2005 Tundra Doublecab TV

[Steve97365]

I'm picking up my new Safari 25 B on Monday. I plan to tow with a 2005 older generation Toyota Tundra with an Equalizer hitch/Sway control, and the towing package with a Voyager brake control. I know it's been asked and answered a bunch on this forum, but the truck is rated to tow 7300 and the dry wt. of the AS is 5060 with a GVWR of 7000 pounds.

We do live in the Pacific Northwest where there are hills and mountains almost everywhere you drive.

The tow vehicle is in great shape with only 31,000 miles.

Does anyone have experience towing a similar weight with a similar TV. I've been looking at used diesels online, but I like the reliability and general amenities of tjhe current TV. My major question is about hitch weight which on the AS is listed at 860 pounds. I have a class IV hitch.

Will I be unhappy with the towing performance of the Tundra, and should I buy new couch to sleep on while in I'm in the dog house because I need to convince unconvinced spouse that we now need a bigger truck after promising that once we got the new trailer all would be right with the World, the birds would chirp, the bees would buzz, and the sun would shine everyday all day.
What do you think?

[moosetags]

I tow a 2005 25FB. I weighed her just yesterday loaded for travel. She tips the scales at 7420#. That would put you over the TV's tow rating. It might make for a hard pull.

Brian

[azflycaster]

My 75 Trade Wind is about a thousand pounds lighter then your trailer. Before I bought 2nd generation Tundra, I towed it with a 2003 Tundra Access Cab with the 4.7 engine. I think you will find the Tundra lacking on the hills, but fine on the flats. If you are on an uphill and have to slow down, it will take a long time to regain the lost speed.

I traded up to a 2007 Tundra with the 5.7 motor and have not regretted it. The bigger engine makes all the difference. It also has better brakes and real tow mirrors.

[BillTex]

Welcome!
Loaded up you will have 1000# of TW easy...see Brians comments. Never mind firewood, bikes, you (Spouse...if she is still in this game!) dog, lunch, etc.
As you are now finding out, payload is the issue with 1/2 tons. Not tow capacity, hp, etc...

A 25', loaded up and ready to go, is 3/4 ton territory.

Time for a proper TV, or a smaller AS.

Bill

[Silvertwinkie]

You've been given some sage advice here. I would for sure pay close attention to what has been said in the posts prior to mine. They are ALL right on the money!

[Steve97365]

OK, so now I need a new tow vehicle. I doubt I can acquire one by Monday, so what now?

I still plan on getting hooked up and bringing it home with the current rig. If I go slow, so? It's about time I held up others like they've held me up. Just kidding! I'm a Good Sam member and painfully courteous on the road.

I figure once in my driveway, I can shop for a TV in a leisurely way and get the right deal in the process.

Reading similar threads, the consensus seems to be that a 3/4 ton Ford, Dodge, or Chevy would be preferable to a larger new Tundra. I don't mind buying used either, and maybe buying used would get me time off for good behavior in the dog house and on the couch. Boy is wife going to be ticked! The birds won't sing around here for a while.

Maybe I can buy the same color rig and she'll never know the difference!

Thanks for the replies even if they weren't what I wanted to hear.

[Silvertwinkie]

You could get by with a good new(er) 1/2 ton with 3.73s or 4.10s, but honestly, I was in a similar place to you and went 3/4. Burbs are great, but if a pickup, I know Chevys are really good and Ford owners swear by them as well. I have heard way too many transmission issues with Dodge. Strong engines, weak trans.

I would go slow particularly if you are going in mountains with that setup. I also had a Voyager and upgraded to the Prodigy...it was a night and day difference.

[BillTex]

You might make it home...you might not. I would not risk life/limb/$ but you have to determine your own tolerance for risk.

Perhaps a Bud with a better truck could pull it home for you?
Maybe the dealer will deliver?

Leave the Kids at home for this trip.

Bill

[moosetags]

Go ahead and tow it home with the Tundra and see how it feels. Just be careful.

Brian

[gordonp]

I have to strongly protest the recommendations that a tundra 4.7 is not capable of towing 7000-8000 lbs. My a/s is a 32' with wt of 7,100 lbs give/take. I load it lightly and carry aprox. 400 lbs in truck. I have pulled easily 50,000 miles over 3 years with my 2006 Tundra 4.7 in all weather conditions including rain and snow. Over 6 percent grades no problems. Keep the revs above 2000 using 3rd or 2nd gear and I still get to the top of the hill following many cars and certainly not holding traffic.

To me, the key is paying attention, looking ahead and keeping the revs up. Don't be afraid to use 2nd gear @ 3,500.

I acknowledge that the 4.7 is marginal...but it is also over built...as is the rest of the truck. Next tv is a toyota 5.7 and a/s 34'.

[Silvertwinkie]

I would simply say that most of the talk coming out of exceeding a manufacturers ratings typically come out of Canada, though I am not quite sure why.

Bottom line, you of course can do whatever you'd like, however I'd be reluctant in biting off more than the manufacturer claims it can chew. I really don't care if the rating is conservative or otherwise. If you get into trouble, one of the first things an insurance company is going to do is try to find a way not to pay a claim, let alone authorities looking for fault.

To me it's pretty simple math. You have a rated truck of 7k, a trailer that weighs about 7500lbs, and then you will add fuel, passengers and cargo far exceeding the tow rating (which is lowered by accessories, fuel, passengers and cargo) and **should** you get into an accident, what do you think at least part of the issue is going to be when you go to file your claim? I've talked with a few insurance agencies about this very question. Every answer was this: "We woud most likely be reluctant to pay a claim when negligence was involoved, but we'd most likely have to. The day the check was cut, it would be followed by a letter of insurance termination." We all know what happens next. You go to another insurer right? But when they ask who is your current carrier, and you have none, then they ask why and the whole process continues until you find a place that will insure you for nearly 5x what you were paying.

Same holds true for other hitching and towing gear. You don't buy a hitch with a 5k capacity for towing a 6k trailer. Sure it'll move it, might even stop it in an emerg situation. People who come out on this forum and say "Hey I'm doing it" make it neither right or safe. Case in point, folks who adamantly believe that towing a 34' Airstream with a Dodge Intrepid is safe. The car was never designed for that kind of application. Guess what country that whole thing started.....

As I have said, I have been where you are, and you are at a crossroad. This is not meant to scare you into thinking you need a semi to tow your trailer, you don't but I think you need more than you have since you are going to be in mountainous areas. I too at one point believed that my 1996 Impala SS that is basically a 1/2 ton car rated at 5k lbs tow capacity would tow my 25' Safari that tips the scales at over 6k lbs. Not that more than it was rated for right? Heck I beefed up the suspension, added coolers, deep pan this, deep pan that, better shocks 3.73s gears, more robust driveshaft, etc, etc, etc. Guess what eventually failed it wasn't the near 350hp engine, it wasn't the trans, the gears or anything in the driveline. Body bushings started to fail. Why? The rear end was designed for no more than 500lbs (10%) of the tow rating. Unless I reinforced the frame, and while I'm on the subject, lengthened the wheelbase (as my shorter wheelbase was an issue) there was no way, no matter what I did that this was going to be a good tow vehicle as it was for my 4500lb Bambi. I was also one of those people on this forum a few years back saying the same thing..."I do it" and boy was I wrong.

So, after seeing first hand a major wreck on the Interstate where an undersized tow vehicle with improper hitch gear jackknifed then rolled, I gave up on the Impala as my tow vehicle for the Safari and bought a Chevy Suburban rated at about 9500lbs and a 130" wheelbase. It was a night and day difference. This was an expensive lesson as I spent about $3k on upgrades for the Impala. However, the Impala is a real gem as a daily driver and I still use it to tow my boat (4000lbs), but she'll never yank around my Safari anymore. I mean seriously, you are spending big bucks on a trailer...why skimp on the tow vehicle? To me, my life and that of others around me just was not worth the possibility of what I saw that one day on the Interstate. Could it happen even with the Suburban? Sure it could, but I have done everything within my ability to make sure it doesn't. I couldn't say that with the Impala, both in towing exp and running the manufacturer's numbers.

Bottom line, use your common sense. Read everything here and draw your own conclusions.

[Steve97365]

I'm not one who reads all the advice and then goes out and does what I wanted to do in the first place. The reason I joined the forum and posted here is to receive answers from those with the experience and knowledge to give them.

That being said, I believe I need a new tow rig. I'm shopping now, but I probably will need to use my current Tundra to tow it from the dealership to home, a distance of about 60 miles. I'll stay on the back roads, and take it slow, and there aren't many hills. I realize it's kind of a gamble, but I don't have the time to procure a new TV by then, so I have to take my chances here.

I'm trying to fiind a late model diesel 3/4 truck, so weight pulling will not be a factor again. I've read pro's and con's for each, so I guess it will be up to availability and condition. I think the dealers should still be willing to deal, but I also know that they have the advantage here. I won't tell them time is of the essence, and that's one of the reasons I just want to get the AS safely home and in my driveway. After that, I'll have some time to negotiate a great deal(hopefully) on a newer, heavier truck, and maybe sell my Tundra instead of taking the trade-in hit that always seems to happen . Thanks again for your replies, advice, and concern. You're a great help!

[5T5]

Hey Silvertwinkie how can you generalize about Canada that way?
Oh right,I forgot:"simply said".
Kim

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by Steve97365

I believe I need a new tow rig

I'm trying to find a late model diesel 3/4 truck

"For your 25' Airstream", the Tundra may not be ideal but either is a used, 3/4 diesel pick up.

Airstream's tow very easily when set up optimally.
I would take my time with the purchase of a TV. Determine what is important. Handling, power, reliability, comfort, cost factor, etc.

There are some great article in this Tow Vehicle forum. Put your feet up and do some research. Forum members Andy R and Andrew T have been in the Airstream, and towing business for about 70 years between the 2 of them. Read their posts for some accurate, and enlightening TV information.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by Jet-Puf

Hey Silvertwinkie how can you generalize about Canada that way?
Oh right,I forgot:"simply said".
Kim

The posts don't lie.....there are literally thousands of threads with the same questions as Steve. I think you'll find that it's a fairly disproportionate number of folks from Canada. That's not to say all, but ask nearly anyone that has been here for at least 5 years and they'll probably tell ya the same thing. I couldn't make this kind of comedy up, trust me, I'm not all that creative.

Kim, you might be one of the exceptions to the rule.....22 footer with a Tundra is a great combo IMHO.

[Silvertwinkie]

I'm so not bashing Canadians, I'm merely pointing out what the content of the many threads I've encountered over the past 6 years here on this subject.

There are many things Canadians do far better that we here in the States could learn. Towing may sadly not be one of them though. In that realm I find I, like a fair number fair number of us here are on polar opposites on the subject.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

"For your 25' Airstream", the Tundra may not be ideal but either is a used, 3/4 diesel pick up.

Airstream's tow very easily when set up optimally.
I would take my time with the purchase of a TV. Determine what is important. Handling, power, reliability, comfort, cost factor, etc.

There are some great article in this Tow Vehicle forum. Put your feet up and do some research. Forum members Andy R and Andrew T have been in the Airstream, and towing business for about 70 years between the 2 of them. Read their posts for some accurate, and enlightening TV information.

aka; opinions.

Be aware, some Folks are knowledgeable.
Some are also vendors.

The common thread for most Folks here, is when you get to 25' or greater, it's time for a 3/4 TON.
Some get away with less.
I'll put the odds in my favor.
What is that cliche'; "better to have more truck than you need, than need more truck than you have"?

If you want to travel like a backpacker; saw off your toothbrush handle, package everything in plastic baggies, take only 1/2 a loaf of bread...you might do OK with a 1/2 ton. Although your numbers already suugest you are over your limits.
We like to leave home with full H2o, dog, bikes, kayaks, Kids, etc....this requires a 3/4 ton for our 25'.

If you have any intent of travelling lots of miles...get the 3/4 TON truck.(a 3/4 truck is what you have now).

If you are only going across town, pack light, and have your family meet you there...you might be OK.

Here's how we ended up with a 3/4 TON truck;
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...ice-28886.html


Bill

[Gene]

Steve, don't get stampeded into buying a new truck or a truck bigger than you need. Richard (azflycaster) towed with a 1st generation Tundra and is still alive. I've towed a 25' FB more than 9,000 miles with a 2nd generation Tundra with no problems, including over the Coast Range in Oregon, the Rockies and have passed cars on 11,000' passes in Colorado (used lots of gas, but was in a hurry). The first generation 4.7 L engines had more HP toward the end of the model run, so early and late models will do differently over the hills.

I tried to talk myself into keeping our '02 Tundra, but realized the 2nd gen. Tundra was a better match. My wife always says "yes" to a new truck, maybe your wife will too if you just say, "I'm sorry beautiful, I misjudged about the truck, and trucks are cheap now and a new Tundra will last a really, really long time. Do you like leather seats?" Do not forget the "beautiful" part!

We'll be in Canada in May for almost a week—can't wait to see those crazy Canadians towing trailers with riding mowers, 1955's VW's and mopeds.

Gene

[5T5]

Have a great time in Canada Gene, but beware there may still be some snowblowers out and about in May!
Kim

[Steve97365]

Wow! I didn't mean to cause a ruckus between folks from the "States" and those American's from up North.

I find all of the advice given worthwhile, and I thank you all for contributing whether from Canada or not.

I meant 3/4 TON truck, but I see I need to dot my tee's and cross my iii"s around here. Point taken though.

I do plan to take my time in negotiating on a different TV and do it right this time. I really thought I had done my homework well when I purchased the AS, but now I know that weight handling and towing ability are different items. At least I learned the lesson eventually.

The good news is loving, BEAUTIFUL wife of 40 years has said; "I just want you to be happy." Words that are music to my ears. I'm sure I'll pay later somehow. I always do. But in the meantime our marriage is still happy, and I won't need the couch. Yet.

The dog was going to charge me rent in the doghouse, so I'll potentially save money there too.