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Old 10-02-2012, 01:11 PM   #43
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Ford also figures in 150lbs for the driver of the truck.
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:15 PM   #44
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Ford also figures in 150lbs for the driver of the truck.
WOW! They missed by a long shot with that estimate on me.
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:02 PM   #45
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Woof,
I would like more engine power at times, but do not have any concerns over control or braking.

Don
I agree. I believe that when you know that you are at or over the GV or rear axle weight rating that as long as you drive defensively and cautiously and don't have any concerns over control or braking, that you can still tow in a safe and responsible manner. It is just another of life's many compromises. Not everyone can afford or wants what comes with a 60k diesel TV.

Dan
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:06 PM   #46
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Found this on-line for 2011 models, they probably have one for '10's but did take the time to look.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...d_Workbook.pdf
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:12 PM   #47
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I faced a similar situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by woof View Post
I have a 2010 F150 5.4L with tow package, rated to tow 9600lbs
its a super crew short box, 145" wheel base with a 3.55 axel ratio
the max tongue weight is 1050lbs.

I will have 4 passengers and two large dogs inside weighing in at 750lbs.

I am looking at the 2013 25FB flying cloud which has a tongue weight of 837lbs and max gross weight of 7300lbs.

Does a hitch weight of 837 on the trailer mean you are putting 837lbs on your truck? I have read so many treads and everyone always says to "watch that payload". There is a sticker on the door of the truck that says "the total weight
of passengers and cargo should not exceed 1368lbs".

How does a weight distributing hitch effect the payload number?

I know the truck can pull it, I just need to know if the family can come too?
My situation was similar, but with less passengers.

I towed my 25' Safari for two years with a 2010 Silverado 1500. I went on three 2000 +/- mile trips and several shorter trips through the Appalachian mountains, all without issues. I only had two passengers, my wife and me. Normally all I had in the truck bed was a tool box, a Honda 2000 generator, and a few other light weight things. Each of the several times I stopped on the scales fully loaded the tow vehicle was always right at the GVRW. I recently upgraded to a 2500 for this reason.

To answer your questions:
With a weight distributing hitch, the payload limit of the tow vehicle stays the same. WD only affects the distribution of the payload by shifting weight from the rear axle to the front axle of the tow vehicle.

Yes, you can take the family. But do you want to risk their lives by exceeding the tow vehicle's limits?
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:13 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moflash View Post
Ford also figures in 150lbs for the driver of the truck.
I believe that payload is confusing and you can't measure it directly. The only spec that counts is GVWR of the TV and the rear axle rating. Like a previous poster said, drive your TV with yourself, a full tank of fuel and normal stuff in the truck to a CAT scale. Weigh your truck. Subtract this weight from the truck GVWR and this is your real payload.

Dan
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Old 10-02-2012, 02:35 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moflash View Post
Ford also figures in 150lbs for the driver of the truck.
I believe that payload is confusing and you can't measure it directly. The only spec that counts is GVWR of the TV and the rear axle rating. Like a previous poster said, drive your TV with yourself, a full tank of fuel and normal stuff in the truck to a CAT scale. Weigh your truck. Subtract this weight from the truck GVWR and this is your real payload.

Dan
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:05 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A W Warn View Post
Yes, you can take the family. But do you want to risk their lives by exceeding the tow vehicle's limits?
Alan

I am an engineer and I don't believe it is that simple. At my last weigh in I was 370 lbs under the rear axle weight rating of 4,100 lbs, but 60 lbs over the GVWR of the TV of 6,900 lbs. I certainly don't believe that I am putting my families lives (and others on the road) at risk. There are just so many other variables. As Don said, as long as you can tow so that you have confidence in your control and braking ability, then you are OK. We all have to make this decision. The more knowledge we have, the better we can do at making this decision.

Back when I was towing my 84 Excella with my 93 GMC 3/4 ton van, I really did not know very much about towing. My Excella weighed about 500 lbs less that the max trailer weight rating of the van, but I felt like the control and braking was totally inadequate. So back then, I was ignorant and believed that I was towing under the max specs of the TV. So I was "legal" because I was towing at less than the manufacturers numbers,yet I felt unsafe due to the poor handling and inadequate braking of my towing rig.

This was the primary reason why I bought a new Tundra in 08.

Dan
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Old 10-02-2012, 04:42 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringDan View Post
Alan

I am an engineer and I don't believe it is that simple. At my last weigh in I was 370 lbs under the rear axle weight rating of 4,100 lbs, but 60 lbs over the GVWR of the TV of 6,900 lbs. I certainly don't believe that I am putting my families lives (and others on the road) at risk. There are just so many other variables. As Don said, as long as you can tow so that you have confidence in your control and braking ability, then you are OK. We all have to make this decision. The more knowledge we have, the better we can do at making this decision.

Back when I was towing my 84 Excella with my 93 GMC 3/4 ton van, I really did not know very much about towing. My Excella weighed about 500 lbs less that the max trailer weight rating of the van, but I felt like the control and braking was totally inadequate. So back then, I was ignorant and believed that I was towing under the max specs of the TV. So I was "legal" because I was towing at less than the manufacturers numbers,yet I felt unsafe due to the poor handling and inadequate braking of my towing rig.

This was the primary reason why I bought a new Tundra in 08.

Dan
Dan,

I'm no engineer. I guess you are correct in most of what you are saying and probably 99.99% of the time I would agree. I too have exceeded my TV's GVRW a few pounds many times, felt safe and confident, without having a bad experience. My experience towing makes me concerned with that other .01% of the time. I consider myself experienced since I started towing back in the 60's, when I was a teenager.

I had and still have confidence in my towing abilities, to do what I think is "ok" and "safe". Since having a loss of control accident, two years ago, when the weather changed (one of those variables) while the TV was near the GVRW, my attitude has changed. I was not exceeding the speed limit. I was not over the GCRW. The trailer was more than one ton below the TV's towing capacity. The first thing the LEO said to me, after asking if we were ok, was, "I think your trailer is a little to heavy for your truck". I did not get a ticket, nor did the tractor/trailer rig driver that hit us broadside.

Since my wife and I have been through this accident while towing our Airstream trailer, and luckily we both survived relatively unharmed, I tend to go a little overboard with caution. (Both TV and TT were total loss) I certainly would not recommend that anyone exceed the TV manufacturer's load limits. Safety is more important than any other consideration.

After that wreck I got a new 1/2 ton truck and the new to me 25' trailer. I checked the load capacities of the truck and the weight of the trailer to make sure everything was adequate. I read other's experiences about towing on this forum. After this research I assumed what I had was "ok" and "safe". At first I did feel safe, but after going to the scales I did not feel the same. I probably could have towed the rest if my life without any problems, but that chance of an accident kept nagging me!!! We are planning to head south for the winter, probably for 2,000 miles or so towing this trip. I felt so strongly that I was right on the edge of the safe limits of my TV that I traded the 2010 1/2 ton truck (that I really loved) with 40,000 miles for a 3/4 ton.

I still have confidence in what I do. But, now I am more cautious and urge everyone else to do the same. When my rig is heavy I go slower. When it rains I go slower still. When there is ice I stay where I am.

Bring your family home safely!

Alan
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:18 PM   #52
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It is simply bogus to advise anyone their family will be be suddenly "safe" by getting a heavier duty truck. Many, many variables come into play once on the road. Not the least of which is that a heavier duty truck in most cases will be harder to control in accident avoidance maneuvers.

Your Airstream is unique among travel trailers with it's low profile aerodynamic design, low center-of-gravity, and excellent handling independent suspension. For safety purposes you would be well-served by a capable tow vehicle that has similar characteristics.

doug k
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:25 PM   #53
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Woof,
Although putting your wife and kids in the trailer is probably not going to be a popular solution, it'll solve your problem, just make them sit/stand over the axles . . .

Actually it should be mentioned (and I read thru the thread to see if it already was, and didn't find it . . . (but I'm not the brightest bulb in the tool box - see above) . . . anyway, putting non-precious items in the trailer, preferably over the axles, should also help.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:32 PM   #54
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I know that I am going to get some grief for this post.
But here goes. My diesel Ford F350 can pull most anything I put behind it without going into the macros of how much a person weighs.
Yes we go thru this in our AS as far as the max weight, then we just transfer the other to our TV to specs which are built in to a larger range. Which means we can haul more if we choose to do so.
Diesel pickups are built to haul things. Built to last hauling things. That is their purpose. Gas pickups are today and for many years are built to drive to a very specific range. If you choose to haul things to the maximum ratio of your gas truck then you are depending on the non real world of specific haul ratios.
Have read many posts on here of gas vs diesels and have yet to read one about lifetime endurance comparison. Engines, trannies of gas vs diesel.
Passed many many gas TV's struggling up hills in Wyoming on I25 while we held a steady speed. Temps held at normal range for engine and transmission.
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Old 10-02-2012, 10:00 PM   #55
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Quote:
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Dan
Since my wife and I have been through this accident while towing our Airstream trailer, and luckily we both survived relatively unharmed, I tend to go a little overboard with caution. (Both TV and TT were total loss) I certainly would not recommend that anyone exceed the TV manufacturer's load limits. Safety is more important than any other consideration.

After that wreck I got a new 1/2 ton truck and the new to me 25' trailer. I checked the load capacities of the truck and the weight of the trailer to make sure everything was adequate. I read other's experiences about towing on this forum. After this research I assumed what I had was "ok" and "safe". At first I did feel safe, but after going to the scales I did not feel the same. I probably could have towed the rest if my life without any problems, but that chance of an accident kept nagging me!!! We are planning to head south for the winter, probably for 2,000 miles or so towing this trip. I felt so strongly that I was right on the edge of the safe limits of my TV that I traded the 2010 1/2 ton truck (that I really loved) with 40,000 miles for a 3/4 ton.

I still have confidence in what I do. But, now I am more cautious and urge everyone else to do the same. When my rig is heavy I go slower. When it rains I go slower still. When there is ice I stay where I am.

Bring your family home safely!

Alan
Alan

Having been through that bad loss of control accident, I understand why you are extra cautious and no longer felt safe towing "on the edge". I also go slower when my rig is heavy, or it is raining or there are visibility issues. I don't care if it takes longer to get there, I just want to make sure that I make it there period.

Do you know really why you lost control? Was it due to your towing "on the edge" or some other factors like tires or tire pressure? If you really don't know, I can understand going to a 3/4 ton TV because, in your mind you are thinking that maybe that really was the cause of the loss of control accident.

I sincerely hope that you are able to tow accident free from here on out (along with all the other Airstreamers out there).

Dan
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:54 AM   #56
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I've been in a similar situation and gave up, bought a new F250 Diesel with 10,000# payload package and HD towing and sold my F150 to our neighbor who loved the Platinum Ecoboost sitting in my drivway for a year.

Now we are legal and much safer towing our 30' flying cloud. It cost us some to do this change, but the ease and comfort with which the F250 handles the 30' is well worth it to us.

I don't advise anyone, just what we did. I did a lot of checking on TT accidents prior to making the switch and found that in many cases is not a majority if the accident is caused by the towing combination it is often attributed to overloading of the two vehicle, ie overloading of tires. Check the sticker on the door fame for an F150, you will be shocked at how little weight an F150 can carry in payload. Yes, I know much of the basis for the sticker is to reduce liability on the part of the tire manufacturer, but a good lawyer against the tow combination can win on that point alone.

Safe Travels.
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