the heaviest of the crowd. GM and Ram (Dodge) had been on a methodical diet for a couple product generations. Ford chose to wait and do it all at once. Much of their weight reductions are in chassis components, interior components, etc. I believe aluminum panels got them about 300#s of their 700#s of savings.
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Old 08-22-2015, 06:18 PM   #20
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Quality es job uno, seņor.
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Old 08-22-2015, 08:08 PM   #21
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Now that's a 2.5 billion dollar joke
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Old 08-22-2015, 10:17 PM   #22
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2015 Ford F-150 Still Number 1

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Originally Posted by Danattherock View Post
I've talked with dozens of people personally and read hundreds of other accounts. Many were former Ford enthusiast, hopefully not tattooed with blue ovals, who traded in their Fords and bought new Rams, Chevys, and several went with the impressive Denali HD.

There is nothing inherently special about the quality of newer Ford trucks. That is me being a more polite version of myself and using my indoor voice. I originally wanted one, but after comparing what Ram and Chevy offered, my blue oval dreams faded. I still love certain aspects of the F-350, but not all of course.

Let's not let the Kool Aid influence our judgement. Jones Town ended poorly. I have been searching for a tow vehicle for two months non stop, visited dealers all over NC, test drove a dozen or so, and have absolutely no bias for or against any manufacturer. They all have pros and cons in my opinion. Some more easily overlooked than others.

The unreliable reputation of the previous Ford Diesel engines was hard for me to get past. But I tried to be open minded and test drove many F-250's and F-350's. I loved the power of the 6.7, still do, but couldn't believe how sluggish the 6.2 gasser was. In the end, I decided to look at offerings from other manufacturers.

Regarding powerplants, the Hemi 6.4 was drastically more impressive to me than the Ford 6.2. The Cummins diesel in Ram is rated for a 350k engine life, B50 or similar industry standards, compared to 225k for the Ford 6.7 diesel. Randomly talking with owners of Duramax/Allison Chevy/GMC owners revealed much greater reliability and overall confidence than that of the Ford 6.7 diesel owners.

This is broad sword stuff, clearly there are varying opinions and mine is only one of millions. I'm no truck expert, not implying otherwise. Just reporting my findings, which were ultimately unfavorable towards buying a Ford.

One of the principle concerns was all the high pressure fuel pump failures with the new 6.7 diesels. You won't believe me naturally, just Google Ford failed HPFP. Put on a pot of coffee first. I wasn't seeking dirt on Ford when I found out about this stuff. I was wanting to buy one and doing my due diligence.

The larger issue, in numerous accounts, Ford refused to repair vehicles with HPFP failures although they were still under warranty. They weasled out of warranty claims using some unsavory and creative ideas in the reports I found. Like I said, research it yourself, will take about 5-10 minutes to confirm.

The overall quality of Ram Laramie and up trim, and Chevy 2500 LT up, is in another league in my humble opinion. That doesn't make the Ford a bad truck. I try not to use blanket statements like fanboys and Kool Aid drinkers. They help no one and make us seem like silly cheerleaders.

All the manufacturers are making higher quality trucks now than ever, I truly believe that. But when spending $45-60k on a truck, I think it's worth being honest with ourselves and others. I'm sure I would be happy in a new F-350 with 6.7. But I'm of the opinion I will be much happier in another truck. Nothing personal about that.


Dan

Dan,
Dodge,GM and Ford all use Bosch HPFP pumps. Ford puts the Def fill right next to the fuel fill for easier access and it is easy to make this mistake if you are not paying attention.Adding Def (or gas) to your fuel tank voids your warranty and instantly ruins a $10k pump. Def is urine and very corrosive.Ford will not warranty if they test and find this to be true.
I still say a mini van is in your future.Lol


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Old 08-22-2015, 10:55 PM   #23
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Dan,
Dodge,GM and Ford all use Bosch HPFP pumps. Ford puts the Def fill right next to the fuel fill for easier access and it is easy to make this mistake if you are not paying attention.Adding Def (or gas) to your fuel tank voids your warranty and instantly ruins a $10k pump. Def is urine and very corrosive.Ford will not warranty if they test and find this to be true.
I still say a mini van is in your future.Lol
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Old 08-22-2015, 11:57 PM   #24
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Dan,
Dodge,GM and Ford all use Bosch HPFP pumps. Ford puts the Def fill right next to the fuel fill for easier access and it is easy to make this mistake if you are not paying attention.Adding Def (or gas) to your fuel tank voids your warranty and instantly ruins a $10k pump. Def is urine and very corrosive.Ford will not warranty if they test and find this to be true.
I still say a mini van is in your future.Lol


That's the good thing about being comfortable with ones manhood. I could drive a pastel pink hybrid mini-van and feel no less manly. Get Andy to set up a purple WD hitch, buy me some Daryl Hall and John Oates DVD's and drive my manly ass back to NC. Can't say the same for someone that has to buy a brand new BIG truck every 2-3 years.

Lol

Dan
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Old 08-23-2015, 12:30 AM   #25
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Pappy, what are you trying to pedal with this thread? Some brand insecurity goin' on? ;-)

I'll go along with this... Ford trucks are ok, but from my experience, they're nothing special. I've had an F-150 and an F-250. They were ok. Nothing special, though. And the new ones, as Dan mentioned, were uninviting to me, as well. Basically... BORING. And not so great to look at.

The new Ford diesel may have a little more power than the competition, but having a few more or less ponies under the hood is far from what I buy a truck for. Once you have the power of today's turbo diesels, the "power" race is over in my view. What else can you do for me?

Big deal... a few more ponies? Is that all anyone looks for in a truck to pull an Airstream? Sheesh. After all, Ford's last diesel engine was a joke... they had to try something new. Hopefully this new engine will work more reliably than the last version did. It will take some years and a lot of buyers to find out. I'm not buying into it, though.

After my last two Ford trucks, when it came time to buy my current truck, Ford lost out big time. I mean, they're OK. I'm sure they're not BAD trucks. They just sort of suck compared to the GMs and Dodge.

Honestly, any of the big three current trucks will get the job done well, I'm sure, but I don't buy what you think "the crowd is going for."

Usually what's MOST popular is pablum. The masses like pablum... it's a soft and easy choice. They don't have to think too much about it. Go with the flow, be a like a sheep, and east pablum! ;-)

Personally, I don't care who sells the most trucks because I don't tend to follow the crowd, unless I'm convinced that the crowd is right. But often, the crowd gets it wrong, because most of the crowd are sheep.

I'm going to be the wolf and buy the truck that I think is the best... and for me, that's GM... Sierras and Silverados. I'd probably buy a Dodge next, then Ford. Foreign brands? Forget it... I don't care where they're made. Ultimately, I'm sure I could be plenty happy with a Dodge or a Ford, as well. They just wouldn't be my first choice.

So... whatever you are trying to pedal by starting this thread... my view is that I don't buy vehicles based on whatever the masses are doing; I buy vehicles based on what I think is the best! This time around, my vote was easy.... GM all the way, baby. Tried and true Duramax/Allison. GMs got a great thing going, they are building awesome trucks and selling like hotcakes! The Fords? Meh. They're ok. They're ok. That's about all I can say for 'em. Any of the Big Three are pretty good trucks. But Ford being "the winner" ... not in my book, by any means. They don't even look good.

I guess I need to tattoo GM on my forehead! I'm the GM posterboy, now, I guess! I love these trucks and I don't even care if they're the biggest sellers or not (though I guess they are the biggest sellers).



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Old 08-23-2015, 01:30 AM   #26
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Quality es job uno, seņor.
Good one, RareSteam!!!

And it's off to Mexico Ford goes!

Let's hope that in 2016, some of these job losses can be reversed.
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Old 08-23-2015, 01:35 AM   #27
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Dan said "Let's not let the Kool Aid influence our judgement. Jones Town ended poorly."

Oh man... you just crack me up. And every day, I see we're more and more on the same page.
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Old 08-23-2015, 01:39 AM   #28
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Pappy, what are you trying to pedal with this thread?

Some brand insecurity goin' on? ;-)


I've identified at least two different types of insecurities here


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