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Old 09-04-2013, 05:45 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Denis4x4 View Post
When we bought the GC, we went through the 25' Safari FB and removed hundreds of pounds of crap. Net weight when we were done was 6300# without water, with propane.
Did you toss personal stuff or did you remove Airstream parts?
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:37 PM   #16
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I know nothing about towing with a GC so can't comment on that, but feel the need to correct some misinformation about weights. I often see comments about payload capacity and tongue weights being the limiting factor when towing. In fact, payload/tongue weights only become the determining factor when towing WITHOUT a weight distribution hitch (WDH). Most everyone reading these forums tows with a WDH (or should be), so lets start with that assumption.

The payload capacity is typically the manufacturer's recommended weight that you can simply toss in a trunk and not exceed a vehicles design spec. In a non-pickup type truck, it is related to the weight the rear axle can take less the curb weight over the rear axle.

The correct weight carrying forumula when using a properly adjusted WDH that distributes the tongue weight across both front rear axles is GWVR - Curb weight. The resulting number represents the total weight carrying capacity of the particular vehicle including tongue weight, cargo and passengers, but it's often much higher than the simple payload capacity.

Bottom line: when towing anything approaching max capacity be careful about making generalized statements -- the devil is always in the details.
Go to the scales and learn what the real world weights are.

It doesn't matter if your using a properly set-up WD hitch or not, or where the load is being distributed.
If the scales say your overloaded, you are. If your 500lbs over the axle, tire, tongue or payload you can't just wish it away.
Your WD can be perfect, your rig level as the devil but the weight is still there.

Be careful about making generalized statements about someone else's generalized statements.

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Old 09-04-2013, 08:31 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Garfield View Post
I know nothing about towing with a GC so can't comment on that, but feel the need to correct some misinformation about weights. I often see comments about payload capacity and tongue weights being the limiting factor when towing. In fact, payload/tongue weights only become the determining factor when towing WITHOUT a weight distribution hitch (WDH). Most everyone reading these forums tows with a WDH (or should be), so lets start with that assumption.

The payload capacity is typically the manufacturer's recommended weight that you can simply toss in a trunk and not exceed a vehicles design spec. In a non-pickup type truck, it is related to the weight the rear axle can take less the curb weight over the rear axle.

The correct weight carrying forumula when using a properly adjusted WDH that distributes the tongue weight across both front rear axles is GWVR - Curb weight. The resulting number represents the total weight carrying capacity of the particular vehicle including tongue weight, cargo and passengers, but it's often much higher than the simple payload capacity.

Bottom line: when towing anything approaching max capacity be careful about making generalized statements -- the devil is always in the details.
With due respect, I have to disagree. Payload is payload and has nothing to do with weight distribution. Its a fixed number which you should not exceed, whether you are using weight distribution hitch or not.

As far as tongue weight is concerned, manufacturers whose vehicle support weight distribution hitches specify two limits for tongue weight: one for not using weight distribution (usually called Weight Carrying), and one for using weight distribution. Weight distribution tongue weight is usually higher than weight carrying, but is still a limiting factor. Even when using weight distribution hitch you should not exceed that.

There is a third limiting factor, Axle weight ratings. Payload, tongue weight, and axle ratings usually decide (limit) your tow rating, not the advertised vehicle tow rating, which is a marketing gimmick and only valid for some ideal/unrealistic situation (Only the driver in TV, no cargo, etc.).
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam View Post
Did you toss personal stuff or did you remove Airstream parts?
Most of the weight reduction came fom tossing kitchen stuff and enough tools to rebuild the engine by the side of the road. Also re-organized stuff to distribute the load better. After 30 plus years of RV'ing, there is a tendency to stock far more than you need. As a former sailor, it made sense to carry a kit to rebuild the water pump or head. Not really necessary to carry that crap in an AS. On our last three day trip to a USFS campground, I figured that I do not need 38 gallons of water. So by taking 25 gallons, I'll drop better than 100 pounds.

AS dealers should be required to take every new buyer by the hand and show them how public scales really work. The GC tow rating is 7200#. At 6200#, I'm well within the capacity of this vehicle, even considering the 1050 tongue weight using a Propride WDH.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:51 PM   #19
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Engine power is rarely an issue these days.

The numbers I would check are the available payload of your Jeep and how does that correlate to the hitch weight of the trailer.
Don't tell a pilot to ignore payload and balance it in flight ... physics be darned ... the same forces are at work on the TV. Before the WDH is "tensioned", excessive load on the hitch CAN cause damage to the TV. Is there a WDH that does not need to be loaded after the initial hook up so that the TV sees only the WDH load and not the true tongue weight... YMMV
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:25 AM   #20
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Jerry, that doesn't stand up to reason.

If my hitch receiver is rated for 750# w/o w.d. and 1000# with w.d. you are saying lowering my 1000# trailer tongue weight onto the hitch receiver can damage the truck.

But if I put a 750# tongue weight trailer on the receiver without w.d. and drive over a bump in the road, the probable g-force on the truck receiver exceeded 750# and the truck is now damaged.

I don't think so.

doug
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:21 AM   #21
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I have a 2012 25fb and an 06 grand Cherokee with the hemi. I have not altered either the trailer or the tow vehicle and it works just fine. We carry a lot of stuff. It took me many, many trips to get used to how the whole system works but with a Reese dual cam hitch and 800 lb bars it runs just fine even along the shore of Lake Michigan in a high wind warning. My only gripe is 9 mpg and for that reason I am looking for a new tow vehicle that would also give me a little more storage. Complicated by the fact that my wife "hates" the idea of a truck. So, I am open to suggestions.
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:45 AM   #22
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Jwestman, the 2014 Dodge Durango has the Hemi and 8-spd transmission with a longer wheelbase than GC (slightly more stable) and a little more storage. Very similar to new GC chassis, independent suspension all around.

The new Hemi/8-spd is a great improvement in economy.

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Old 09-05-2013, 03:32 PM   #23
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Thanks Doug!
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:11 AM   #24
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Over the weekend I saw two WK2 Grand Cherokees (2011-2013) pulling Airstreams (one was a 25') through Durango.
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:56 AM   #25
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I am looking for a new tow vehicle that would also give me a little more storage. Complicated by the fact that my wife "hates" the idea of a truck. So, I am open to suggestions.
If the Grand Cherokee is working well for you, (you said you verified your weights are all good) and the wife hates trucks, and you want to get better gas mileage with more pulling power than what you have now, sounds like the diesel version of the 2014 Grand Cherokee was made for you!

My lady too hates trucks, but my 2500 Ram is as nice and comfortable as any Lincoln/Cadillac SUV.
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Old 10-17-2013, 05:15 PM   #26
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Thanks for all the tips.

Thanks everyone for all the tips. It definitely helped me with my decision. I ended up going with the 23' Int Serenity, 2013 Cayenne Diesel, and an Equalizer weight distribution hitch. Seems to tow effortlessly and I am getting over 20mpg towing.

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Old 10-17-2013, 08:02 PM   #27
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I just bought a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V6 8-speed tranny with factory tow package. I had Andy Thompson reinforce the factory hitch. It was a simple weldment and it did noticably strengthen the hitch. I can take a picture of it if somebody wants to do it themselves. The Jeep brouchure I have states a hitch weight of 1,200 pounds when using weight distribution. But you cannot find that statement in the owners manual. I just used the Jeep GC for a two week camping trip from Chicago to Jasper and Revelstoke Canada. Towing a 5,400 pound fully loaded, 1978 25 ft. Tradewind with disc brakes. The Jeep did a fine job on the TransCanada highway, a little slow going up secondary road steep grades but no problem. 12 mpg towing the Tradewind, 21 mpg around town with no trailer, 24 mpg on the highway with no trailer. The Jeep is a good compromise for a good mileage daily driver and (unfortunately)infrequent trailer towing.
John,
I'd appreciate a photo of the receiver reinforcement. Andy's shop is just too far away from Durango, CO. I have a 2014 GC Diesel on order. My 08 GC Diesel has been a fine tow vehicle for our 2011 FC23FB.

Cheers,
Joe
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:51 AM   #28
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Joe, you are getting the rig that I wanted. I just couldn't wait for it.

Send me your email. I'll try and get pictures this weekend.

johnhejmanowski at gmail dot com
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