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Old 03-16-2010, 09:28 PM   #1
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2011 Ford 350 with no adds on

After many phone calls and research on the internet, I have come to the decision that my SUV (G55 AMG) is not the adequate TV for my future AS 27 International.

I am looking to get the upcoming F350 diesel 6.7.

Now, the question:

With a TV like that one, including such towing capacity, anti sway feature, brake controller,... do I need to add those special hitches, stabilization bars and sway controller mentioned all over this forum? or will the "as built' hitch suffice?

tx
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:36 PM   #2
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That truck will yank that trailer around like it not even thereÖ I tow my 30í classic with a F350 06 ford Diesel, started off using a weight distribution and sway control. Last year I installed air bags in the truck and ditched all clunky hardware for a simple heavy duty ball mount hitch at the right height. I got to tell you I really cannot tell a difference, and I think the truck rides betterÖ. Iím sure a whole lot of people would tell me Iím crazy for towing like this but I think it works fine if you have the right truck, keep it simple. People tow heavy boats, and other types of heavy trailers all around the country with these trucks you donít see special hitches on these, what makes a Airstream any different? Now If I was towing with a lighter under power truck I would go back to a weight distribution hitch.
I have my eye on the same truck, looks like itís going to be a hell of a truck I just hope itís not going to be the 03í 6.0 all over again but Iím hoping Ford learned a lesson in 03í. I bought one of the first 03í in my town, turned out to be a pile of s*!t, and Ford bought it back, my 06í has 75K miles on it and has been 100% trouble free!
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamana View Post
...With a TV like that one, including such towing capacity, anti sway feature, brake controller,... do I need to add those special hitches, stabilization bars and sway controller mentioned all over this forum? or will the "as built' hitch suffice?
gamana...

towing capacity and a built in brake controller don't alter the need for a w/d hitch with LARGER 'streams...

and there are MANY options in hitch apparatus brands and designs...

some withOUT sway dampening, some WITH sway dampening and SOME with sway ELIMINATION.

sorta.
_____________

the new 'sway controller' built into the truck takes info from yaw/motion sensors and variably applies the brakes or cuts power.

somewhat the same approach as the modern traction/stability control modules on cars but with a focus on yaw control.

i think that these new "ON BOARD" trailer sway computer controls are some what like 1st GENERATION anti lock braking systems...

it's a good idea and might be useful,

but will definitely be CHANGED over several revisions before it is really really good.
______________

with your new 27 the 3/4 ton (F250) has plenty of payload and towing capacity.

so WHY are you headed for the 350?

we could itemize the differences between the new F250/350s but not tonight.

check back in a week or two..

anyway i WILL continue to use one of those "fancy hitches" regardless of truck upgrades...
_________

'stabilization bars'? i dunno what u mean...

IF this is reference to "anti-sway/roll bars" on the truck, well that's a personal choice.

the ford comes WITH a front anti-s/r bar standard, and the rear bar can be added.

i have both and they help the TRUCK corner FLATTER (not roll/lean) when driven UN-hitched...

they have very little impact on towing control.

but IF slide IN CAMPER is mounted they do help with LEAN and the higher center of gravity.
___________

there is no "as built hitch" on these trucks...

there IS a factory supplied RECEIVER and it's a very good one.

the RECIEVER is the the chunk of iron bolted ON under the rear bumper...

with the 2 inch or 2.5 inch SQUARE HOLE for the actual HITCH (u supply) shank insertion.
___________

ford has a very good "towing guide" u might wanna spend some time reading...

here as a PDF file (it's the 2010 version, the '11 is out yet) ...

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/...0RVTrailer.pdf

this covers the basics and most TERMINOLOGY which is important.

the new 250 would be a NICE tow vehicle for your new trayla!

cheers
2air'
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Old 03-17-2010, 05:09 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmgt350h View Post
That truck will yank that trailer around like it not even there… I tow my 30’ classic with a F350 06 ford Diesel, started off using a weight distribution and sway control. Last year I installed air bags in the truck and ditched all clunky hardware for a simple heavy duty ball mount hitch at the right height. I got to tell you I really cannot tell a difference, and I think the truck rides better…. I’m sure a whole lot of people would tell me I’m crazy for towing like this but I think it works fine if you have the right truck, keep it simple.


Well, it's your truck, but know that those setups tend to result in crashes. I don't think they're safe. You might want to make a trip over the scales to see how much weight is on the front axle.

Quote:
People tow heavy boats, and other types of heavy trailers all around the country with these trucks you don’t see special hitches on these, what makes a Airstream any different?
Just because the boat guys do it doesn't mean it's safe and I don't think there are very many boat guys who tow extensively at high speeds/long distances with a 30' trailer. They also generally have less wind area. Most of the boat guys around here who tow much have boats that are 20' or less and fairly light compared to a 30' classic.
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Old 03-17-2010, 06:42 AM   #5
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For what its worth I tow with an '06 F350 DRW Crewcab that is also set up to carry a Lance 1181. So, I have AirLift bags on the rear along with adjustable shocks. The truck came stock with a brake controller. I was advised to use an AirSafe hitch Receiver as some say the stiff truck suspension is hard on the trailer. Its more truck than is necessary but the long wheel base and dual rear wheels make it very stable. If tows effortlessly and safely. I don't recall ever hearing anybody say: "Gee, I wish I had bought a smaller truck." On the other hand, if fuel prices go out of sight again it may be heard more frequently.
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:29 AM   #6
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In my case, putting a weight distribution hitch between my 8,500 pound, 22.5 foot long Chevy dually and my 4,300 pound, 25' Airstream would be like a four year old "helping" six grown men to move a grand piano. Pointless, and more in the way than anything else.
It's simple physics. The truck is a diesel and already extremely nose heavy. The tongue weight of the trailer simply gets a little weight on to the four rear tires and actually serves to stabilize the truck. The truck is long enough and heavy enough to more than absorb any weight the AS is putting on it and is designed primarily to tow heavy loads. There is no single towing setup that works for every vehicle with every trailer. There are simply too many variables to take into account.
The simple fact of the matter is that not all trucks need a weight distribution hitch to tow some Airstreams. If I were towing a 34-footer with a slide out, I'd use a WD hitch even behind my dually. However, it would only serve to add additional stresses and likely damage my 41-year-old Tradewind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammer View Post

Well, it's your truck, but know that those setups tend to result in crashes. I don't think they're safe. You might want to make a trip over the scales to see how much weight is on the front axle.

Just because the boat guys do it doesn't mean it's safe and I don't think there are very many boat guys who tow extensively at high speeds/long distances with a 30' trailer. They also generally have less wind area. Most of the boat guys around here who tow much have boats that are 20' or less and fairly light compared to a 30' classic.
The boats that most often get towed all over the country are offshore race boats. Most weigh considerably more than even the heaviest of Airstreams. and are around 40 feet long. Tow vehicle - usually a 1-ton dually of some sort with NO weight distribution hitch. As for surface area, a '35-'40 enclsed car hauler is about as aerodynamic as a brick and you never see those hitched up with any sort of fancy magical hitch.
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:39 AM   #7
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Personal Opinion only
I feel the F350 Dually is overkill for towing an Airstream. An F250 is heavy enough,a crewcab with an 8ft bed gives you the wheelbase that will give you ride.Single rear wheel is sufficent,find or order a 3:55 rearend ratio.
Some kind of sway control (not on the truck) is a must.I use a simple Reese Old Style Straightline WD hitch with 550 lb bars its simple to hook up,it does the job without a huge investment.
However if you are into Exotic hitches ,the pro-pride would be what I would buy.Its simple and fast to hook up,once you know how.For an inexperienced driver I would recommend it.
I have 45 yrs of towing of all length of trailers from my little 12 ft flat to 53ft big rigs,I would never pull my AS without my Reese WD Straightline Hitch.
Its yours PAY NO ATTENTION to the OLD MAN behind the curtain he has only towed for 45 yrs he dont know what he is doin.
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:24 AM   #8
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The 2011 F series 6.7 diesel engine will be or is being manufactured at the new billion dollar Ford plant in Chihuahua Mexico. I have a 6.4 2008 F Super Duty and admire it very much but I question the wisdom of Ford investing all those resources in Chihuahua as opposed to, say, Dearborn Michigan. (IMHO)
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Old 03-18-2010, 10:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
gamana...

towing capacity and a built in brake controller don't alter the need for a w/d hitch with LARGER 'streams...

and there are MANY options in hitch apparatus brands and designs...

some withOUT sway dampening, some WITH sway dampening and SOME with sway ELIMINATION.

sorta.

you see that's what i don't get. I would honestly be surprised if companies like Ford/GM/Dodge that build pick up trucks mainly to tow, don't take into account a weight transfer when trailers are hooked up. Most of those pick up do have their butts up in the air with no towing load so there must be some sort of average load distribution calculated by the manufacturer. If you get close to the limits of your TV, i can understand that you might need extra gear but to tow around 8,000lbs with a TV rated at 15,000lbs, why??? [/COLOR][/SIZE]
_____________

the new 'sway controller' built into the truck takes info from yaw/motion sensors and variably applies the brakes or cuts power.

somewhat the same approach as the modern traction/stability control modules on cars but with a focus on yaw control.

i think that these new "ON BOARD" trailer sway computer controls are some what like 1st GENERATION anti lock braking systems...

it's a good idea and might be useful,

but will definitely be CHANGED over several revisions before it is really really good.

Maybe but it is now standard on those vehicles so let's see
______________

with your new 27 the 3/4 ton (F250) has plenty of payload and towing capacity.

so WHY are you headed for the 350?

I will sometimes be pulling large horse trailers as well.

we could itemize the differences between the new F250/350s but not tonight.

check back in a week or two..

anyway i WILL continue to use one of those "fancy hitches" regardless of truck upgrades...
_________

'stabilization bars'? i dunno what u mean...

IF this is reference to "anti-sway/roll bars" on the truck, well that's a personal choice.

the ford comes WITH a front anti-s/r bar standard, and the rear bar can be added.

i have both and they help the TRUCK corner FLATTER (not roll/lean) when driven UN-hitched...

they have very little impact on towing control.

but IF slide IN CAMPER is mounted they do help with LEAN and the higher center of gravity.
___________

there is no "as built hitch" on these trucks...

there IS a factory supplied RECEIVER and it's a very good one.

the RECIEVER is the the chunk of iron bolted ON under the rear bumper...

with the 2 inch or 2.5 inch SQUARE HOLE for the actual HITCH (u supply) shank insertion.
___________

ford has a very good "towing guide" u might wanna spend some time reading...

here as a PDF file (it's the 2010 version, the '11 is out yet) ...

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/...0RVTrailer.pdf

this covers the basics and most TERMINOLOGY which is important.

the new 250 would be a NICE tow vehicle for your new trayla!

cheers
2air'
thanks
G
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Old 03-18-2010, 10:35 AM   #10
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[QUOTE=Journalist;825089] The truck is a diesel and already extremely nose heavy. The tongue weight of the trailer simply gets a little weight on to the four rear tires and actually serves to stabilize the truck. The truck is long enough and heavy enough to more than absorb any weight the AS is putting on it and is designed primarily to tow heavy loads.

That's exactly the point I tend to agree with. What's the point of buying a vehicle specifically for towing if it needs the same extra gear as other vehicles.
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Old 03-18-2010, 11:54 AM   #11
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I have a 2001 F350 7.3 Diesel FWD Super Cab with an 8' bed. With or without the WD hitch, it tows extremely well. My 2009 Flying Cloud 27FB weighs about 8,000 pounds. I can even accelerate going up grades. Not enough miles yet to determine a long term average, but so for it looks about 12-14 miles per gallon. I'm in the market for the new 2011 Ford Diesel and in fact there will be an opportunity to see and drive one here in Portland at a Ford Dealer on 3/24. While the F350 has a higher load capacity, the F250 has the same towing capacity. I've had both F250's and F350's because I used to have a Lance camper. I'm going for the F250 this time. The F250 still has lots of cargo weight rating, but it costs a little less than the F350 and does seem to ride a little bit better. Regardless the F250 with the new diesel will be a great TV. The controversial issues on this forum related to a heavy duty TV are three and I'm still trying to sort them out.

1. Does a heavy duty truck need a WD hitch? and:
2. If it does need a WD hitch, does it need sway control? and:
3. If it does need a WD hitch, what pound rating should the torsion bars be?

Good luck sorting that out here. If you've read this post, I'm sure you're getting a taste of the controversy. Let me know if you figure it out. Hal
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Old 03-18-2010, 12:37 PM   #12
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[QUOTE=gamana;825672]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Journalist View Post
...What's the point of buying a vehicle specifically for towing if it needs the same extra gear as other vehicles...
the spectrum of vehicles used for towing is wide and filled with compromises...

seldom does debating that tv spectrum and ALL the compromises help when the focus is ONE specific truck.

and NEED is debated in the same vein as DESIRABLE or USEFUL or HELPFUL or WOW THAT's NICE...

having a TWEAKED merc' u should understand the difference between NEED and OOOH-AHHH when it comes to vehicles...
__________

i purchased a 250 SPECIFICALLY for towing, and because of the SPACE available to carry stuff while towing.

NOSE heavy with the diesel engine is largely irrelevant, this has been explained in many threads.

besides the NEW mota' in d'ford is lighter !
____________

after loading the bed AND adding the trailer tongue weight the balance point CAN shift slightly even with these big long trucks...

and this results in LESS than ideal steering control OR overloading the rear axle.

i can (and have) EASILY OVERLOAD the rear/drive axle without the w/d gear (and the axle is rated at >6,000 lbs)

the evidence for this changes comes from WEIGHING the truck before and AFTER hitch'n.

again, many threads cover this info with details about those changes...

UNload the steering axle 1-200 lbs and no significant changes may be felt...

however just a TAD more (200-300 or 400 lbs) OFF the front end and the NEGATIVE change is apparent.

IF u want/need the threads on these issues (because you REALLY wanna understand) we can point u there.
____________

NOW if you are buying a DUALLY 350, the game changes...

because a DUALLY has so much higher payload and rear axle rating.

so w/d MIGHT not be required for a 27 behind a 6 wheel truck,

but sway control is still an issue.

AND the RECEIVER attached at the back/under the truck is still rated for NO W/D vs WITH W/D

and THAT parameter changes significantly (regardless of the truck's INHERENT capability to carry a load) ...
_____________

you have not supplied ANY insight into what the rvin' will entail...

short trips near home, gentle 2 lane back roads?

or long trips cross the big ridges in all sorts of weather and driving quickly in multi lane traffic?

the gear requirements may vary some depending on your camping and towing vision and past experiences.

this isn't to suggest SAFETY is dictated by some magic formula or ANY one piece of gear.

in my travels the CRAP i use for towing makes the journey and experience MORE RELAXED while driving...

even at breakneck speeds...

cheers
2air'
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Old 03-18-2010, 03:18 PM   #13
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...I question the wisdom of Ford investing all those resources in Chihuahua as opposed to, say, Dearborn Michigan. (IMHO)
I'd be willing to bet that the plant in Chihuahua doesn't have unions like Dearborn does.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:51 PM   #14
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Have you noticed that the new Ford 6.7 ltr equipped trucks have a separate 'tank' for the new DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) with the fill cap right next to the fuel tank cap....

This new DEF is necessary to meet new emissions standards...you'll need to refill it about every 7,500 miles, and the stuff is available at Ford Dealers, of course!!...wonder what that's going to cost???

Ain't 'progress' wonderful....

Ray
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