2002 F-250 7.3L diesel.. good, bad, ugly

[barts]

We have 190K miles on our 1996 4x4 crewcab 7.3 diesel.... maintenance
so far:

oil & filter changes (3-5k miles depending on towing or not)
transmission fluid every 30k miles or so since we started towing heavy.
diff fluids every so often
brakes, some front end parts replaced
windshields
tires
batteries

"unusual" items:

power steering hose
fuel pressure sensor ($30, was leaking)
1 starter
1 water pump
air filter housing (went with after market Tymar).

The best vehicle I've ever owned.

- Bart

[excellaf350]

Originally Posted by RVDreamer

I put over 200K miles on my 6.0 King Ranch. Never a problem. Only oil changes and new filters, tires, etc. No real expenses. I had great mileage and plenty of power.
Sometimes I think a lot of the complaints are blown out of proportion. Ford still is the top selling truck and the F-150 is the top selling vehicle period.
I now own a platinum 2013 F-250 super duty. I love it and couldn't be happier.

You were one of the lucky ones. There are more of you out there. But for every lucky one there were 20+ on the other side. When they run the 6.0 was and is and awesome motor. Just break too often. Ford was plagued with soooo many lawsuits over it they literally were single handed responsible for the success of gm and dodge diesels. Ford bought back hundreds of thousands of trucks in lemon law suits. One in particular in California I think they bought back over 500 trucks from one company. The trucks were and still are great trucks. The motor on the other hand is not.

My old 04 was retired at 237,000 miles. Left sitting with blown head gaskets and the crank case full of coolant. My work. spent over 35,000 in repairs to that truck under the hood alone during it's life. That's rediculious. Ad we had a fleet of over 50. Mine was one of the better ones

A friend of mine has a 2012 with the 6.7 and loves it. Runs great and no problems. 50,000 and counting.

[Taylormade]

Man, I typically stay out of a good 'ol 6.0 (six point oh no, six point blow) bashing, but I do want to say a few things in it's defense because there's a LOT of misinformation out there on it:

1. The 6.0 was a GREAT engine in design that was modified LATE by forced changes from the EPA emissions crew. International wanted nothing to do with the changes but Ford's hands were tied. Those changes were 60% of the 6.0s problems.

2. The 6.0 was NOT a good engine for fleet vehicles due to the fact that most of their life is spent idling. The 6.0 does not like to sit at idle. EGR clogs, oil cooler clogs, head gaskets blow... thanks for the above emissions changes.

3. Head studs are NOT required as part of the 6.0's bulletproofing.
4. You do NOT have to remove the cab to do headstuds on a 6.0.
5. If EGR and emissions changes were 60% of the 6.0's problems, at least 25% of the remaining are related to Ford's Gold coolant. Too many particulates mixed with the casting sand in the engine clog the oil cooler and you have blown head gaskets again.
6. There are hundreds of thousands of 6.0 owners out there that are completely ignorant to any of the problems their engine is famous for. I meet owners ALL THE TIME who have >150k on the clock and have done nothing but oil changes and know nothing of the problems plaguing others.


Disclaimer: this is written by a person with a 6.0 Excursion with 140k miles who bought it, and proactively replaced the oil cooler, deleted the EGR, added 4" exhaust, added a coolant filter and bought the SCT tuner along with 3 custom tunes and couldn't be happier.

I've spent less than $3k in engine "upgrades" and have a 23mpg on the highway unloaded, 15mpg pulling the 31' Sovereign beast that makes me grin an EVIL grin every time I step on the pedal.

So I thank everyone who wouldn't take the ambulance ride in it because the bad press allowed me to use it as a negotiating tool to buy my truck a lot cheaper. Do your homework, investigate the truck (there are dozens of forums and threads out there on how to pick a good 6.0) and you can be a lot safer if you don't buy a fleet truck.

Sorry for the derailment as I know this is off-topic, back to your 7.3 discussion.

[carl2591]

taylor,
that is good info for sure.. I understand the 2006 models (last year of the 6.0) were not all that bad.. like you did the mods for known stuff and you get a good TV.. your mileage figures do raise some eyebrow i can picture in TV land. 23 hwy and 15 towing sounds like you are walking the dog so to speak..

what would you say is your total weight for the rig when towing loaded trailer and truck and have you pulled further west than OK city..

love the evil grin thing.. i could get used to that my self

ps what year is you TV

[excellaf350]

the last year for the 6.0 was 08 I believe.

I dont think I am misinforming here. I am talking from first had experiences. Mine was a fleet vehicle. YES it did a lot of idle time. It had a PTO also. My PTO had 1200 hrs on it so do the math. Thats a lot of running (without driving) time. But the 6.0 was put in fleet trucks HD work and it cant handle the HD demands. I am happy your truck has treated you well. Seem like a lot of personal owned 6.0's were relatively trouble free. But I know some that were not. One of the Chevy guys I camp with had a 7.3 EX... loved it but it was totaled in an accident. So he bought another with the 6.0. stranded him and broke down on several occasions (less than 75k miles). He bought an 06 Duramax, 140k miles and hasnt been stranded once.

My fleet truck had its oil changed every 5k miles. I was religous with it. Took it to Ford for everything and every service. I literally lost track of the number of times it was towed in. No joke from about 160k-190k I think I drove it in for 2 oil changes the rest it was towed in for. Literally coundlt make it 5k miles without an engine failure of some sort.

They are fun to drive, sound bad ass IMO. Nothing like a noisy diesel! But for my money I wont buy a used 6.0. There is a reason the value of the truck with a V10 is higher than the same truck with a 6.0 diesel. If you are in the market for one the number 1 thing you need to look for is stay FAR away from a fleet truck. If it was personally owned and driven with not much weight in it daily then you can get it for cheap and can have a great truck. I will be glad to step aside and let you buy it, I will keep looking.

The 7.3 is only a "famous" engine cause the 6.0 was so terible.

Anyway back to topic, you will always get better mpg with a diesel over a gas eng. (like for like) you put out more upfront for one but you will tow easier and spend less per mile. The 7.3 is a great way to go because there are thousands of them out there to be looked over. But if you set up your gasser correctly and dont try to over do it you can be just as happy with a gas engine. Especially with newer models having 6+ speed transmissions. I heard recenetly that the Jeep Cherokee now has an optional 9 speed auto!!

[Taylormade]

I know that it seems like a stretch, but I'm telling you I just drove from Tampa to Topsail Beach, NC on 3/4 tank of gas and make it to Charlotte on less than that. I drive that truck fairly soft on the highway (keep it under 85) and when towing around 8k, I keep it at 65. I'm not using the Ford gauge, or "lie-ometer" as it's commonly referred to as, this is via hand calculations and by my Scangauge II OBDII reader on the SRL tune.

It's 100% true that I live in Florida and everything's at sea level and flat. My Ex is an 04 and the following is true for most turbo owners, but is true for ALL tuned 6.0 drivers.

[Taylormade]

Originally Posted by excellaf350

There is a reason the value of the truck with a V10 is higher than the same truck with a 6.0 diesel.

Perhaps in NJ, but in Florida and Georgia, the 6.0 commands a LOT more money than the V10 and it's not even close, even with all the bad juju out there.

[excellaf350]

I dont doubt the 15 mpg your getting.. Heck my bone stock 7.3 can get 14 here in NJ/NY. Ypstate in the hills its more like 12+ but those are some big boy hills there

Look I dont doubt there are 6.0's out there that are trouble free. there are 7.3's out there that are a disaster as well. Having watched a fleet of over 50 6.0's ranging from 03 to 07 I can tell you first hand they repair bills are more than double and some times tripple the rest of the fleet. Is is coincidence? Maybe... Im not a Ford hater I actually bought one myself. They make a good truck. My shop is also the local International dealer here in NJ and I can tell you horror stories about the international version as well. Round here the 6.0's do sell but its not uncommon to see an 05 lariat with 75k on the clock sit at a dealer for 6 months with an asking price of 19,500. They just dont bring that kind of money especially if the carfax says registered to a buisness. Many of them end up at teh auctions and the price just keeps dropping. They eventually sell but I wont buy one. Best things you can do are to replace the coolant, radiator, egr delete and stud it and make sure that overflow tank has a good cap and hasnt cracked. if it has over 100k when you buy it toss in a set of injectors and a FICM. They all go bad eventually. Its not if its when. 65% of our fleet broke the top tank on the rad and failed the FICM before 150k miles... injectors? make sure you use additives in your fuel regularly. the fleets never do and injector life is way to short. Part of our prob was that they only replace 1 at a time when tehy die. My truck was in the shop for injectors atleast 15 times. 1 at a time. if it were my truck I would just do the set while your in there. HPOP leaks and stuck wastegate (turbo vanes) are also common. They make great power when they stick but they blow the pipe right off the aftercooler with that much boost.


BTW, gut that cat and straight pipe it and when that turbo spools up, everyone knows it! they do sound awesome...

I run a scangauge II on my 7.3 as well they are great!

[carl2591]

Originally Posted by Taylormade

Man, I typically stay out of a good 'ol 6.0 (six point oh no, six point blow) bashing, but I do want to say a few things in it's defense because there's a LOT of misinformation out there on it:

1. The 6.0 was a GREAT engine in design that was modified LATE by forced changes from the EPA emissions crew. International wanted nothing to do with the changes but Ford's hands were tied. Those changes were 60% of the 6.0s problems.

2. The 6.0 was NOT a good engine for fleet vehicles due to the fact that most of their life is spent idling. The 6.0 does not like to sit at idle. EGR clogs, oil cooler clogs, head gaskets blow... thanks for the above emissions changes.

3. Head studs are NOT required as part of the 6.0's bulletproofing.
4. You do NOT have to remove the cab to do headstuds on a 6.0.
5. If EGR and emissions changes were 60% of the 6.0's problems, at least 25% of the remaining are related to Ford's Gold coolant. Too many particulates mixed with the casting sand in the engine clog the oil cooler and you have blown head gaskets again.
6. There are hundreds of thousands of 6.0 owners out there that are completely ignorant to any of the problems their engine is famous for. I meet owners ALL THE TIME who have >150k on the clock and have done nothing but oil changes and know nothing of the problems plaguing others.


Disclaimer: this is written by a person with a 6.0 Excursion with 140k miles who bought it, and proactively replaced the oil cooler, deleted the EGR, added 4" exhaust, added a coolant filter and bought the SCT tuner along with 3 custom tunes and couldn't be happier.

In watching the video by bill hewett on the 6.0L he recommend replacing head studs with new non "torque to yield type" so you can put more torque on them which helps prevent head gasket blow outs. He also talks about the EGR delete but was showing a way to preform it that to help prevent an engine code in the future.

I thought about and did a bit of reading on teh durmax and they have certain years and engine codes, like LLX or LLV? was the better code engine much like the 7.3 vs 6.0 etc..

still trying to figure out if diesel will be better over gas going forward. Long range plans at this point include 1st year of mainly going and seeing stuff with a 2 day or longer min stay policy and in sept heading to amazon for the christmas season to make some money for the road deal. So that will be maybe mid sept to dec 23 just sitting still, no towing.

My MIL spent a summer for two years at Yellowstone and one year at Glacier and my wife had the opportunity to travel both out with her and several time back from YS and Glacier and to spend several days at both locations and was really wanting us to get back to spend more time at these place to see the sites.

I don't forsee a lot of go go go towing. just mapping a route, getting on the road and going.. I have done some traveling out west some 20ish years ago when driving a semi-truck so I am familiar with the long hard pulls being loaded at some 78-80K lbs in a tractor with a 290 cummings hooked up to a 10 speed trans.. going in the right lane, getting into the power band and letting it dig is my way.. It uses less fuel and is less stressful on the equipment both gas or diesel.

SO that is what is making this gas vs diesel issues more complex. at least to me.

Do i want the power, MPG and maintenance issue of diesel or a bit less power and less maintenance, lower MPG and replacement cost with gasser..

[excellaf350]

By no means am I a duramax expert but I did a lot of research when I was in the market. Basically they first came out with the LB7... great engine but had its share of issues montly related to the fuel system and injectors. The Duramax was a common rail enigne from day one. Fuel quality and clenlyness is critical. the following enigne was the LLY and LBZ in 06/07. the LBZ is the most sought after it is 360 hp and 650 tq and has NO emissions equipment. I dont think you could go wrong with either though. After that was the LMM and LML which is the current production enigne (i think). Both great engines but do have all the DPF and emissions crap on them. The allison trans was only 5 speed with the originals but the LBZ (i think) it went to the 6 speed. The trans is bad to the bone and have relatively few issues. People love them cause they just dont break down and make great power. Im sure if you scour the internet you will find horror stories of them as well but in general they were great.

IMO the new gas engines coupled with the newer multi speed transmissions can be just as effective at towing as an older diesel. The maintence cost really arent that far apart. yes more oil and an extra fuel filter to change more often but its only a $100 for a service at the dealer. diy and you can do it for pretty cheap. the new gas motors are holding a lot more oil than before also. some as much at 8 qts.

if you tow or plan to tow more than say 5000 a year then i would suggest going diesel. if you dont mind cruising a little slower on the hills and pumping a few more gallons of gas in it then a god ol gasser will be just fine.

Have you thought about a 2500hd or f250 gasser... you can get the HD part with the gas engine best of both worlds.

[carl2591]

I have though abouit f-250 gasser, actually have a 2000 5.4L e-250 company van used for carpet cleaning duites and mileage is appx 12 -13 around town and that is a lot of interstate travel as well..

now the van weighs in at 7400 lbs with empty dump tank so it heavy but the 5.4 does a good job aroiund here,, not a lot of big hills for the most part. So a gasser is not out of question.

I was reading on kbb reviews on f-250 and most complaints were poor gas mileage with the diesel guys telling of 12-13 mpg towing SOBs and 19-20 non towing in places like mountains of tenn. So I guess its a toss up for teh most part..

Did found a unit in MD with under 120K the guy is looking for under 10K.. it was mom and step dads unit to pull 5er.. and local ford place did all maintenance on unit.
dollars it better on paper than gasser with same miles plus i tend to do my own oil changes myself anyways..

thanks for your info i do appreciate it.

[geodazed]

I have a 2002 f250 diesel which i use tow my 66 Tradewind. I love this motor! It has a reprogrammed chip and i run biodiesel in the summers here in western North Carolina. I get about 16-18 mpg in winding mountain roads, 20-22 mpg on interstate unloaded. I get 10 to 15 mpg towing depending on roads and speed. When i get over 65 towing i get about 10-12 mpg

[carl2591]

Originally Posted by geodazed

I have a 2002 f250 diesel which i use tow my 66 Tradewind. I love this motor! It has a reprogrammed chip and i run biodiesel in the summers here in western North Carolina. I get about 16-18 mpg in winding mountain roads, 20-22 mpg on interstate unloaded. I get 10 to 15 mpg towing depending on roads and speed. When i get over 65 towing i get about 10-12 mpg

how much does be biodiesel run per gallon and is it widely available? ALso when you use the bio does the mpg go up or down.

I see the 66 is a 24 footer.. how is the mpg when you hook the 31 fter up.. Love the western NC area.. we travel there a bit in the car.

PS want to sell the 2002.. ?? any one have one for sale.. i found one '99 2wd with 114K miles, one owner for 9400. but it was located in CO.. TOOOOO far for me to travel to look at.. but it was a good deal for sure.